the watmm GAS thread

[modey]

Where do you guys buy the time generators to play around with all these toys? All you guys semi-unemployed or what?

I recently switched to a 9-day fortnight, with my day off (every second Wednesday) dedicated to creative stuff. Usually that's my chance to do a video. My partner is also away visiting her sister every second Friday night (stays overnight) so that also gives me a chance to spend a good amount of time working on music.

 

Other than that it's usually as soon as I get home from work for an hour or two until it's time to make dinner, which is usually enough time to have a quick nanoloop/pocket operator jam or something else not requiring much effort. I don't have as much time as I did when I was living by myself, but it's getting better, and we're home owners now, so I can actually fit out my studio with more permanent features.. so that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

[TubularCorporation]

 

 

Where do you guys buy the time generators to play around with all these toys? All you guys semi-unemployed or what?

Between 8 and 1130pm weekdays

 

 

Same, I also have a band where I play the drums but other than that I actually have no social life. This is Japan so it's OK. 

 

 

Having a social life is so 20th century.

[sweepstakes]

I just got this season's editing check this afternoon, took to eBay and the only s-1000 on there now is over $900.

 

Nope.

The fuck? Really? I mean I figured that hardware samplers would get inflated sooner or later but that's bananas for a rack sampler with really not that much mojo going on. 

[thawkins]

 

I just got this season's editing check this afternoon, took to eBay and the only s-1000 on there now is over $900.

 

Nope.

The fuck? Really? I mean I figured that hardware samplers would get inflated sooner or later but that's bananas for a rack sampler with really not that much mojo going on. 

 

 

There's one S-1000 that seems to be working somewhat on Japanese Yahoo Auctions for around $10.. (https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q211283924).

 

Edit: also a S3000XL for $50 http://fiveg.net/?pid=129529867

Edited May 23, 2018 by thawkins

[sweepstakes]

 

 

I just got this season's editing check this afternoon, took to eBay and the only s-1000 on there now is over $900.

 

Nope.

The fuck? Really? I mean I figured that hardware samplers would get inflated sooner or later but that's bananas for a rack sampler with really not that much mojo going on. 

 

 

There's one S-1000 that seems to be working somewhat on Japanese Yahoo Auctions for around $10.. (https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q211283924).

 

Edit: also a S3000XL for $50 http://fiveg.net/?pid=129529867

 

At five G no less! I swear that place is named after their average vintage keyboard price.

[thawkins]

 

 

 

I just got this season's editing check this afternoon, took to eBay and the only s-1000 on there now is over $900.

 

Nope.

The fuck? Really? I mean I figured that hardware samplers would get inflated sooner or later but that's bananas for a rack sampler with really not that much mojo going on. 

 

 

There's one S-1000 that seems to be working somewhat on Japanese Yahoo Auctions for around $10.. (https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q211283924).

 

Edit: also a S3000XL for $50 http://fiveg.net/?pid=129529867

 

At five G no less! I swear that place is named after their average vintage keyboard price.

 

 

Yeah the first time I went there I was really hopeful I could score something cool for cheaps. Turns out all I had money for were spare parts or a patch bay.

Then I thought about it for a little bit and well it does make sense that a shop that specialises in maintenance and sales of vintage gear probably just might have a good idea of the actual worth of things and it's not some garage sale where some dumbass sells a Moog modular for $5 because who needs an analog switchboard anymore, dunno why ol grandad kept it very neatly stored, huh.

[TubularCorporation]

EDIT: ok, I couldn't resist putting in a bid on the s1000 at that price, even if it goes up to my maximum bid, plus the cost of shipping overseas, plus the cost of a step-down mains transformer, it would still be about half the typical US price for one of those things right now.  US prices on hardware are getting really stupid, it reminds me of what I've heard about a period sometime around 2009 or 10 when CZ-101's got really popular in a lot of EU countries but were hard to find local and most US sellers wouldn't ship overseas, so legend has it if you were willing to deal with the risks of shipping a keyboard overseas you could get a 101 in the USA for around $100 back then but the going price in the EU was closer to $600 (which is WAAAY to much).

 

 

thawkins, you should start a side business buying 90s samplers locally, and then selling them on US eBay bundled with a 120v-100v step-down transformer.  The going rates for Japanese synths on US ebay these days seem to be around 80% of the typical US prices.

Edited May 23, 2018 by RSP

[thawkins]

That side business idea sounds pretty doable actually, except I don't know all that much about what gear is worth something and don't have a lot of experience with electronics to properly assess whether something requires just a simple soldering job or a full rebuild or is only good for parts.

 

One of the reasons definitely NOT to start this side business is that it then becomes impossible to resist any GAS because you'll always always have that excuse "I'll just sell it for profit later" and then before I know it, my apartment is full of misery and broken junk.

[sweepstakes]

US prices on hardware are getting really stupid

Which is pretty silly since we're absolutely swimming in great new/new-ish gear right now. I have approximately zero interest in vintage hardware these days; I really do not see the point.

[auxien]

https://youtu.be/LOYsIKtDBt0

 

Haven’t looked up any info on this Moogfest exclusive but that video is rrreeeeaaallllllllllllllyyyyy quite interesting.

And I was right, this thing looks fucking sweet.

 

https://youtu.be/GA_JpeAiWhs

[TubularCorporation]

 

US prices on hardware are getting really stupid

Which is pretty silly since we're absolutely swimming in great new/new-ish gear right now. I have approximately zero interest in vintage hardware these days; I really do not see the point.

 

 

The flip side is that there is so much great old stuff out there why should we keep making new stuff?  Good tools don't actually become obsolete.

 

And "stupid" is all relative, I'm mostly juts bitter that I missed out on classic samplers being massively undervalued, you'd still have to spend thousands of dollars to get something modern that was at all comparable to what a last-generation sampler from the end of the 90s can do.

 

But yeah, there's plenty of good new hardware out there too, not better just different.

Edited May 24, 2018 by RSP

[TubularCorporation]

At any rate, I've gotten a lot more out of an old DR660 with a few pads that are starting to fail and an SP303 with janky knobs than I have out of the Octarack this year.  Which isn't to say one's better than the other and the Octatrack is still one of the most inspiring tools I've ever used and one of the last things I'd consider getting rid of, but there's a lot to be said for simplicity sometimes.

 

And I've never heard anything that sounds like the 303 in lo-fi sampling mode.

Edited May 24, 2018 by RSP

[sweepstakes]

Even the phrase samplers nowadays blow the 90s stuff out of the water. I've had an SP202 and an SU10 and I used to lust for the S20. The Volca Sample and PO-33 are just way ahead in capabilities, portability, fun, and in the case of the volca, MIDI spec... and you can buy both together for less than pretty much any vintage gear! Not to mention the volca is one of the best-sounding samplers I've ever laid ears on, and there have been a few.

 

I've had 3 different rack samplers and they all had had god-awful interfaces. Each of them had something or other to offer but I don't miss them much now. I do still have a Mirage which has probably the worst interface of any sampler I've used (except maybe the A5000 with its stupid knobs) but it makes up for it with resonant analog filters and a grunginess that makes the SK1 blush. It's pretty special and I just don't feel that way about 99% of the used sampler market. Aside from a < $400 ASR-10, count me out!

[Braintree]

 

 

Haven’t looked up any info on this Moogfest exclusive but that video is rrreeeeaaallllllllllllllyyyyy quite interesting.

And I was right, this thing looks fucking sweet.

 

 

 

It sounds great, and I love the idea, but was it worth $1500?

 

I mostly ask this because I'm debating going for the engineer ticket for Moogfest 2019

[TubularCorporation]

Even the phrase samplers nowadays blow the 90s stuff out of the water. I've had an SP202 and an SU10 and I used to lust for the S20. The Volca Sample and PO-33 are just way ahead in capabilities, portability, fun, and in the case of the volca, MIDI spec... and you can buy both together for less than pretty much any vintage gear! Not to mention the volca is one of the best-sounding samplers I've ever laid ears on, and there have been a few.

 

I've had 3 different rack samplers and they all had had god-awful interfaces. Each of them had something or other to offer but I don't miss them much now. I do still have a Mirage which has probably the worst interface of any sampler I've used (except maybe the A5000 with its stupid knobs) but it makes up for it with resonant analog filters and a grunginess that makes the SK1 blush. It's pretty special and I just don't feel that way about 99% of the used sampler market. Aside from a < $400 ASR-10, count me out!

 

I can't think of a modern polyphonic sampler outside of very expensive workstation keyboards.  maybe that will change eventually with hardware coming back, but software pretty much killed them.

 

 

I've mostly used Akai smplers which are some of the easiest but for efficiency I'd take a 3000 series Akai over any software sampler I've used.  But that's a matter of preference, I just find that period of Akai hardware has a really efficient workflow for me.

 

I was working completely OOB with an MPC 2000 based setup (the MPC, one keyboard, a mixer and a few rack synths) and I could finish an entire alum worth of stuff in the time it takes me to finish one track since I moved back to using a DAW, and I feel like I was working to a higher standard in terms of writing and arrangement.  The only reason I went back to multitrack DAW recording is that I don't and probably never will have the space or income to have the hardware I'd need to do the sort of mixing I want to do these days, and the cost of recording digitally is so low now that it wasn't even really a choice for me.

 

 

The tools don't really matter, there is a ton of good stuff out there old and new and people have done great work (and a whole lot of terrible work) on all of it.  For me, older equipment is fun and inspiring and I do better work with it.  The mid 90s hybrid project studio is just a paradigm that works really well for me, and I've got absolutely no interest in being "current" (or "retro" either), I just work with the most pleasing stuff I have access to.

 

EDIT: if the PO-33 can do what an Akai s5000 can do then I should get one, because that's pretty amazing.  The Octatrack certainly can't do what an s5000 can, not even close (although it can do some things the S5000 can't, too, they're just completely different tools that don't even make sense to compare)

Edited May 24, 2018 by RSP

[auxien]

It sounds great, and I love the idea, but was it worth $1500?

 

I mostly ask this because I'm debating going for the engineer ticket for Moogfest 2019

Haha I mean I'm sure that would be fun but you still have to buy whatever special thing they have there too...I'd hope at a discount? I think they're doing new stuff each year so who knows what they'll have there next year. 

 

Hopefully this actually hits a full release though, could sure be worth the ~$600 price point the DFAM/etc are going at.

[sweepstakes]

I was working completely OOB with an MPC 2000 based setup (the MPC, one keyboard, a mixer and a few rack synths) and I could finish an entire alum worth of stuff in the time it takes me to finish one track since I moved back to using a DAW, and I feel like I was working to a higher standard in terms of writing and arrangement. 

I still have my MPC1000 and I agree, that MPC workflow is exceptionally efficient. I think it has a lot to do with what you can't do on an MPC, where you have to suck it up and say, well, how can I at least get close or get the gist of the idea down? Because unless you have a very specific (i.e. brittle) idea, you can probably get pretty damn close.

 

if the PO-33 can do what an Akai s5000 can do then I should get one, because that's pretty amazing.  The Octatrack certainly can't do what an s5000 can, not even close (although it can do some things the S5000 can't, too, they're just completely different tools that don't even make sense to compare)

Definitely not. I was comparing them to the phrase samplers of the 90s - the cheap, limited, often battery powered ones. The PO33 has no MIDI, is mono, and has 40 seconds of sample time. But it's more immediate than just about anything but an SK-1, and it literally fits in your pocket. Similar to the MPC but obviously stripped way down (which often makes it even more immediate)

 

Totally agree on working with what's comfortable. I just have no interest in craning my neck to menu dive on a rack module anymore.

 

It is too bad that there isn't really a modern polyphonic/multitimbral standalone sampler (except maybe that MPC Live which is too computer-like to appeal to me, or maybe a synth like the Blofeld or that new Dave Smith thing) but there's lots of good reasons for such a thing to be integrated with a sequencer. 

[Polytrix]

I can't really comment in this thread as I don't own any standalone external synths but when I have the money I'm definitely just going to buy some batshit crazy new synth...analogue or digital I just feel there is so much amazing stuff out now that vintage fetishism doesn't really make sense.

[Guest Chesney]

Parts of it does not make sense for sure. The price hikers, the hoarders and collectors that don't actually play them. However, while there are lots of new amazing instruments, many copying the old and thankfully some are starting to look at new angles in synthesis, the vintage gear still has a place as they have definitely not been replaced sonically. New analogue is new analogue and old is old, they do sound different, but of course, it's sometimes subtle just like the difference between brand timbres. 

old and new are still viable to musicians who seek specific sounds.

[Polytrix]

Got ya! Well said.

Personally, I'm more interested in the future of synthesis. I would probably be very happy with some crazy digital synth that just makes crazy timbres.

[xox]

I understand that i may be very lonly in this feeling...but itz sad to me that 15 yrs after its introduction the monomachine still remains the most interesting hw synth on the market... now only as a second-hand tho

Edited May 24, 2018 by xox

[Polytrix]

Personally I'd love the Monomachine, seems to do all I'd need from the looks of it. This is probably a major fool question to ask but I'm assuming with all of these Elektron boxes you can hook up an external midi keyboard right?

[Guest]

I understand that i may be very lonly in this feeling...but itz sad to me that 15 yrs after its introduction the monomachine still remains the most interesting hw synth on the market... now only as a second-hand tho

I'm obviously part of the choir on this as well, but I think we're biased! ;)

 

I can't really give an informed opinion since I haven't played with much when it comes to hardware or even other Elektron machines. I've gotten the impression that people generally see the MnM as thin and difficult to warm up to. And I've been told it's not really an instantly gratifying machine compared to the A4 or RYTM, but I suspect most people aren't into deep diving into the synthesis of the MnM. The presets certainly were not very interesting either, imo. I would say that it's a good machine to practice your chops on patch building.

[Guest Chesney]

It really is and to be honest, the majority of people that used it may have not taken it into the crazy territories it's capable of.

 

Edit, i'd say all the machines are similar. The MD drums are pretty bland, the Mono is kinda flat, the raw oscs on the A4 are really uninspiring and not had enough time on the Rytm. If you are using Elektron machines for standard dance music, I can see why people can't get on with them, on the face of them, they are pretty meh. But we all know that they come alive very quickly when you veer off the beaten paths.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Chesney

[Guest]

Well, the MnM does have all the parts needed for people to make good dance, techno, house, and EDM patches, but they need to be massaged a bit. I did have a bit of trouble getting an interesting bass sound when playing with it at first. It's probably is easier to go into more experimental and noisier territory since the LFOs are so freely assignable to most if not all parameters and it's always tempting to see what happens when you do! However, things get interesting in the smaller changes and the finer details, so to me the MnM has grown to be more of a comforting wife than an exciting lover. :)