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the watmm GAS thread


modey
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44 minutes ago, xox said:

@thawkins ppl are producing complete albums completely on iphones

So, slow computers in 2020? What’s that?

28 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Computers can’t handle DAW projects because producers are overcomplicating things.

 Techno used to be music where you’d let a 909 BD run in a 4/4 pattern and add some bleepy bloopy things on top.

Now, people build huge stacks of synths, samplers, EQs and compressors just to make a single bass drum.

 

Use a DAW the way, say, Autechre used logic in 1998 and I can assure you your laptop - or phone! - will handle it fine.

I accept that quite possible I suck at using my computer effectively for this, but please let's not get into a discussion like "duh you can make a complete album on a phone" or "some guys managed to use software 20y ago to make cool stuff".

Because @xox you are yourself using the Elektron machines along with a beefy desktop PC, which is not a phone, right?

And really what irks me is this: people could work well with software sequencing and DAW tools 20 fucking years ago. Why am I getting glitches trying to record 4 MIDI tracks playing back to 8 mono tracks (i.e. 4 stereo pairs)?

My beat to hell Windows XP computer from 2003 could record 8 tracks when we did an EP with our band. I am here 7-8 years later and a supposedly top of the line Macbook with a MOTU interface can't do it.

What I am saying is that going DAWless gets rid of these kinds of problems. Your 20 year old rack synth or mixer does not need a software operating system, it is what it is. Even if your gear runs firmware, that firmware does not need to run antivirus or web browsers or the million different things people use computers for.

Sorry for rambling.

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@thawkins yes, i use Elektron machines and a PC with a i7 8700k cpu, 16 gb ram. But i also use the hungriest vst synths and efx on the market (just bc i can, nothing else) and it’s not hard to make my beefy comp cry at all, which is not that beefy anymore in 2020. Also, with maxmsp just can quickly overload any cpu. But that’s usually when i go over the top; in a normal usage when using vst synths the cpu is usually at around 20-30% load. One of my laptops is a MBP from 2010 and when im working on it i need to think about the power management al the time but it’s doable. I’ve tried to produce on my iphone and it’s also doable (recording hw synths, sequencing and recording midi au synths and mixing) but I stopped bc why should I bother when i have 4 proper computes. 

which computer do you have? maybe it’s time for upgrade

 

Edited by xox
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I don’t know if Apple have improved the MacBook but the one I had from ~2015 was an unreliable piece of shit. Windows has caught up to OS X in terms of reliability I reckon - the only advantage OS X still has in my mind is aggregate audio devices and numerology. 

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I have a 2016 15" MBP with 16 gigs of memory, which should be good, but you are all probably right, somethings fucky with it. I mean I get hard reboots out of the blue when unplugging my USB audio interface. 🙂

I got angry and did a test today - I hooked up all my hardware and played-recorded simultaneously from all ins - that's 8+2+2+2+2=16 channels and everything worked perfectly. Not a lot of effects but some cabinet simulation, EQs and stuff like that.

Notably absent was M4L though, I did not use any devices at all. I wonder if this can have something to do with it.

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20 hours ago, modey said:

I don't understand the whole DAWless recording thing. It's 100x easier to record in a DAW and see what is actually going on than on a standalone recorder.

The thing is that I only use hardware for making music. It's way more comfortable, reliable and immediate for me then to use a  standalone recorder. Nothing beats having found the right groove for a jam to just hit the record button and go instead of booting the laptop, booting reaper, arming the tracks etc.

Like most people today I live a life where my face is in front of a screen 80% of the time and just enjoy getting away from it for a while.

If I'd do a lot of post-editing I'd stick to recording into DAW but that isn't the case. I've been DAWless since long before that word even existed. Started originally on a DAW (fruity loops and later renoise) in the early 2000's but could never find real enjoyment in using it. 2008 I got my first roland vs-880 and never felt a reason to go back to a pc.

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Fair enough. If it's what you're used to then I guess it's not an issue. I just see people throwing around the term DAWless like it's some kind of trophy or standard to aim for. Like beginners aren't going to feel like they're making legit music unless a DAW isn't involved. I remember a similar attitude in the early 00s when software like FL was starting to appear. 

My setup: everything runs through my interface and the only way I can even hear anything is if I've got a DAW open and armed to record. My computer is on all the time, and Reaper is only a click away with a default template at startup that has everything armed. Even if I've been working at my computer all day it's one click before I can just turn away to my gear and forget it's even there. I've also got my R16 set up so that transport and mixing on the device controls Reaper, so I use that a lot for levels etc. 

Edited by modey
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I dunno about the hipster appeal of DAWless but there's something to be said about switching up your workflow. Horizontal transports and piano rolls don't do much for me anymore, so I pretty much just use my DAW as a recorder.

I'm selling my Matrix 1000 for that reason, I love it to death but it doesn't fit into my external sequencing workflow. Dragging up a software editor all the time just to adjust one parameter gets bothersome. It was a really nice acquaintance, but I need a poly module with knobs and a minimum of menu diving. I wasn't quite wowed by Novation's Peak but it's starting to gain my interest due to the terrific interface, probably the best out there. Other candidates are Deepmind and Perfourmer. The Perfourmer is probably the coolest but it's not really versatile, a quality that's growing more important than sick oscillators & filters or whatever. 

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I try to do as much as possible without the DAW, but 90% of the time I end up popping open Reaper at the very least to dump tracks into to edit. Occasionally I'll hook everything up to my interface and record everything to separate tracks. That ends up feeling like a chore to me, but that's largely because I have done pretty close to jack shit on studio ergonomics - I almost always roll with 2-3 pieces of gear at a time and constantly swap things in and out. I think I'd like to move more in that "proper studio" direction.

Anyway, Reaper has given me pretty close to 0 problems. I don't think of myself as a DAW guy but I use Reaper regularly and I don't mind it one bit. It doesn't get in the way.

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8 hours ago, thawkins said:

I mean I get hard reboots out of the blue when unplugging my USB audio interface. 🙂

 

Your computer is broken. Seriously.

Or, more likely, your USB audio interface.

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1 hour ago, rhmilo said:

Your computer is broken. Seriously.

Or, more likely, your USB audio interface.

I did a sort of test by hooking everything up to my old computer, even installed Live Suite 10 on that and encountered no problems, so probably something to do with the computer, yeah.

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21 hours ago, modey said:

Fair enough. If it's what you're used to then I guess it's not an issue. I just see people throwing around the term DAWless like it's some kind of trophy or standard to aim for. Like beginners aren't going to feel like they're making legit music unless a DAW isn't involved. I remember a similar attitude in the early 00s when software like FL was starting to appear. 

My setup: everything runs through my interface and the only way I can even hear anything is if I've got a DAW open and armed to record. My computer is on all the time, and Reaper is only a click away with a default template at startup that has everything armed. Even if I've been working at my computer all day it's one click before I can just turn away to my gear and forget it's even there. I've also got my R16 set up so that transport and mixing on the device controls Reaper, so I use that a lot for levels etc. 

I completely agree on the hipster value being somewhat ridiculous. Great music has been made on computers just as without any DAW. And yes I remember too the days that FL was seen as some kind of kids software that you can't make serious music with, which is obviously utter nonsense and is a good analogy to frowning on people who use laptops today.

The way you describe your setup it sounds like little hassle and very close to using the r16 standalone. I guess what attracts me about using it that way is a stronger sense of being "closer to the music" when recording, re-recording and hearing the result without looking at something. Plus an extra sense of reliability (no crashes, no accidental falling into standby etc.) and less distraction. Anyway I'm aware that it is a first world problem if I can call it a problem to have to record in a DAW. So that Tascam model 12 might just wait a little longer before I need it with which we're back on topic 😄

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I just got an email saying that I'm finally at the top of the Pulsar-23 waitlist. Can't afford it though 😞

It did push me to finally sell the rest of my eurorack though. I just can't be bothered with euro at the moment. It was fun for a while, but constant struggles with integrating it with non-eurorack setups were endlessly frustrating. As much as I tried to tell myself that a tiny, mostly effects based modular setup would work, it really didn't work for me. 

 

Anyway, in other news, my M8 arrived on Sunday! Sounds amazing. 

 

Can't wait until I'm comfortable enough with it to make some full tracks. 

Seems like the Nanoloop device isn't far off either. With these two I don't think I'm gonna miss eurorack. Especially since M8 has Braids and similar wavefolding options to Warps built in. 

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I love all trackers. I wonder how much that m8 gonna cost. Any way you can PM me the price range?

Edited by acid1
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1 hour ago, acid1 said:

I love all trackers. I wonder how much that m8 gonna cost. Any way you can PM me the price range?

I don't know the price range for the production version, he's still figuring that out. The "limited edition" was $350US though. It's definitely worth that price, at least.

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15 hours ago, modey said:

I don't know the price range for the production version, he's still figuring that out. The "limited edition" was $350US though. It's definitely worth that price, at least.

DAMMNN. I missed out big time!

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I now have a Push 2, and even though I’ve yet to write a tune with it I must say it’s a surprisingly awesome controller for mixing and for loads of utilitarian tasks.

 

A6577463-F61C-43B5-9B5B-23B3F616B75F.jpeg

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I am still using my Push version 1, and slowly getting better at doing things with it. I think the main things that I would want is a better "UI" for messing with MIDI clips while they are playing. Probably it is just me but the step sequencer view (especially the melodic) is insanely unusable and so far I have not gotten the hang of how to work with them. Not sure if this is fixed in Push 2.

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I managed to snag a KeyStep 37 right on release day to replace my old crap Oxygen 25.  Also grabbed a Clarett 4pre to replace my ancient Thunderbolt 1 Apogee Duet, which was running through two successive dongles and getting ridiculously unstable after 13 years or so. 

So, kind of pathetically, for the first time ever I’ve finally got my Volca FM, Model:Samples, Reaktor, and Reaper actually connected to a functioning MIDI controller and everything able to sync/record in one pass.  That was more than a bit overdue. 

Still a pretty basic setup really, but I’m having a lot of fun with the stuff I have and getting some decent results now.  I kind of feel like the composition/workflow is starting to click a bit these days whereas everything before was just a bit aimless. 

The M:S is pretty addictive, I just wish the velocity sensitive pads didn’t need to get absolutely punched to register anything. 

 

 

 
 


 

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3 hours ago, chim said:

New arrival! 

IMG_20200924_171109.jpg

Isn't this too fancy for a laptop stand? Doesn't even look like you can adjust the height and no cooling fans either...

 

I finally took the plunge and ordered the sorbothane urethane bumpers for my monitors. I also need to figure out something something to optimize my desk placement. Got to have something more advanced than books stacked on top of rack stuff for monitor stands, right? I don't think I can afford a tumbler dryer though, maybe I have to stick with VHS players found from the trash (as if those weren't already too rare these days).

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