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The DEA is trying to classify another plant as Schedule 1


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We have effectively a cure for depression, PTSD, and anxiety (and not merely a drug that masks the symptoms) and it (psilocybin) is illegal...

 

You're getting a little ahead of yourself there.

 

 

The data may not all be there yet even though it is trending that direction, but I'm pretty confident what is going to be found is that all psychedelics work better for those disorders than anything that came out of big pharma. Cannabis is better than probably any SSRI for those issues anyhow.

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with Merka's prescription opiate & benzo problems + big business, would any other outcome be a serious surprise?

 

still in shock that shrubbery got a legal foothold & thats the enigma really, a nation capable of radical thought & action is equally capable of epic retardation

 

making a plant illegal is a case in point, it must have been a socialist plant or summink

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We have effectively a cure for depression, PTSD, and anxiety (and not merely a drug that masks the symptoms) and it (psilocybin) is illegal...

 

You're getting a little ahead of yourself there.

 

 

The data may not all be there yet even though it is trending that direction, but I'm pretty confident what is going to be found is that all psychedelics work better for those disorders than anything that came out of big pharma. Cannabis is better than probably any SSRI for those issues anyhow.

 

 

Very possible but that is not my personal experience and presumably there are many like me who are only made worse by psychedelics.  All I'm saying is it's not some catch all miracle cure and there is propaganda on both sides

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We have effectively a cure for depression, PTSD, and anxiety (and not merely a drug that masks the symptoms) and it (psilocybin) is illegal...

 

You're getting a little ahead of yourself there.

 

 

The data may not all be there yet even though it is trending that direction, but I'm pretty confident what is going to be found is that all psychedelics work better for those disorders than anything that came out of big pharma. Cannabis is better than probably any SSRI for those issues anyhow.

 

 

Very possible but that is not my personal experience and presumably there are many like me who are only made worse by psychedelics.  All I'm saying is it's not some catch all miracle cure and there is propaganda on both sides

 

 

But the data already shows that SSRI's are pretty ineffective (and dangerous) and they are the major drug class being pushed for these disorders whereas entheogens are shown to be highly effective albeit having a higher associated risk if administered improperly. How much higher is difficult to quantify. Further you did not experiment with lsd in a setting that is conducive to beneficial results. You just took it on your own in an unsafe environment. That's hardly evidence to the contrary.

 

Ketamine is already being used in US doctors offices to treat depression btw

Edited by AdieuErsatzEnnui
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We have effectively a cure for depression, PTSD, and anxiety (and not merely a drug that masks the symptoms) and it (psilocybin) is illegal...

 

For me, that sums it all up

It helps tremendously with depression and anxiety. Perfect thing to cash grab on, am I right?

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Lacks addiction potential because withdrawals are incredibly mild.

i didn't get this, what is the relation between addiction and withdrawal?

Yeah, I wrote that pretty quickly without much explaination. Most opiate addicts I've known have been terrified of withdrawals. It's hard for lots of drug addicts of different vices to cope and function without the drugs they use and it can lead them right back into the cycle of abuse, snowballing into becoming a thieving, shiftless asshole.

 

I've seen Kratom used by people in an 'addict' like fashion without the intense physical withdrawals that come from harder opiates so that people who wish to seek help can wean off easier and become clean. So yeah it's still addicting in a sense, but the lack of high after abuse and lack of withdrawals can greatly decrease dependency, at least in a physical sense

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I've seen Kratom used by people in an 'addict' like fashion without the intense physical withdrawals that come from harder opiates so that people who wish to seek help can wean off easier and become clean. So yeah it's still addicting in a sense, but the lack of high after abuse and lack of withdrawals can greatly decrease dependency, at least in a physical sense 

Er, just so you know, and for anyone reading. The perfect thing to take for kratom withdrawal, in my case, is loperamide. Literally makes 90% of withdrawals go away. The fatigue is still there, however and I don't have the most energy, though it makes withdrawals VERY tame.

 

You can get it at walmart. What I did was start with 30 mg (15 2 mg pills), and just go down 1/2 a day. Started going down like 2/3 a day when I hit 20. Withdrawals were pretty painless. What it does, it feed the receptors in your gut, but not brain. So there's no cognitive effect, however your body does feel slightly relaxed.

 

Just redose once a day. The effect lasts a long time. Try to time the dosage right when you get up, or in my case I set an alarm 3 hours before I got up, and took it. The reason is because it takes a few hours to kick in.

 

From what I understand, it works with most people, but it's not a guarentee it'll work for others. And if it sorta kinda works, then you can always take a few more. Of course don't go overboard. 

 

 

 

 

I keep reading 'plant' in the title of this thread as 'planet'

oh yeah, I love huffing the methane gas on titan.

Edited by Brisbot
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Lacks addiction potential because withdrawals are incredibly mild.

i didn't get this, what is the relation between addiction and withdrawal?
Yeah, I wrote that pretty quickly without much explaination. Most opiate addicts I've known have been terrified of withdrawals. It's hard for lots of drug addicts of different vices to cope and function without the drugs they use and it can lead them right back into the cycle of abuse, snowballing into becoming a thieving, shiftless asshole.

 

I've seen Kratom used by people in an 'addict' like fashion without the intense physical withdrawals that come from harder opiates so that people who wish to seek help can wean off easier and become clean. So yeah it's still addicting in a sense, but the lack of high after abuse and lack of withdrawals can greatly decrease dependency, at least in a physical sense

The withdrawals fucking suck actually, I speak from experience. Didn't sleep for damn near a week, and yeah besides that the physical part isn't so bad but the constant anxiety and hopelessness lasted about a month.

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Lacks addiction potential because withdrawals are incredibly mild.

i didn't get this, what is the relation between addiction and withdrawal?
Yeah, I wrote that pretty quickly without much explaination. Most opiate addicts I've known have been terrified of withdrawals. It's hard for lots of drug addicts of different vices to cope and function without the drugs they use and it can lead them right back into the cycle of abuse, snowballing into becoming a thieving, shiftless asshole.

 

I've seen Kratom used by people in an 'addict' like fashion without the intense physical withdrawals that come from harder opiates so that people who wish to seek help can wean off easier and become clean. So yeah it's still addicting in a sense, but the lack of high after abuse and lack of withdrawals can greatly decrease dependency, at least in a physical sense

The withdrawals fucking suck actually, I speak from experience. Didn't sleep for damn near a week, and yeah besides that the physical part isn't so bad but the constant anxiety and hopelessness lasted about a month.

 

 

How much were you taking? Just wondering.

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Clarification -- Compared to typical opiates, some loss of sleep and general hate for life until your dopamine reuptake regulates itself pales in comparison when placed next to people I've known detoxing from heroin or dilly's.

 

I'm just going off what a few people I know have said. Either way, I have to side with the 'not dangerous enough or insidious enough to schedule to the highest rank'... I also have to wonder how much was being taken and how often.

 

About the loperamide - the line between getting comfy with withdrawals and toxicity is very thin. While it for sure deals with a great deal of the side effects, it's not the best thing for you in any way. Besides, I've heard it blocks you up more than any opiate and you won't shit for weeks haha

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Info Dump about loperimide, kratom withdrawal(and to an extent, an actual dangerous drug like hydrocodone) for those interested, based on my own experience, otherwise ignore:

Well that's why you should research it first, look up toxicity levels, and not just follow the instructions of the first guy who told you about it on the internet (me). Google it, you should become comfortable with the amount of info before taking it.

I'm just telling anyone here taking it that it's an option, then they should research it before jumping in. That's also why I recommended taking 30 mg and going down 2/4 mg a day.

You CAN get loperamide withdrawal, but it's so easy to get and cheap that this really shouldn't be an issue. Also, you're done dosing in 2 weeks, and every day you're taking less. BTW, lope withdrawal is as bad as an actual opiate withdrawal. Kratom isn't nearly as bad as actual opiates. You can die from heroin withdrawal, you can't from kratom. At most I felt somewhat uncomfortable, and just watched shows to pass the time.

You can get a slight opiate high taking about 100 mg+ a day. Though obviously that will lead to tolerance and dependence. 

I remember reading that the toxicity level of loperamide is VERRRY high, you have to take a LOT.. multiple grams... probably one of the reasons it's an over the counter drug. You'd probably throw it up WELL before you could kill yourself. HOWEVER, I remember reading up that lope dependence, like dependence on any opiate, can and has lead to liver damage after taking 80+mg for years in multiple cases. So be responsible. 

Loperamide is the second most recommended thing usually by people who are going cold turkey. If you have a job/responsibilities, either take a few days off work, as kratom withdrawal lasts for about 5 days, or get some loperimide and take it for a week or two. That is the two best things I think you can do. Lope is the most painless thing you can do.

If you can, cycling off kratom is probably the very best thing you can do. If you have semi bad self control like me, you could get a family member to only allow you so much a day. I didn't really need that though.

So my 'testamonial' is: I cycled off kratom to where I was taking half my daily dosage (about 9 or 10 grams) THEN I took lope for 2 weeks and a half. The 'slight' body high was more my body feeling normal after feeling withdrawals. It felt like a high when looking back it was just my body feeling normal.

This was a year ago. I started taking kratom again a few months ago and am currently cycling off.

ONE MORE THING: I was never stopped up, however things were.. a little harder to get out. I've read that you may wanna get a stool softener while on loperamide. Kratom has never stopped me up, ever.

ANOTHER ONE MORE THING: Supposedly the lope thing works for actual opiates as well. I have talked to a few people on the forums who have been addicted to heroin, hydro... uh.. and others. Though it doesn't work as well , but they take some of the edge off.
 

Edited by Brisbot
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Well, it's all the same thing. You may be taking more in the tea than you think.

 

Though you might have gotten some low grade kratom, or old kratom.

 

I don't think it is. When you take pills you consume every bit of powder. When you prepare it as tea you definitely don't consume ever bit of powder as there's still plenty in the kettle when you're finished. There also might be a reduction in the alkaloid content due to the heat as well. I don't know how stable they are, and whether or not the brewing process is enough to reduce potency.

 

And yeah my Kratom is old because I don't take it that often, but I store it in the fridge.

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Oh yeah, the tea isn't as effective. However I've tried all kinds of kratom from different vendors, and the quality varies a LOOOOT.

I myself just toss and wash. It's faster that way. 

Er, well, some vendors will sell you kratom they've had for 2 years. By then it's kinda useless. 

Edited by Brisbot
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"On June 9, 2015, FDA announced an import alert for kratom, issuing guidance that shipments are to be seized without physical examination from several vendors listed due to concerns that kratom poses a risk of illness or injury, stating that "[C]onsumption of kratom can lead to a number of health impacts, including respiratory depression, nervousness, agitation, aggression, sleeplessness, hallucinations, delusions, tremors, loss of libido, constipation, skin hyperpigmentation, nausea, vomiting, and severe withdrawal signs and symptoms."

 

I'm willing to bet that there is at least one if not more drugs out there  on the market with those exact side effects.  

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I learned a lot from this thread.

 

How the fuck do you drink kratom tea adieu?? I've done lots of toss and wash and caps. Drank the slurry once or twice and the flavor of the alkaloids and leaf was too much. Does hit harder tho

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I learned a lot from this thread.

 

How the fuck do you drink kratom tea adieu?? I've done lots of toss and wash and caps. Drank the slurry once or twice and the flavor of the alkaloids and leaf was too much. Does hit harder tho

 

Well, partly because in my efforts to become healthier I've consumed a lot of disgusting things, and I've built a tolerance to it. But I also mix it with Teavana tea which is many times stronger than your average tea, especially anything that isn't loose leaf. 

 

Apple Cider Vinegar and salt water, extracts mixed with grain alcohol, liposomal glutathione, and GABA tinctures are all a lot more disgusting that kratom.  

 

After drinking ounces of trichocereus cacti everything else pales in comparison.

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I never feel I'm getting the full effect with the toss and wash method. Sometimes even no effect at all, feels like a waste of kratom.

 

Best results have been mixing it into a milkshake or mixing it into a bowl of apple sauce and slowly munching on each mouthful.

 

I don't know whether it's something in these specific food stuffs that works especially well in bringing about the effects of kratom, or the fact that the kratom is more in contact with the inside of the mouth, but the difference between ingesting it like this and the toss n wash method is huge.

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