Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[zlemflolia]

8 minutes ago, sweepstakes said:

OK, so build the code for free (which does precisely the thing the prospective customers want in precisely the way they want it) and then start sniping the capitalists' customers. And make sure you talk to the ones with the wallets. If you somehow manage to do this with sufficient precision, scale, and communication skills, then in theory you can destroy the profitability of the software industry. Best of luck!

Never heard of it, but if this is so very standard, then why don't you stop jumping up and down and stomping your feet and just post a link? "If you build it they will come", etc.

Your suggestion doesn't do what you claim it does.  There is no way to create the system I've proposed at the same scale as the current capitalist software industry in parallel to try to catch up

What is it you want a link to?
 

8 minutes ago, sweepstakes said:

What's the dilemma?

I think there are like 5 or 6 different things being conflated in this thread where somehow the conclusion is simply "capitalism is bad". Taken one-by-one, I would almost certainly agree with a point or two being posited here, but en masse it feels like the guy on the corner screaming at passers by.

Smart and informed vs dumb and uninformed decisions.  There's no way to make such a partition of decisions under capitalism since the incentives do not align with smart informed choices

 

[zlemflolia]

1 minute ago, chenGOD said:

A) No they can’t. Not to meet demand on a global scale (enterprise simply means work or project, nothing to do with an economic theory). Leadership and decision making is required, otherwise you get stalled in process. Democratic processes on projects will be far less efficient than having specialized roles, leading to waste and delay. 
 

B) This is 100% inaccurate, as any cursory glance at economic history will show. As well, we have the benefit of looking at communist economies (I’m not talking about political side of things here) and we can make the comparison based on that history. 
 

C) Socialist countries fall prey to the same issue, with even worse outcomes, and worse mechanisms to resolve bad leadership. 
 

D) Central planning is an even worse example of how to develop an economy, again, as any reading of economic history would show. 
 

E) So yeah, not a great outcome.  

Yes they can.  It requires central planning to calculate the actual requirements of production.  How many engineers are working on things which will never have any positive impact on humanity?  Many.  It's done in the name of maintaining markets and finding new markets.  How many engineers are working on things that actively harm humanity?  Many.  The solution is exiting market dynamics through central planning

There are no communist economies in history at scale to study, only socialist attempts to reach communism

With direct democratic cybernetic socialism the requirement of leadership for coordination can be eliminated through computational generation of required labor inputs and outputs based on goals

Central planning has never happened in the modern age of supercomputers.  The USSR did not have enough computing power to do like-kind economic calculations with precision at scale.  We do now.

"So yeah, not a great outcome" and with this you expose your cards.  Generating value for others is the purpose of society.  When we generate value for others we are able to consume the value others generate for us as a byproduct.  Under capitalism this relationship is perverted into generating value for those who own the means of production, which is not the greater society, but a literal caste of elite rich people.

[zlemflolia]

Capitalist shilling is not only harmful but it's disgusting.  Imagine sitting here coming up with arguments to justify a caste system where the people at the top get to be totalitarian dictators, and justifying it based on trivial points like "each dictatorship is separated into individual companies" and "the dictatorships are controlled a little bit by the public's right to engage in electoral democracy to enact regulations" when it literally never works.  Bullshit European social democratic arguments are also hilarious given that they all depend entirely upon the US military enforcing the global capitalist imperialist order to allow those supposedly egalitarian societies to benefit from the extraction of resources from the third world and global south

[Hugh Mughnus]

You’ve drank a shit ton of fucking kool-aid Zeff and seem incredibly detached from reality and historical evidence.

Why not start a comrade pls thread instead of shittying up every thread with extremist views that the vast majority of grounded members disagree with since they hold their sanity and logic?

[ignatius]

11 minutes ago, Stickfigger said:

Is this the thread where we are fighting about Commas, or the one where we are fighting about Commies?

 

[zlemflolia]

33 minutes ago, Hugh Mughnus said:

You’ve drank a shit ton of fucking kool-aid Zeff and seem incredibly detached from reality and historical evidence.

Why not start a comrade pls thread instead of shittying up every thread with extremist views that the vast majority of grounded members disagree with since they hold their sanity and logic?

I think you'll find that the vast majority of posts on the topic are not by me, but by the people responding to me.  You just dislike my position on the topic which is contrary to theirs.  If you're wanting an echo chamber where only their posts exists, well that's essentially anywhere you go, and you can just skip mine and read their responses instead.  If you want the topic to not be discussed at all, that's, due to this post count ratio, a question for other members moreso than it is for me.  I'm very happy for you to form the WATMM Posters Anti-Communist Union Of Ignoring Me

Edited December 18, 2020 by cyanobacteria

[sweepstakes]

19 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

I'm very happy for you to form the WATMM Posters Anti-Communist Union Of Ignoring Me

Thank you for this

[chenGOD]

“direct democratic cybernetic socialism”

mmmm democratic socialism, but it’s cyber. 

[ignatius]

20 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

“direct democratic cybernetic socialism”

mmmm democratic socialism, but it’s cyber. 

maybe this is what the russians are delivering to america with the solar winds hack?

[Amen Warrior]

Speaking of open source software I wrote a twitter bot yesterday that replies "haha that is such a cool and funny opinion" every time people like peter hitchens, toby young, paul joseph watson etc tweet.

Where should I share it if github is capitalist scum comrades?

[chenGOD]

6 hours ago, Amen Warrior said:

Where should I share it if github is capitalist scum comrades?

pornhub?

[zero]

back to discussing the world's #1 president...it's getting down to the 11th hour, so once again, the discussion about donnie invoking the Insurrection Act is rearing its stupid head:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/18/trump-insurrection-act-presidency-447986

Quote

An 1807 law invoked only in the most violent circumstances is now a rallying cry for the MAGA-ites most committed to the fantasy that Donald Trump will never leave office.

The law, the Insurrection Act, allows the president to deploy troops to suppress domestic uprisings — not to overturn elections.

I can only imagine how the discussion would go between donald and top military leaders...

"hello military? yes this is donald. I'd like to order the troops to stop the steal please. and can you send room service to bring me another diet coke while you're at it? excellent"

[brian trageskin]

14 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

cybersocialist

[Nebraska]

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/17/947540932/atlantic-city-is-offering-bidders-the-chance-to-blow-up-a-former-trump-casino

[ignatius]

the whitehouse still hasn't said a word about the biggest most damaging hack ever. 

fucking complicit bitches. 

[zero]

23 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/17/947540932/atlantic-city-is-offering-bidders-the-chance-to-blow-up-a-former-trump-casino

lol... bids are already up to $55k

this almost reeks of some sort don jr. type scam, where the trump family actually get a chunk of the $

[Psychotronic]

15 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

I think you'll find that the vast majority of posts on the topic are not by me, but by the people responding to me.  You just dislike my position on the topic which is contrary to theirs.  If you're wanting an echo chamber where only their posts exists, well that's essentially anywhere you go, and you can just skip mine and read their responses instead.  If you want the topic to not be discussed at all, that's, due to this post count ratio, a question for other members moreso than it is for me.  I'm very happy for you to form the WATMM Posters Anti-Communist Union Of Ignoring Me

I mostly accept your narrative, but you misjudge the echo chamber problem. Everyone and their mothers minds are already echo chambers. The more self reflection anyone does, the worse it gets. Echo chambers on the net are just the metallurgic fusion of these chambers. It's all giant brain bubbles, everywhere. You cannot escape, because society drank from little bottle in its shaving kit and uses social media as a coagulation system to finally end up with a stroke.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Psychotronic

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, ignatius said:

the whitehouse still hasn't said a word about the biggest most damaging hack ever. 

fucking complicit bitches. 

Apparently since he couldn't get mexico to pay for the wall...

[ignatius]

6 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Apparently since he couldn't get mexico to pay for the wall...

yeah.. read about that.. not a good look!

i'm sure there's more we'll hear about in the coming weeks. 

[may be rude]

5 hours ago, ignatius said:

the whitehouse still hasn't said a word about the biggest most damaging hack ever. 

fucking complicit bitches. 

that this went on for months, and that they accessed so many networks, and that they were covering their tracks and creating backdoors... it's really bad. 

and it was some private contractor who finally discovered the intrusion. it's like the US defense agencies that should have caught this earlier or prevented it weren't operating at 100%. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by very honest

[hijexx]

There's probably an infosec thread somewhere but too lazy to look. This is a decent summary of the hack.

 

 

[EdamAnchorman]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/12/jared-kushner-campaign-shell-company

Quote

OOPS: JARED KUSHNER REPORTEDLY CREATED A SHELL COMPANY TO SECRETLY PAY TRUMP FAMILY MEMBERS AND SPEND HALF THE CAMPAIGN’S CASH

The article notes that it's possible that no laws were broken but really, what's the chance of that?!

[Hi Guys]

You’re allowed to funnel campaign money into shell companies to spend on whatever? That’s not illegal? Ok! I give up! 

1 hour ago, randomsummer said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/12/jared-kushner-campaign-shell-company

The article notes that it's possible that no laws were broken but really, what's the chance of that?!

 

[ignatius]

1 hour ago, Upset man said:

You’re allowed to funnel campaign money into shell companies to spend on whatever? That’s not illegal? Ok! I give up! 

 

drain the swamp!  lols.. 

i think mishandling campaign cash is by itself a law breaking act however it seems like everyone does it so it's a slap on the wrist or something. unless, it's used as money laundering or to pay off someone in a coverup or other illegal shit. but i think the RNC must know about this. it's a lot of money. someone had to know about $600+ million being moved around. and i don't know the fine print.. with PACs and Super Pacs you can kinda do anything w/the money which is what the "stop the steal" thing is about really. 

but, if they're just pocketing the campaign funds from the RNC that seems like it could be illegal. of course.. there's always fine print ya know.. so we'll see. 

 

[ignatius]