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the watmm GAS thread


modey
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Guest Chesney

Ableton is a powerful tool, all encompasing and covers so much ground it does make most gear redundant but yet gear is still used.

If you just use ableton then you'll have music that sounds very ableton (not completely true as lots of people mix and match plugins to give them a varied sound succesfully).

If you find a medium between the two then you could have a powerful sound (not aimed at you, just people in general).

 

I admit, my music could benefit from the deepness and flow of something like ableton but I wouldn't enjoy looking at it for any amount of time so I decide to do things the way I do. Not the cheapest, nor the sleekest way to work but I enjoy it.

 

If you keep going back to ableton then you are the exact opposite to me Shea, You know your craft but can appreciate the other side of doing things.

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I see it more like synergistic process. After months of repatching, rerouting (without patchbay), dealing with menus etc i open renoise and feel myself like hyper efficient cyberspyder. It also makes me curious about undiscovered features in renoise i can abuse and get interesting results. Then, after 2-3 sessions, this state of mind can wear off and i return to hardware.

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I have two completely different mindsets when using hardware/software. Hardware for me is great for sound design, spontaneity, destructive edits while improvising, etc.. but software is where I care less about sound design and more about composition. Both have their advantages for sure, but most of the time I just want to turn on my machines and make some godawful noise, which occasionally turns into a nice techno/IDM track lol

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Guest Chesney

Yeah, it's a wicked reverb, so much better than the older machines. Be carefull though, it's so easy to overdo it  ;)

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Guest Chesney

I'm not sure it is the Dark reverb, could be wrong. Maybe they sound different because the subject matter I use on both machines is so different.

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lol, you can't overdo reverb!  :catface:

 

 

Played my first show in a while last night and I ended up kind of rushing through the last bit of it because I'm not used to doing percussion-heavy stuff through a PA and felt like I'd overdone the reverb and it was just turning everything into a blur when you added he room acoustics into the mix, but none of the people I talked to about it afterward noticed it being a problem.  Even though some of the tracks had two or three long reverbs in series (also some of the drum samples were taken from a Roland MT-32 with the internal reverb turned up pretty high, and then sent through delay before hitting another reverb or two) and at least one had the reverb send turned up higher than the dry signal.  They guy who played after me and wants to set up another show together didn't even notice I was using reverb.

 

I love reverb.

Edited by RSP
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Guest Chesney

lol, you can't overdo reverb!  :catface:

Ha true, that's not what I meant though, I meant it's easy to just whack it on everything straight away to quickly get a good sound meaning everything you do has this one reverb sound throughout. The raw oscs sound pretty meh on the A4 so it's easy to want to get something sounding nice straight away before you synthesise it whereas I think you get better sounds synthesising how you want it then add the effects to taste.

 

Rad little odd track dude.

 

Are you delving into the performance side of it yet? This is where it starts to blow your mind where you can take analogue synthesis on this machine. Also it's easy to forget about parameter locks on this box because you're thinking about melody and the types of melodies usually associated with analogue synths, but when you remind yourself, every time it's a eureka moment.

Never before could you have an analogue synth jump and squirm about so much in such a small space of time.

Hope you're enjoying it ha

Edited by Chesney
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RAS

 

Reverb Acquisition Syndrome

 

Reverb is truly an incredible tool for sound.  It's embedded in our DNA~!

 

+1 

 

Question for the class. Favourite reverb hardware? I've used a Strymon blue sky for a bit but sold it. Looking back that was a grave error. 

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lol, you can't overdo reverb!  :catface:

Ha true, that's not what I meant though, I meant it's easy to just whack it on everything straight away to quickly get a good sound meaning everything you do has this one reverb sound throughout. The raw oscs sound pretty meh on the A4 so it's easy to want to get something sounding nice straight away before you synthesise it whereas I think you get better sounds synthesising how you want it then add the effects to taste.

 

Rad little odd track dude.

 

Are you delving into the performance side of it yet? This is where it starts to blow your mind where you can take analogue synthesis on this machine. Also it's easy to forget about parameter locks on this box because you're thinking about melody and the types of melodies usually associated with analogue synths, but when you remind yourself, every time it's a eureka moment.

Never before could you have an analogue synth jump and squirm about so much in such a small space of time.

Hope you're enjoying it ha

 

 

With this track I added more/different reverbs to each individual track afterwards (in Ableton) but I know what you mean. I only got it yesterday so I'm reading the manual, playing around with sounds and then combining them with others I like. Will likely do this and live recordings until I want to do something with more structure/song like. I don't use the parameter locks per-se (by holding the button down and tweaking) I prefer live recording mode where I can tweak. I wasn't going to do it initially but I ended up recording 4 separate live recordings for each part of the track so that I could edit via the joystick. 

 

Anyway, it seems like a great synth. Does traditional bass, leads, pads very nicely just falling down this weird abstract rabbit hole. Made something earlier that was even weirder than that 1st track (it has drums so I've decided it's an Autechre c-side...) but I love the combination of the sounds/reverb/parameter tweaking and the joystick. I thought the monomachine was my most fun synth, now I'm not sure (will look to combine the raw digital with some nice pads at some point). 

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Question for the class. Favourite reverb hardware? 

 

 

I used only few and cheap. My favorites so far: ensoniq's dp/2 (dp/4) algorythms (many of which was made in attempts to reverse engineer lexicon's algos iirc) and lexicon's lxp5. Actually i was really surprized by lxp5, it is cheap but quality-wise it's reverb algo sounds like REVERB BUTTER. I was somehow sceptical about 'lexicon magic' before. By the way i tried to implement Tom Erbe's topology in Axoloti: Synth1 through Axoloti (more hifi) and also Keith Barr's (founder of Alesis) one.

Edited by telefunken
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Guest Chesney

Nice Alan ord!

 

I really like the Elektron reverb so use the octa and A4 for effects but the Eventide space and Lexicon PCM80 gets the most use. I rarely use the DP/4 for reverb I prefer that box for distortions and other bits and bobs.

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RAS

 

Reverb Acquisition Syndrome

 

Reverb is truly an incredible tool for sound. It's embedded in our DNA~!

+1

 

Question for the class. Favourite reverb hardware? I've used a Strymon blue sky for a bit but sold it. Looking back that was a grave error.

Waaat... Somehow I felt Strymon (and I suppose neunaber immerse ting) pedal users were life users, but I guess not.

 

Software convolution reverbs are nutz, so that's my favorite type. Only hardware I've owned are current Behringer RV600 pedal (great bang for buck), and a Digitech rack unit like 15+ years ago (which had a few lush presets). Back then, I really wanted a TC Electronic M-One, which sounded luuush...

 

It seems like technology is so hardcore now, that any reverb hardware is good. And then it's like, even the most "digital sounding" 90's reverbs are cool, so I suppose... -Is it possible that NO reverb unit or effect is bad?!

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Question for the class. Favourite reverb hardware? 

 

 

I used only few and cheap. My favorites so far: ensoniq's dp/2 (dp/4) algorythms (many of which was made in attempts to reverse engineer lexicon's algos iirc) and lexicon's lxp5. Actually i was really surprized by lxp5, it is cheap but quality-wise it's reverb algo sounds like REVERB BUTTER. I was somehow sceptical about 'lexicon magic' before. By the way i tried to implement Tom Erbe's topology in Axoloti: Synth1 through Axoloti (more hifi) and also Keith Barr's (founder of Alesis) one.

 

 

The Accutronics/Belton Digi-Log module sounds great.  I built one of the Geofex or BYOC kits that are based on it a few years afo but it's pretty much just one of the standard application circuits for it as far as I know.  Really convincing spring reverb sound.

 

OTO BAM is one of the fanciest things I've ever actually bought new, but was totally worth it.

 

Alesis The Wedge is a pretty reasonable way to get a lot of 90s Alesis reverbs with a really good interface (pretty long faders for every single parameter) and passable build quality.  Not to rugged but no worse than a DR-660.  The power supply jack tends to get loose and make them intermittent, and at that point they're REALLY cheap and very easy to repair.  Changing the battery is a pain though.

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OTO BAM is one of the fanciest things I've ever actually bought new, but was totally worth it.

Do you tend to prefer using the BAM over other verbs and why (sound, control surface, etc.)? What situations do you find yourself preferring other verbs instead of the BAM?

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I'll stand by the Behringer Virtualizer Pro for reverb, it is super ridiculously lush.

 

I quite like the Midiverb III too. 90s rack reverbs are really my kinda thing :D

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Yeah I just have a Quadraverb and a couple Elektrons, nothing real expensive sounding in the reverb department. BAM and Space look cool to me, mostly because they seem to sound good but are both also a nice size for gigging. I suppose this would apply to the Wedge as well, although sound-wise it doesn't seem too different from the Quadraverb.

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OTO BAM is one of the fanciest things I've ever actually bought new, but was totally worth it.

Do you tend to prefer using the BAM over other verbs and why (sound, control surface, etc.)? What situations do you find yourself preferring other verbs instead of the BAM?

 

 

 

I prefer it over every reverb I've owned, hardware or software, for sound.  Control surface is good, it's easy to dial stuff in, but the reason I felt like I hadn't wasted my money as soon as I turned it on is that it just has a way of sitting exactly where you want it to in a mix like nothing else I've used before.  IT seems like no matter how much of it I use it doesn't sound like an effect added to the mix , it just sounds like part of the mix.  I've really shocked myself a few times by turning it of and realizing how much more reverb I'd been using than I usually do simply because it wasn't getting in the way at all.  A lot of that is in having HP and LP filters on the input, that helps any reverb sit better, but I really can't point to any one thing about it that stands out as the reason I like it so much.  It just sounds VERY GOOD.

 

I still use plenty of other reverbs, and Valhalla Vintage Verb (which is the closest comparison I can make to the BAM since I've never been lucky enough to use any of the first generation digital reverbs it's inspired by) is still my current main reverb for ITB mixing since it's also really good in a similar way (and the algorithms that were added in the last update close the gap even more) and it's a lot more convenient, but the BAM is pretty much the first thing I reach for now.  I use other reverbs for specific sounds and I'll use convolution in software if I want to simulate an acoustic space, but at this point it's the only hardware reverb I own that I consider using as an aux effect on multiple tracks anymore, I'll use the other ones on inividual tracks or as part of the sound design process but if I'm going to go through the bother of setting up a hardware aux it's going to be for the BAM. 

 

 

I guess the short way of describing it would be imagine Valhalla Vintage Verb as a hardware unit with the extra richness that a mostly analog signal path can add if it's well designed.  Overdriving the inputs sounds great.  The filters sound great.  The modulation is very basic but sounds great.  I haven't gotten a sound out of it yet that I didn't like, and I've been using it a lot for about 5 months now, whenever the early February production run shipped out that's when I got mine.

 

If I had the money for it I'd probably pick up a BIM too to be honest.  I've go an Ibanez HD1000 delay/pitch shifter that a friend gave me years ago and even though it's not exactly something with a very good reputation it sounds fantastic.  8 bit digital delay with pretty aggressve analog filtering on the input, the output, and the beginning and end of the feedback loop (because there's an insert point, so there's AD/DA in the feedback loop, which means more filters - there's a block diagram screened on the top of the thing) and an analog path for the dry signal.  If it sounds as musical as it does I can only imagine how good the BIM would sound, but there's no way I could justify it unless there was some kind of quantum shift in the universe and I found myself playing big shows on a regular basis and needed something like that in a portable, reliable box.

 

 

 

On "favortie reverbs" if we can stretch the definition of "reverb" far enough to include the Lexicon Vortex that's another underappreciated gem that I would never part with.  I think they're a bit less underappreciated now than when I got mine (they seem to be around $100 on eBay these days, which is quite a bit), but they're still not terribly expensive and as long as you have an expression pedal (or just a 10k pot in a box) to control the "morph" parameter they are completely unique and a really good source of weird, time based modulation effects.  "Morph" doesn't just interpolate between parameter values, it actually interpolates between the diferent algorithms themselves, and in the middle positions it can get utterly bizarre, and range from very subtle to completely out o control self oscillation that overdrives its own output section.

 

It also uses PWM converters instead of the common PCM (no idea if the DSP uses PWM encoding or not) and I don't known i that's the reason but the converters on it sound amazing for something that was essentially a budget line box for Lexicon. I'd have no qualms about running an entire mix through it if I had a reason to (I haven't yet).  I've been meaning to buy a second one for years but I never seem to actually do it when I have the money.

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