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the watmm GAS thread


modey

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11 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Whoah ... that’s a *really* expensive matrix mixer.

 

If you can do without the pins you could design and build this yourself for much less money, I’d imagine.

 

There are matrix mixers, and Matrix Mixers of course. Some are passive, (noisy as hell) and some are active which gives you a clean blend of signals and phase correction. 

 

Check this bad boy:

 

matrise_white.png

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9 minutes ago, Soloman Tump said:

 

There are matrix mixers, and Matrix Mixers of course. Some are passive, (noisy as hell) and some are active which gives you a clean blend of signals and phase correction. 

 

Check this bad boy:

 

matrise_white.png

Yeah, I've got one of those discontinued Xiwi passive matrix mixers (basically 8 jacks and an array of pots and resistors) and I have to say that the uses are limited without external, noise-introducing (and setup-complicating) amplification. This thing looks tasty, and the phase inversion would be brilliant for feedback loops. 285 USD is maybe a touch steep, but it's in the ballpark of reason.

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Yeah, a pin matrix isn't quite the same but it's pretty close.  If I was going to build one from scratch I'd put a simple active buffer on every buss bar, you can make one with about a quarter worth of parts.  The matrix itself would be a bit of a hassle to make but a lot cheaper (and more compact) than buying 64 pots.

I just really like the ergonomics of a pin matrix, but not for that kind of money.  I get that fabricating all of the copper bus bars for it brings the manufacturing cost up, but still.

 

Edited by TubularCorporation
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I've got a pretty decent plan in my head for a basic pin matrix (just the actual matrix itself, for building an arbitrary patch matrix design around) that should be doable with $10-$15 of Keystone Electronics #43 hollow rivets, some nylon spacers and a couple pieces of stripboard (or custom PCBs if you have more money than free time to trill a couple hundred holes).

 

Wont be as sturdy as using a bunch of little copper bus bars with 2mm holes drilled in them mounted on a custom designed frame or something like that, and won't have the load resistors you'd find in real EMS pins (but with buffers I don't think you'd need those anyhow, and it's probably closer to the FSS design than the FSS is to an EMS), but it'll be a lot cheaper and easier than doing it the right way and should be sturdier and nicer to use than the DIY designs that use 1/8" jacks.

 

EDIT:

 

Will I make one?  Maybe some day.

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My dad made me a matrix "mixer" a few years back using reed switches laid out in a grid that you place small magnets on to make the connections. It's just passive, but I think reed switches are a pretty fun idea for a matrix, because you can basically use any magnet you like to activate it, as long as it's strong enough, and the circuitry can be hidden underneath a panel for maximum aesthetic.

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7 hours ago, modey said:

My dad made me a matrix "mixer" a few years back using reed switches laid out in a grid that you place small magnets on to make the connections. It's just passive, but I think reed switches are a pretty fun idea for a matrix, because you can basically use any magnet you like to activate it, as long as it's strong enough, and the circuitry can be hidden underneath a panel for maximum aesthetic.

The first year I worked at the record store we got a Transcriptors Skeleton turntable and all of the controls worked like that, you'd turn a knob that would mechanically move a magnet over a reed switch . It was a cool design.

 

Now I'm regretting passing up the chance to buy a Transcriptors Skeleton for $75.

 

14654464165_685f9f27c5_b.jpg

Edited by TubularCorporation
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https://www.hhv.de/shop/en/item/teac-tn-4d-black-662029?p=HzrHAB

I need to figure out what the hell is going on with all my audio routing and room correction though. And figure out a good place to put it too.

Not sure if I am ready to become vinyl guy either though.

Edited by thawkins
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Why do you want a direct drive? I was always taught that direct drive is for DJs as they start and stop quicker while for listening belt drive is better because there9s a belt between the motor and the needle. Is that no longer true?

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6 hours ago, rhmilo said:

Why do you want a direct drive? I was always taught that direct drive is for DJs as they start and stop quicker while for listening belt drive is better because there9s a belt between the motor and the needle. Is that no longer true?

Good direct drive is more stable.  The reason rich audiophile types have turntables with platters a foot thick is because the momentum helps smooth out the speed inconsistencies that any belt driven system is going to have.

 

i can't speak for other DD turntables but the one I use doesn't have a separate motor, the platter itself is the fixed magnet half of a brushless motor and the only thing it touches is the bearing it sits on. There's a big ring of electromagnets in the frame where the platter sits and they're activated in sequence and push the platter, a little bit like how a railgun works I guess. I don't know which DD Technics models work that way and which don't, but it's really effective.  The only issue I've had is that Grado cartridges pick up a fair bit of noise because they're not shielded like most cartridges are. Switched over ot OM series Ortofons a few years ago and they're dead silent, a bit less expensive, and pair better with the arm.

 

I think it's more that a good belt drive turntable is more cost effective to manufacture than a good direct drive, so at a given price point you're going to probably get more for your money with belt drive unless you luck out and find something that was thrown out by a college radio station or something.

 

If motor noise was absolutely inherent to direct drive it would be cut into the lacquers that all the records everyone listens to were made from, because lathes are all direct drive.

Edited by TubularCorporation
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10 hours ago, rhmilo said:

Why do you want a direct drive? I was always taught that direct drive is for DJs as they start and stop quicker while for listening belt drive is better because there9s a belt between the motor and the needle. Is that no longer true?

I don't care either way actually. I chose this model because it's TEAC (which means Tascam?), it has the phono preamps and even USB out. Also maybe I am being stupid about this but I never believed in turntables that cost 200EUR or less because they seem kind of flimsy?

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31 minutes ago, thawkins said:

I never believed in turntables that cost 200EUR or less because they seem kind of flimsy?

Yeah, I remember reading somewhere that all turntables that cost less than that are essentially the same device, just with different branding. €150 or €50 (yes, they exist): no difference. And they all plough through your precious vinyl.

@TubularCorporation makes an interesting point above, about direct drive vs belt drive, too.

Oh, and finally: the greatest benefit of vinyl isn’t the vinyl itself, the turntable or the needle or anything, it’s that vinyl is harder to master for so it requires more care and attention than simply slamming everything through a limiter. And you don’t even need a super good sound system to hear that.

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1405584036_65.jpg

I have a pair of these which are essentially Technics 1210 clones (I mean, they even look the same)

Main benefits over the Technics are +/- 50% pitch control, better torque for start/stop and cheaper (but still £600 each.  I paid for them monthly over 2 years which didn't feel as bad....)

 

 

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I think I am not going to get a DJing setup, just looking for a turntable for listening purposes. I recall someone mentioning in this thread that turntables geared towards DJing (like the Technics) might actually not sound as good as something much less iconic and cheaper, so I figure that aiming for something that both sounds good and is sturdy and reliable for DJing is going to set me back much more in terms of $$$ than something that is aimed for listening but not so much for DJing.

Yeah and now this brings me to a huge GAS related purchase that I have been thinking about for a year already - getting a subwoofer to match my pair of Neumann KH120A.

Which brings me to thinking about how to set up my room correction plugin EQ in a way that does not require all audio to pass through a DAW in a laptop.

Which brings me to indecision and depression. ?

Anyway thanks for the tips.

Edited by thawkins
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I always heard that the main issue with a good DJ turntable is that the stock arms are designed more to optimize tracking than sound quality, and if you upgrade the arm on a used SP1200 you can end up with something pretty comparable to one of those audiophile turntables that cost as much as a car but only pay the equivalent of a couple months rent for it.

 

I guess if you're in the financial position to do that kind of thing it's a really good option to consider.  Here's a good example:

 

https://www.tonepublications.com/analogaholic/sl-1200-upgrades-sound-hifi/

 

I got my SP-15 for $80 and I'm going to run that thing until it stops working or I do, but if I ever have to replace it I'd probably go this route, if only because I could get a good used 1200, arm mount and most of the cost of a good arm for what a broken SP-15 with arm would sell for these days (pretty sure the arm on it is too long for a 1200).

 

Or you could read this typical audiophile forum thread with people arguing about SL-1200 upgrades where an anti-vaxxer (who is also the site owner) argues about the virtues of SL-1200 modification, and then reevaluate whether it's actually worth caring about.

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3 hours ago, thawkins said:

I have been thinking about for a year already - getting a subwoofer to match my pair of Neumann KH120A.

Which brings me to thinking about how to set up my room correction plugin EQ in a way that does not require all audio to pass through a DAW in a laptop.

 

https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/kh-750-dsp

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4 hours ago, thawkins said:

I think I am not going to get a DJing setup, just looking for a turntable for listening purposes. I recall someone mentioning in this thread that turntables geared towards DJing (like the Technics) might actually not sound as good as something much less iconic and cheaper, so I figure that aiming for something that both sounds good and is sturdy and reliable for DJing is going to set me back much more in terms of $$$ than something that is aimed for listening but not so much for DJing.

Yeah and now this brings me to a huge GAS related purchase that I have been thinking about for a year already - getting a subwoofer to match my pair of Neumann KH120A.

Which brings me to thinking about how to set up my room correction plugin EQ in a way that does not require all audio to pass through a DAW in a laptop.

Which brings me to indecision and depression. ?

Anyway thanks for the tips.

Regarding the room correction, you could always look in to getting a miniDSP and write off the cost of the software you have as paying a bit too much for the test microphone it came with.

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

 

EDIT: never mind, I just noticed that version doesn't do room correction without buying a $200 firmware upgrade, and at that point it's too expensive to be worth it IMO.

Edited by TubularCorporation
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1 minute ago, TubularCorporation said:

Regarding the room correction, you could always look in to getting a miniDSP and write off the cost of the software you have as paying a bit too much for the test microphone it came with.

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/2-x-in-4-x-out-hd

I was actually just thinking about half-assing it and copying the EQ curve from the IK ARC 2 into my MOTU Track16 DSP EQ. Most of the messy parts are in the low end so I should be able to approximate it more or less, at least for casual listening.

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Based on the GAS in this thread I've placed an order for the Lyra8 diy kit, and going to have my buddy at Magpie Modular design a super tricked out panel for it. 

Random note, I accidentally order 2 Gods Box Lollipop compresser Diy kits.  I've got one of em unopened and wanted to see if anyone wanted it before I paid to ship it back to the UK, or perhaps someone has something interesting to trade.

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/lollipop/

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1 hour ago, Bluetech said:

Based on the GAS in this thread I've placed an order for the Lyra8 diy kit, and going to have my buddy at Magpie Modular design a super tricked out panel for it. 

Random note, I accidentally order 2 Gods Box Lollipop compresser Diy kits.  I've got one of em unopened and wanted to see if anyone wanted it before I paid to ship it back to the UK, or perhaps someone has something interesting to trade.

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/lollipop/

How did you manage that?  I've been on the waiting list for the next batch for over two weeks now and they won't even take payment in advance.

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On 8/26/2020 at 1:59 PM, TubularCorporation said:

How did you manage that?  I've been on the waiting list for the next batch for over two weeks now and they won't even take payment in advance.

Im also waiting, but I ordered 3 of them and contacted a bit ago. 

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been mighty tempted by any boom-bap making devices ala the MPC's or Roland SP's but now realising I should just focus on the good ole' Octatrack and go really deep with that, just such a bummer that you cant MIDI trigger slices, how have Elektron not solved this by now :blink:

I probably shouldn't even ask, but are there any other hardware alternatives out there for simple vinyl/sampling beat making?

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10 minutes ago, TRiP said:

been mighty tempted by any boom-bap making devices ala the MPC's or Roland SP's but now realising I should just focus on the good ole' Octatrack and go really deep with that, just such a bummer that you cant MIDI trigger slices, how have Elektron not solved this by now :blink:

I probably shouldn't even ask, but are there any other hardware alternatives out there for simple vinyl/sampling beat making?

The Blackbox 1010 was a popular choice for a while. My buddy had one for a bit and I think he decided he didn't like the lack of physical pads.

If you wanna go REALLY simple, the PO33 is a hoot, but with that you throw MIDI out the window entirely.

What is your use case for MIDI triggering slices? Control with physical pads? It might be worth just running an MPC (any MPC) alongside the OT if this is important to you. They are different enough that they could complement each other. WNY / Winnie the Shit was using this setup for a bit and he said as much about them complementing each other. That said, I tried this a while back and found it a little too beaucoup for me.

I will say that for slicing up vinyl loops/phrases, I've found the MPC1000 w/ JJOS to be the absolute best option. The slicing workflow is wicked fast, and once you've got your slices, bashing the pads to arrange can be very satisfying and musical. Sometimes this feels almost trance-like with the micro-rhythms pulling you in different directions as you discover delicious pockets of grooves.

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