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Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)


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4 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

Bitcoin in particular is orders of magnitude above anything else right now due to its mathematical purity.  it's completely free of ideology or human baggage

I’m sorry, but this is unmitigated horseshit. 

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3 hours ago, usagi said:

if it doesn't have the same baggage how is it in the same category or even comparable? simply on account of being a kind of insult? well shit, I guess we shouldn't cuss or lol at people's wilful stupidity at all then, that'll be fun. WATMM 3.0.

I think you are being "willfully stupid" here with your insistentence on this. Your autistic vs. autist excuse is a lot like the gay-ghey thing that never caught on. Now that the gay community has a strong voice we're going to switch insults over to a group that's inherently somewhat voiceless (i.e., defined by social difficulties among other things)? Weak, and disingenuous.

I'm sorry you can't see this with your supreme non-autist Tru Human™ gut feeling, but maybe try applying reason for once.

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Geez, he voiced his opinion. Just let it rest already. No need to go into the group identity politics nonsense. We're a bunch of bickering assholes. Don't even think the "politically correct" win means anything. It just sidesteps the fact we're a bunch of assholes. A politically correct asshole, is still an asshole. I'd argue worse even. Because there's an inherent justification to act like an asshole.

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6 minutes ago, goDel said:

Geez, he voiced his opinion. Just let it rest already. No need to go into the group identity politics nonsense. We're a bunch of bickering assholes. Don't even think the "politically correct" win means anything. It just sidesteps the fact we're a bunch of assholes. A politically correct asshole, is still an asshole. I'd argue worse even. Because there's an inherent justification to act like an asshole.

It's not identity politics or political correctness, you can't in one moment say that slurs against certain races are bad, but that slurs against groups of people who are not neurotypical are okay because they don't have historical baggage, because if you perpetuate that idea forward long enough guess what, the new slurs will develop historical baggage.  You have to be smarter than that

Furthermore even though the word autist doesn't have historical baggage and in fact it's a relatively new word, discrimination against mental illnesses and atypical mental modes of existence is not only a deeply historical trend across all human societies, but still apparently still so pervasive that woke anti-racist people are unaware of how it's a bad thing to use slurs against it.  This isn't super SJW identity politics it's first paragraph wikipedia level stuff so let's not propagate BS and pretend like it's obscure and not important, and also don't make it personal when it's not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism_(discrimination)

Quote

Mentalism or sanism describes discrimination and oppression against a mental trait or condition a person has, or is judged to have. This discrimination may or may not be characterized in terms of mental disorder or cognitive impairment. The discrimination is based on numerous factors such as stereotypes about neurodivergence, for example autism spectrum, learning disorders, ADHD, bipolar, schizophrenia, and personality disorders, specific behavioral phenomena such as stuttering and tics, or intellectual disability.

Edited by Zeffolia
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1 hour ago, manmower said:

I think you are being "willfully stupid" here with your insistentence on this. Your autistic vs. autist excuse is a lot like the gay-ghey thing that never caught on. Now that the gay community has a strong voice we're going to switch insults over to a group that's inherently somewhat voiceless (i.e., defined by social difficulties among other things)? Weak, and disingenuous.

I'm sorry you can't see this with your supreme non-autist Tru Human™ gut feeling, but maybe try applying reason for once.

hey, I didn't say anything superior about myself anywhere, I am describing a problem with neurotic young men as I see it and as I have also dealt with previously. I'm not far out on the spectrum, but I'm not referring to those cases with this usage of the a-word either.

I don't get your comparison, being gay is not a mental problem you need to address before it eats you up, whereas you do become responsible for continuing to indulge in your "neurotic" (how about that instead) behaviour at some point when you are being called out for it and just double down on it further. not sure exactly what the gay/ghey thing is you're referring to but ok, maybe autist vs autistic is a bit weaselly.

it surprises me how upset you guys are about this word. on WATMM. yes it's a troll term and you wouldn't really use it in grownup conversation irl, but it's being used to describe a broader social phenomenon and to poke fun at people who are ultimately responsible for their choices, not the undeserved far out on the spectrum who are just trying to function. if you feel that this usage of the word stigmatises people in the latter camp, I apologise. but I do not apologise for people in the former camp, who really need to get their shit together unless we're fine with more these shootings.

I'd be glad to take suggestions on a fairer term that describes the same problem.

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1 hour ago, Zeffolia said:

It's not identity politics or political correctness, you can't in one moment say that slurs against certain races are bad, but that slurs against groups of people who are not neurotypical are okay because they don't have historical baggage, because if you perpetuate that idea forward long enough guess what, the new slurs will develop historical baggage.  You have to be smarter than that

that part's fair, however you underestimate why racial slurs typically have so much more baggage than any other kind: there is usually a long, violent history (pogroms, lynchings) of systematic oppression behind them that is immediately conjured up and thrown in the person's face whenever the word's used. it's the blood that's been spilled which makes it a tad more serious than calling someone an autist on the internet.

1 hour ago, Zeffolia said:

I think you posted the wrong link. unless you're trying to convince me David Blaine has been unfairly discriminated against his whole life.

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brilliant? i mean, it's common sense. most of the criticism i've seen of the debates was exactly what Bernie said. 

oh, we're using brilliant like Ridley Scott would use it. brilliant! 

:cerious:

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22 minutes ago, auxien said:

brilliant? i mean, it's common sense. most of the criticism i've seen of the debates was exactly what Bernie said. 

oh, we're using brilliant like Ridley Scott would use it. brilliant! 

:cerious:

Ah well, I honestly didn't know that was the general consensus in the US because from a foreigners point of view it's a fucking circus. I just liked the fact that it was the first thing he said. 

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35 minutes ago, auxien said:

epic.

the first thing you said after stumbling in, brilliant.

 

 

 

:tongue:

Hahaha, well, I was just excited to see him on the Joe Rogan podcast. I hadn’t even watched it at that point. 

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8 hours ago, usagi said:

that part's fair, however you underestimate why racial slurs typically have so much more baggage than any other kind: there is usually a long, violent history (pogroms, lynchings) of systematic oppression behind them that is immediately conjured up and thrown in the person's face whenever the word's used. it's the blood that's been spilled which makes it a tad more serious than calling someone an autist on the internet.

I think you posted the wrong link. unless you're trying to convince me David Blaine has been unfairly discriminated against his whole life.

It's definitely the right link, evidently you didn't read it.  And aren't you aware of what happened to people with various mental abnormalities in the holocaust? To deny the long history of discrimination against non-neurotypical people is historically ignorant, I'm going to guess you're posting in bad faith at this point

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regarding mental illness in america.. i think it's very typical to see how the conversation is centered around protecting other people from mass shooters or people who will become violent instead of actually helping people with mental illness live better lives and be part of society. it's fucking unsurprising that no one is really talking about in the media how people with mental illness are largely not considered beyond making them convenient for the masses should they be encountered in any way. 

i'm patiently waiting for someone in the media or in an interview to mention that maybe we should focus on mental health for the betterment of the people who actually have mental illness and are suffering. sure, several mental health advocates have brought up that the vast majority of people suffering w/mental health issues are not violent in any way and often are barely motivated to leave the house and be part of society in any way. 

the whole mental health discussion in relation to mass shootings is missing the fucking point and typical of america in so many ways. 

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I don't want to turn this into what has become my usual thing lately (apparently), but I really wonder about the likelihood of our ever going back, of things really getting better, of people fixing their problems, of America's chances of redeeming itself. From what I feel like I see (I realize the hedginess of that hedge), given my admittedly anecdotal experiences, the racists are only emboldened, but the smarter ones know how to find the line and tow it just so. Everyone's really worried about Trump or Mass Shooter #259 or whatever, but those aren't the real problems, now are they? It's annoying to have some pedant come along and remind us all that these are symptoms and not the underlying disease, but again, how likely is it that things are going to get better? Trump: he's just the beginning. And as for the television's so-called plan... Oh, right. Just elect Bernie, and the kiddos will all get free college. Despite how much I'd love to see Bernie take office (setting aside my qualms with his general outlook regarding higher education), I doubt in my heart, when I'm sober, that he'll be elected. I used to think that the racist types were all just going to die out, that younger generations raised on Sesame Street would all be more enlightened, but I now see young men and women entering college who are fairly unashamed in their sporting of the MAGA hat, or in denouncing abortion as murder, or even entertaining ideas of racial superiority. I'm not kidding. It's really shocking to me, but maybe I've just always been gullible and naive, even more so when I convinced myself that I had shaken off that childish weakness. 

For more despair, please visit my thread on the Apocalypse. (Are shameless plugs like this acceptable? I haven't seen anyone else do this.) 

I'm serious about wanting these thoughts to be added to this thread on "Now that Trump's president", by the way. 

Thanks, all. 

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