the watmm GAS thread

[chim]

2 hours ago, Nil said:

Nice !

Coïncidence, my father in law kindly gave me a Neumann U87A a couple of weeks ago. He used it for voice-overs, for the corporate / institutional movies he directed for a living.

 

Your in-law likes you! Mine got me a burger press...

[Nil]

@Squee to be totally honest I've yet to discover the Neumann's strengths and quirks. I've read it's quite a nice all rounder ! Wife and I have to figure out if / what to write lyrics about (she definitely can sing). The SM7B was super appealing because of its alleged forgiveness regarding room acoustics. I'll simply move my 2 mobile acoustic panels around when recording. 

@chim yes hehe, we get along really, really well. He's a really nice guy, always been fascinated by sound (wanted to be a sound-engineer). Quite a generous person, he once gave a Minimoog to a friend of his (he got the MM decades ago, mostly used it for SFX)... 

Aside from that, my GAS is quite inexistent these days. Getting the tones I want out of Razor, Bazille and Hive 2, being totally covered regarding FXs (creative and utilitarian) and DAW. Might need to buy a Push 2 for work and maybe a powerful mobile rig for future live-coded, RT synthesis gigs (so freaking intensive CPU-wise, but I don't want to compromise the audio quality)... but there's no rush at all. Will certainly sell my Boutiques soonish too.

[Squee]

21 minutes ago, Nil said:

@Squee to be totally honest I've yet to discover the Neumann's strengths and quirks. I've read it's quite a nice all rounder ! Wife and I have to figure out if / what to write lyrics about (she definitely can sing). The SM7B was super appealing because of its alleged forgiveness regarding room acoustics. I'll simply move my 2 mobile acoustic panels around when recording.

Yeah, you probably already know this, but the SM7B is actually a dynamic mic, so that definitely helps with the acoustics. But it also requires a ton of power. I recommended it to a client who I produce some stuff for and hadn't thought about this so the first couple of interviews he did were barely audible and the internal noise from his recorder overshadowed everything when the recording got boosted.. I ended up buying him a Triton Audio FetHead. I had no idea this was a thing, but it works like a charm.

[auxien]

3 hours ago, thawkins said:

It's that time of year again where I feel I want a more or less lightweight standalone MIDI sequencer so I could do some old-school pure MIDI arrangements and have a more accessible hands-on workflow.

List of features:

• (mandatory) no need to stop playback to add new MIDI parts. Basically you can build a track from scratch without stopping the sequencer.
• step-based recording
• real-time recording
• edit clips, mute notes during playback
• (nice to have) working with MIDI patterns or clips, but recording the whole track at the same time (kind of like Live arrangement recording)
• should be small form factor

Is there anything you guys know that rings a bell and checks a few of these boxes?

Stupid me is thinking MPC1000 again, but those don't let you record new MIDI while keeping the sequencer running, right?

Squarp Pyramid (or maybe their Hermod can do this all too, not sure, but you’d need a small Eurorack enclosure for it)

Social Entropy Engine can do some/all of that iirc, been a while since I looked at its features tho.

Elektron Octatrack/Digitakt

Launchpad maybe?

obv Maschine or Push, w/ a computer

and older stuff which I’m not too familiar with and many are large/in need of repairs/backup issues/lacking more modern niceties/etc.

[xox]

As some reviewer said, buying quality stuff like Neumann products (i have their speakers and headphones) is actually an investment in your education; you can finally learn from experience what quality really means.

[Nil]

Definitely. Less is more... and better is better When I went for the Amphion monitors years ago, it confirmed it 100%. I feel like I have a minimalistic set-up without much persisting GAS thanks to such quality monitoring : hearing things usefully, and making them sound right is key to me, and now I can do the same with recording. I’m a lucky fellow.

[thawkins]

22 minutes ago, auxien said:

Squarp Pyramid (or maybe their Hermod can do this all too, not sure, but you’d need a small Eurorack enclosure for it)

Social Entropy Engine can do some/all of that iirc, been a while since I looked at its features tho.

Elektron Octatrack/Digitakt

Launchpad maybe?

obv Maschine or Push, w/ a computer

and older stuff which I’m not too familiar with and many are large/in need of repairs/backup issues/lacking more modern niceties/etc.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I already have a Push, so I am thinking about something that could be used without a laptop.

Social Entropy Engine looks like a Cirklon, and seems to be quite nice in terms of usability and not too much advanced complex features. Similar to the Cirklon, it seems to be out of stock everywhere unless the guys are really not interested in selling it.

I don't know about Elektron gear. They certainly seem interesting but also quite deep and complex to use. 

Pyramid looks really interesting though. I don't know why I always put it in the same box as the Elektrons, namely being really expensive and really complex.

And I know myself enough that probably all that I achieve with these posts is to figure out that no, the answer is not buying some gear but just doing things with what I have already.

 

Stop this bullshit! You know you need it for learning your hardware synths more intimately. You have worked hard, you have earned this prize. Do you want to play live sets with your laptop like a chump forever? Come on, be cool for once in your life - go DAWless.

[TubularCorporation]

5 hours ago, thawkins said:

Stupid me is thinking MPC1000 again, but those don't let you record new MIDI while keeping the sequencer running, right?

I can't speak for the 1000 but I assume you can record new MIDI with the sequencer running in it because you can in the 2000.

[auxien]

5 hours ago, thawkins said:

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I already have a Push, so I am thinking about something that could be used without a laptop.

Social Entropy Engine looks like a Cirklon, and seems to be quite nice in terms of usability and not too much advanced complex features. Similar to the Cirklon, it seems to be out of stock everywhere unless the guys are really not interested in selling it.

I don't know about Elektron gear. They certainly seem interesting but also quite deep and complex to use. 

Pyramid looks really interesting though. I don't know why I always put it in the same box as the Elektrons, namely being really expensive and really complex.

And I know myself enough that probably all that I achieve with these posts is to figure out that no, the answer is not buying some gear but just doing things with what I have already.

 

Stop this bullshit! You know you need it for learning your hardware synths more intimately. You have worked hard, you have earned this prize. Do you want to play live sets with your laptop like a chump forever? Come on, be cool for once in your life - go DAWless.

lol

the Elektrons can be a touch tricky (OT especially) but to me they’re not so bad once you get past the initial little curve. that said I’ve not actually owned and OT or a Digitakt so I’m basing my rambling on other Elektron experience, what others say, and video explainers. 
 

if you think the Elektrons are tricky, the Pyramid is a whole other level. really gotta twist your brain hard to get into it IMO. I’ve had mine for about a year and used it pretty heavily but still feel like I’m only 25% or so into fully grasping it all. very deep machine. 
 

heard some people really get on with the Engine, didn’t realize they were so hard to come by. maybe they’re working on a sequel for it? or maybe the person/team behind it isn’t comfortable expanding (or it just isn’t profitable).

new Launchpad is basically designed to operate like Ableton/Push even when it’s used without a computer, maybe a good option too?

[thawkins]

5 hours ago, TubularCorporation said:

I can't speak for the 1000 but I assume you can record new MIDI with the sequencer running in it because you can in the 2000.

I should go on the youtubes and try to find some more in depth talks about the machine. Tried to search, but there does not seem to be any people posting their MPC1000 jams from scratch. There are some who have prepared sessions and projects, which is cool too but not exactly what I want.

[TubularCorporation]

Output mod board is working.  Just waiting for the paint to dry on the edges of the holes I drilled for it and then hopefully I'll never have to open this thing up again.

 

 

[user]

Looks absolutely beautiful. Look forward to hearing it! Must feel pretty good to finish a build like that. 

[Taupe Beats]

3 hours ago, thawkins said:

I should go on the youtubes and try to find some more in depth talks about the machine. Tried to search, but there does not seem to be any people posting their MPC1000 jams from scratch. There are some who have prepared sessions and projects, which is cool too but not exactly what I want.

I use an MPC1000, you can definitely overdub MIDI while a sequence is running. That's standard issue for all Akai MIDI sequencers and transport controls. The JJOS firmware (an old Akai employee who basically filled out the potential functionality of the MPC1000 and MPC2500 after leaving the company) really opens up the potential of the device.

[TubularCorporation]

1 hour ago, user said:

Looks absolutely beautiful. Look forward to hearing it! Must feel pretty good to finish a build like that. 

 

Thanks!

I'm so glad it's over.  It was fun but I was sick of it by the end.

 

Only real minor disappointment (and it's completely obvious that it would be like this, I just didn't think about it until after I put it all together) is there's no volume control for the stereo out and it's pretty hot, so it's easy to overdrive stuff with it.  Makes perfect sense, since the individual voices are tapped way before it hits the main volume of course, and I can still adjust the per-patch VCA trim in a pinch. What I'm actually thinking of doing, since having the voices panned across the stereo out isn't usually what I want anyhow, is stick the old Behringer Virtualizer Pro in the rack underneath it, run the stereo outs through that to full wet, and use the original mono out as my main, dry output with the Behringer for effects, and the direct outs available if I want to do something more complicated.

Also, to drill the holes for the outputs I made a template from a piece of wood, tested the fit on that, and then used a bunch of double sided tape to stick it on and drill.  That worked fine, but for some reason even though the double sided tape comes of easy with alcohol on literalyl every other surface I've ever stuck it to, on the finish of the Kijimi case some of it jsut couldn't come off and the alcohol almost seemed like it made it stick MORE.  Just a few bits but it definitely gives the back panel a bit of grime.  Very weird, even scraping at the bits of adhesive with a plastic scraper that wouldn't scratch the finish didn't budge them.

[sweepstakes]

On 5/12/2020 at 11:14 AM, Soloman Tump said:

I like the look of the new 0-coast controller, the 0-ctrl, but that would mean I need to buy an 0-coast as well...... I guess its compatible with any other CV controllable stuff though.

 

On 5/13/2020 at 1:39 AM, auxien said:

remember thinking heavily about getting the 0-coast and if that controller helps open it up more, could see that being a really interesting combo. need to look at just cause i'm curious what the controller does now

I ended up ordering both - my first proper semi-modular and my first Make Noise. I've had major GAS before, but never like this, like a fucking command hallucination. This is a really cringey thing to say about gear, but something about the 0-Ctrl speaks to me in a deep, almost primal way. I never was into Make Noise, in fact while I have been ogling modular fairly seriously for about a year now, I've made extra effort to avoid their gear. But obviously I feel differently now.

Background info nobody gives a shit about: I've been a MIDI guy for 20 years. I've only started making the slightest flirtations with analog in the last 5 or so. However, unquantized time and pitch on a step sequencer is something I've been thinking about for a while. I made a pretty crude implementation of this in the Nord Micro Modular years back (which was still quantized to 7-bit values). I remember thinking it had potential but I didn't have a great way to control it so I mothballed it. Recently I've been getting into SuperCollider a decent amount, and while I love the precision, again it's becoming clear to me that controlling that stuff with MIDI just fucking sucks. I've come to the conclusion CV is where it's at for having both that kind of precision, but also a visceral poop-and-guts kind of immediacy, freedom, and just fucking fun. I've been hemming and hawing about how to get started, but I couldn't find anything that wasn't either too janky or too expensive, and I'm still a total noob to CV so the options are pretty overwhelming.

Then this fucking thing shows up on YouTube after 7 weeks of quarantine. Tony Rolando may as well have whispered "pool's open" in my ear. Time to dive in.

Possibly setting myself for major disappointment. With logistics all fucked up it'll be a while before they arrive anyway. Something to look forward to (or maybe dread, we'll see).

Edited May 15, 2020 by sweepstakes

[thawkins]

10 hours ago, Taupe Beats said:

I use an MPC1000, you can definitely overdub MIDI while a sequence is running. That's standard issue for all Akai MIDI sequencers and transport controls. The JJOS firmware (an old Akai employee who basically filled out the potential functionality of the MPC1000 and MPC2500 after leaving the company) really opens up the potential of the device.

Thanks for the info! Do you know if there are any guides/tutorials/video/whatever that go over this stuff? Anything that comes to mind? 

 

15 hours ago, auxien said:

lol

the Elektrons can be a touch tricky (OT especially) but to me they’re not so bad once you get past the initial little curve. that said I’ve not actually owned and OT or a Digitakt so I’m basing my rambling on other Elektron experience, what others say, and video explainers. 
 

if you think the Elektrons are tricky, the Pyramid is a whole other level. really gotta twist your brain hard to get into it IMO. I’ve had mine for about a year and used it pretty heavily but still feel like I’m only 25% or so into fully grasping it all. very deep machine. 
 

heard some people really get on with the Engine, didn’t realize they were so hard to come by. maybe they’re working on a sequel for it? or maybe the person/team behind it isn’t comfortable expanding (or it just isn’t profitable).

new Launchpad is basically designed to operate like Ableton/Push even when it’s used without a computer, maybe a good option too?

One thing that puts me off with Elektrons is that they also do synthesis and sound on their own. Which actually is not a bad thing because it is nice to have some bread and butter effects like delay and reverb. Octatrack seems to be a good piece of gear for this. Then I look at the prices and ehhh.

Now I have looked at some Pyramid videos I got to agree, it seems deep as fuck.

Launchpad is ehh.. I had the original v1 Launchpad and some Novation keyboard back in ancient times so not really looking to get one again. I should first learn Push better to know if I like this style of control or not. Still not too comfortable with janitoring sequences with the Push in a complex live set where whops you were in note more and pushed the down arrow = stop my amazing euclidean polyrhythm clip that I will never be able to correctly sync again.

[user]

12 hours ago, TubularCorporation said:

 

Thanks!

I'm so glad it's over.  It was fun but I was sick of it by the end.

 

Only real minor disappointment (and it's completely obvious that it would be like this, I just didn't think about it until after I put it all together) is there's no volume control for the stereo out and it's pretty hot, so it's easy to overdrive stuff with it.  Makes perfect sense, since the individual voices are tapped way before it hits the main volume of course, and I can still adjust the per-patch VCA trim in a pinch. What I'm actually thinking of doing, since having the voices panned across the stereo out isn't usually what I want anyhow, is stick the old Behringer Virtualizer Pro in the rack underneath it, run the stereo outs through that to full wet, and use the original mono out as my main, dry output with the Behringer for effects, and the direct outs available if I want to do something more complicated.

Also, to drill the holes for the outputs I made a template from a piece of wood, tested the fit on that, and then used a bunch of double sided tape to stick it on and drill.  That worked fine, but for some reason even though the double sided tape comes of easy with alcohol on literalyl every other surface I've ever stuck it to, on the finish of the Kijimi case some of it jsut couldn't come off and the alcohol almost seemed like it made it stick MORE.  Just a few bits but it definitely gives the back panel a bit of grime.  Very weird, even scraping at the bits of adhesive with a plastic scraper that wouldn't scratch the finish didn't budge them.

Can also imagine the relief, yeah : D 

 

Guess there’s always something to take away from any build, no matter how well it went. 

[TubularCorporation]

2 hours ago, thawkins said:

Thanks for the info! Do you know if there are any guides/tutorials/video/whatever that go over this stuff? Anything that comes to mind? 

 

One thing that puts me off with Elektrons is that they also do synthesis and sound on their own. Which actually is not a bad thing because it is nice to have some bread and butter effects like delay and reverb. Octatrack seems to be a good piece of gear for this. Then I look at the prices and ehhh.

Now I have looked at some Pyramid videos I got to agree, it seems deep as fuck.

Launchpad is ehh.. I had the original v1 Launchpad and some Novation keyboard back in ancient times so not really looking to get one again. I should first learn Push better to know if I like this style of control or not. Still not too comfortable with janitoring sequences with the Push in a complex live set where whops you were in note more and pushed the down arrow = stop my amazing euclidean polyrhythm clip that I will never be able to correctly sync again.

I think an MPC1000 costs almost as much as a used Octatrack MKI these days, but I wouldn't really recommend the Octatrack for heavy MIDI, its sequencer is really good for some stuff but it's also pretty limited in a lot of ways.

[sweepstakes]

4 hours ago, thawkins said:

Thanks for the info! Do you know if there are any guides/tutorials/video/whatever that go over this stuff? Anything that comes to mind? 

 

One thing that puts me off with Elektrons is that they also do synthesis and sound on their own. Which actually is not a bad thing because it is nice to have some bread and butter effects like delay and reverb. Octatrack seems to be a good piece of gear for this. Then I look at the prices and ehhh.

Now I have looked at some Pyramid videos I got to agree, it seems deep as fuck.

Launchpad is ehh.. I had the original v1 Launchpad and some Novation keyboard back in ancient times so not really looking to get one again. I should first learn Push better to know if I like this style of control or not. Still not too comfortable with janitoring sequences with the Push in a complex live set where whops you were in note more and pushed the down arrow = stop my amazing euclidean polyrhythm clip that I will never be able to correctly sync again.

I actually have quite a bit of muscle memory with the MPC1000 from when my setup was basically that and a Shruthi-1. Overdub is definitely a thing. The MPC is one of the most intuitive sequencers I've ever used.

[Taupe Beats]

As far as tutorials for the MPC1K go, there's not a ton of great ones admittedly. A lot of it is somewhat intuitive, and then the manual can help with the specifics (bit of a language barrier).

Main JJOS site:  http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/

Manual (for JJOS 2XL, which is what you'd want):  http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os_manual.htm

[thawkins]

45 minutes ago, sweepstakes said:

I actually have quite a bit of muscle memory with the MPC1000 from when my setup was basically that and a Shruthi-1. Overdub is definitely a thing. The MPC is one of the most intuitive sequencers I've ever used.

I like the idea of the MPC. I used to do some of my first tracks on the built in sequencer in Yamaha MO6 (that is gathering dust in a faraway country now), and for some reason I felt that need to try this way of working too. I never got too good at it, though.

42 minutes ago, Taupe Beats said:

As far as tutorials for the MPC1K go, there's not a ton of great ones admittedly. A lot of it is somewhat intuitive, and then the manual can help with the specifics (bit of a language barrier).

Main JJOS site:  http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/

Manual (for JJOS 2XL, which is what you'd want):  http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os_manual.htm

Cheers, thanks! I actually found one where you can see the live looping-overdubbing in action, but the guy keeps stopping and editing different settings so not sure if and what is possible while the sequencer is running on the background.

 

2 hours ago, TubularCorporation said:

I think an MPC1000 costs almost as much as a used Octatrack MKI these days, but I wouldn't really recommend the Octatrack for heavy MIDI, its sequencer is really good for some stuff but it's also pretty limited in a lot of ways.

The prices are bonkers yes. The cheapest I could find was around 750eur and it's starting to get out of impulse buy territory.

[sweepstakes]

32 minutes ago, thawkins said:

I like the idea of the MPC. I used to do some of my first tracks on the built in sequencer in Yamaha MO6 (that is gathering dust in a faraway country now), and for some reason I felt that need to try this way of working too. I never got too good at it, though.

Cheers, thanks! I actually found one where you can see the live looping-overdubbing in action, but the guy keeps stopping and editing different settings so not sure if and what is possible while the sequencer is running on the background.

 

The prices are bonkers yes. The cheapest I could find was around 750eur and it's starting to get out of impulse buy territory.

Yeah, you can just smack that Overdub button when it's running and you're rolling. Those 5 buttons on the bottom-right are so easy to develop muscle memory for, and you quickly get a feel for how they work together. When I was playing with mine over the weekend, though, I couldn't remember how to turn off the metronome - will have to flip through the manual to find that again.

That's nuts about the prices. I just remember them being $400-$600 USD since like 2008 when I got mine, real middle-of-the-road, Goldilocks tier gear. I think I paid $550 and that was a little high even then.

[thawkins]

They were around 500-600 bucks last year (or year before that) when I went through the same phase, but never ended up getting it then either. As I said, it's a seasonal thing.

[sweepstakes]

5 minutes ago, thawkins said:

They were around 500-600 bucks last year (or year before that) when I went through the same phase, but never ended up getting it then either. As I said, it's a seasonal thing.

lol, I know how this goes. I go through this with the modular stuff too. I think I had the same thing for a couple years with the MPC before I finally got one - I would even have dreams about it and stuff! It really is a beautiful workflow, though - the magic of it is that there's no magic to it, it's total garbage-in-garbage-out.

[thawkins]

2 hours ago, sweepstakes said:

lol, I know how this goes. I go through this with the modular stuff too. I think I had the same thing for a couple years with the MPC before I finally got one - I would even have dreams about it and stuff! It really is a beautiful workflow, though - the magic of it is that there's no magic to it, it's total garbage-in-garbage-out.

You know it would make sense to get one now, not few years later when they're all going for 2k€... or when they go for peanuts because Uli released the clones.