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Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)


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6 minutes ago, ignatius said:

the trump cruise type thing has happened several times over the last 4 or 5 years. they get all hyped up to wave their flags from their trucks and come drive around portland. most of them are from washington. don’t even live here. usually it’s just posturing and stupidity but they have attacked people in the past. one year some gay kid got beat up on the sidewalk.  it’s really thug bully type shit. a way to puff out their chests and them go home and drink a beer and talk about themselves like they're tough people or something. 

it's like you're at a BBQ w/a bunch of friends who have kids and the kids are slap fighting and not listening and so the BBQ gets ruined for the adults. 

portland is well known for being a very open tolerant livable city where people can be themselves and that's that.. so it's a target for intolerant racists who want bully people. it's trolling plain and simple. 

So that makes it ok to execute people on the street for a different political ideology?

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enough of this pissweak white apologism, at long last. apparently you haven't paid attention the last 5 years and understood the scale of what has occurred in that time. go take a cursory look at the 

A bunch of entitled/threatened/fearful white people have allowed themselves to be brainwashed to support the egotism of a common opportunist / cheap tie salesman. Now they are resorting to violen

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What pisses me off is that police EVERYWHERE are hampering BLM protests every step of the way but giving Trump rallies free reign. 

I'm now less hopeful about this election.

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1 hour ago, chartnok said:

Dude was just protecting himself against people with knives and bats, looters, people who kill 5 year old's if they think it's a Trump supporter

 

 

1 hour ago, chartnok said:

Dude was just protecting himself against people with knives and bats, looters, people who kill 5 year old's if they think it's a Trump supporter

 

 

he doesn't cite the video he describes. i checked some coverage and it seems little is known about the portland homicide victim's story. maybe i'm missing some reporting? tim pool doesn't attribute the sources he references in his program, there. the body was found shortly after the trump convoy left downtown. the leader of the dude's gang was tight-lipped but confirmed the victim was in his rightist gang, and said he was a good friend of the gang.

rightists misrepresenting the blm movement as rioters is grotesque. it concertedly dodges reality. the protests are overwhelmingly peaceful and most crime occuring in proximity to them is attributed to rightist counter-protestors, infiltrators or opportunists. fox insisting on focusing on the miniscule segment of instances that could be described as riotous (literally well below 1% of movement protests) pushes on the audience an alternate reality outlook that coincidentally props up the political party that rightist media strategized their business model around sustaining. 

pool is a particularly energetic creature of the rightist infosphere. he may act serious and wear a beanie but he doesn't check his info and likely doesn't know how to check his info.

Edited by very honest
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1 hour ago, chartnok said:

So that makes it ok to execute people on the street for a different political ideology?

did i say that? i was just giving context. these things don't happen in a void. i hope they catch the shooter. 

but your argument doesn't add up. look in the mirror. read back your own posts. the guy in kinosha shouldn't have been there running around w/an assault weapon. 

also, the protests in portland and various scuffles between proud boys and antifa or normie BLM protesters have been back and forth for _years_ here. at some point some of this became personal for some people on both sides. little grudges.. like gangs or soccer hooligans. 

and the police have typically been very one sided.. supporting the proud boy types and even coordinating with them while arresting left protesters. the police also have not bothered to track down the alt right ex military guy who threw fucking pipe bombs a few weeks ago and blew some shit up in the near by park to the down town protests.. not to mention the guy who pulled a gun at that patriot prayer rally and pointed it at counter protesters.. so.. the escalation was inevitable since the cops are absent on so many things. 

that being said.. it sucks someone got killed. it's bad all around. a lot of this is local and unique to portland. 

if/when they catch the shooter we'll know more about his motives and who the fuck he is. i wouldn't be surprised if he's some boogaloo boy since they tend to hate cops. he could just be some asshole. 

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8 minutes ago, ignatius said:

did i say that? i was just giving context. these things don't happen in a void. i hope they catch the shooter. 

but your argument doesn't add up. look in the mirror. read back your own posts. the guy in kinosha shouldn't have been there running around w/an assault weapon. 

also, the protests in portland and various scuffles between proud boys and antifa or normie BLM protesters have been back and forth for _years_ here. at some point some of this became personal for some people on both sides. little grudges.. like gangs or soccer hooligans. 

and the police have typically been very one sided.. supporting the proud boy types and even coordinating with them while arresting left protesters. the police also have not bothered to track down the alt right ex military guy who threw fucking pipe bombs a few weeks ago and blew some shit up in the near by park to the down town protests.. not to mention the guy who pulled a gun at that patriot prayer rally and pointed it at counter protesters.. so.. the escalation was inevitable since the cops are absent on so many things. 

that being said.. it sucks someone got killed. it's bad all around. a lot of this is local and unique to portland. 

if/when they catch the shooter we'll know more about his motives and who the fuck he is. i wouldn't be surprised if he's some boogaloo boy since they tend to hate cops. he could just be some asshole. 

Alright, I hope things works itself out in America. Peace

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1 hour ago, very honest said:

the protests are overwhelmingly peaceful and most crime occuring in proximity to them is attributed to rightist counter-protestors, infiltrators or opportunists.

this is nonsense. yes there are large numbers of people peacefully protesting, mostly during the daytime, but it's clear there's also a committed core of shit heads on both sides stirring things up and wrecking shit, mostly at night.

this isn't being done solely by infiltrators, looting is mostly just done by locals who want to get some free shit; property damage, smashing windows, starting fires, etc. has been a regular tactic of black bloc antifa ppl for decades, mostly non-locals - who travel around from city to city, followed by/following the opposite shower of cunts on the right, they're just stepping up the intensity in recent months. you're incredibly naive if you think the far right are the only ones causing all this damage, or even that they're the primary cause. it's obvious this is happening to anyone paying proper attention, many people aren't even denying it, and morons like this are even justifying it:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting

 

 

Edited by caze
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nothing good will come from any of this, Trump isn't going do anything they want, and it's likely if they keep it up they'll just ensure another Trump victory - which they probably want, because they're mostly white privileged larping assholes and they won't be the ones effected by another 4 years of Trump, they hate the democrats as much as the republicans anyway. luckily Biden isn't on the side of the defund the police/acab wing of the democrats (which is barely a wing, more of a rump - it's mostly the far left outside of the party driving this), and he's been relatively vocal about taking a sensible approach to police/criminal justice reform rather than the dumb shit most activists are pushing, so with any luck he can get this message across and reassure the majority of middle america which is getting increasingly freaked out about all this. Biden's core message on this needs to be a return to normality, Trump will just see this chaos continue. 

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3 hours ago, ignatius said:

the trump cruise type thing has happened several times over the last 4 or 5 years. they get all hyped up to wave their flags from their trucks and come drive around portland. most of them are from washington. don’t even live here. usually it’s just posturing and stupidity but they have attacked people in the past. one year some gay kid got beat up on the sidewalk.  it’s really thug bully type shit. a way to puff out their chests and them go home and drink a beer and talk about themselves like they're tough people or something. 

it's like you're at a BBQ w/a bunch of friends who have kids and the kids are slap fighting and not listening and so the BBQ gets ruined for the adults. 

portland is well known for being a very open tolerant livable city where people can be themselves and that's that.. so it's a target for intolerant racists who want bully people. it's trolling plain and simple. 

It seems to be way more overt and aggressive in blue states: Cali, Pacific NW, the NYC "regatta." Like this stuff is here in Texas too but I've noticed it's only in organized conveys to specifically provoke or upset. 

For example the one trip I took this summer was to Bolivar Penisula, it's a fairly rural and remote section of Texas coastline, almost all beach home rentals and docks. Hung out there with my father and brother in law. It's always been prone to Confederate flag shit-kickers, rednecks, and oil & gas CHUDs but this year it was MAGA, blue lives matter, and "come and take" 2A shit all over. Even teen kids, the kind who listen to late 90s butt rock while drive their 4x4 Polaris toys. As my wife quipped "lol, and they think liberals are the weird ones"

The day I saw the most? Fucking Juneteenth. That was no coincidence. Bush era sucked but I'll say this, I didn't have to deal with people driving in trucks with flags saying FUCK YOUR FEELINGS and staring me down hoping I'd react. In front of my kids too. I just completely ignored them while drinking a beer. When they are old enough to read it'll be impossible to not have to explain to them that some people are godawful. It was funny my kid likes flags a lot and wanted to get one but besides a Jimmy Buffet Margarittaville flag all of the flags for sale were right-wing jingoistic horseshit. I was like "nah, these are all kind of bad flags, expect the parrot one" Next day he was like "let's get a nice flag later, like an American flag or something." 

Edited by joshuatxuk
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32 minutes ago, caze said:

nothing good will come from any of this, Trump isn't going do anything they want, and it's likely if they keep it up they'll just ensure another Trump victory - which they probably want, because they're mostly white privileged larping assholes and they won't be the ones effected by another 4 years of Trump, they hate the democrats as much as the republicans anyway. luckily Biden isn't on the side of the defund the police/acab wing of the democrats (which is barely a wing, more of a rump - it's mostly the far left outside of the party driving this), and he's been relatively vocal about taking a sensible approach to police/criminal justice reform rather than the dumb shit most activists are pushing, so with any luck he can get this message across and reassure the majority of middle america which is getting increasingly freaked out about all this. Biden's core message on this needs to be a return to normality, Trump will just see this chaos continue. 

Yeah, I'm afraid these protests getting out of hand work in Trumps favor. 

BTW, even Michael Moore is warning Trump might get re-elected again. Getting annoyed with people protesting their way into another Trump term, tbh. Looks to me the US has lost its mind.

Quote

“Sorry to have to provide the reality check again,” he said.

Moore, one of few political observers to predict Trump’s victory over Hillary Clinton in 2016, said that “enthusiasm for Trump is off the charts” in key areas compared with the Democratic party nominee, Joe Biden.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/29/michael-moore-donald-trump-repeat-2016-warning

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49 minutes ago, caze said:
2 hours ago, very honest said:

the protests are overwhelmingly peaceful and most crime occuring in proximity to them is attributed to rightist counter-protestors, infiltrators or opportunists.

this is nonsense. yes there are large numbers of people peacefully protesting, mostly during the daytime, but it's clear there's also a committed core of shit heads on both sides stirring things up and wrecking shit, mostly at night.

there have been protests in hundreds of cities and towns in the US for months. right after george floyd was murdered, tempers were high and a number of protests got out of hand in the first week, mostly the first weekend. after jacob blake was killed, again passions are high, people are furious before they cool down.

i don't think any scientific study has been done, analyzing statistics of peaceful versus nonviolent events, but i suspect one would show organic violence at less than 1 percent.

the right embraced their blm-demonization narrative because it was an escape from news cycles about covid, which were damaging them on a daily basis.

kenosha certainly was a flair-up. my comment was directed at tim pool acting like rioting has been a huge problem for months. that's what is nonsense.

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aye aye aye.. 

this is from a while ago.. the essay.. worth checking out if you haven't 

 

Edited by ignatius
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Have you listened to any of Robert Evan's podcasts, he's done an excellent series on cops in his "Behind The Bastards" series

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18 minutes ago, joshuatxuk said:

Have you listened to any of Robert Evan's podcasts, he's done an excellent series on cops in his "Behind The Bastards" series

i've had it bookmarked for a while but haven't dug in yet. 

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Just now, ignatius said:

i've had it bookmarked for a while but haven't dug in yet. 

their excellent, his opening and closing episodes to "it could happen here" are extremely relevant too

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15 hours ago, very honest said:

i don't think any scientific study has been done, analyzing statistics of peaceful versus nonviolent events, but i suspect one would show organic violence at less than 1 percent.

It doesn't matter what % of protestors are violent vs non-violent, all that matters is how much damage is being done, how many businesses destroyed, lives ruined, whole communities fucked up... and ultimately, what the perception of all this is with voters in the midwest/rust belt.

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32 minutes ago, caze said:

It doesn't matter what % of protestors are violent vs non-violent, all that matters is how much damage is being done, how many businesses destroyed, lives ruined, whole communities fucked up... and ultimately, what the perception of all this is with voters in the midwest/rust belt.

i think it matters that the only part of blm the right pays attention to is the less than 1% in which some riot.

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45 minutes ago, very honest said:

i think it matters that the only part of blm the right pays attention to is the less than 1% in which some riot.

it matters this is politics: everyone has their own idea of what they think matters and how much. it's subjective. you could use polling data to see what most would think. as opposed to inventing your own theories on what people think. that's usually not a very productive way.

here's some data about BLM. nothing about these recent events. but obviously, it takes time to measure that objectively. And by the time you could measure it, it's probably 4 news-cycles in the past. (in other words, you're better off ignoring the hype of the current news-cycle)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/support-for-black-lives-matter-surged-during-protests-but-is-waning-among-white-americans/

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This decline in public opinion is consistent with a long line of political science research that tells us that the effects of events on public opinion tend to last only for as long as they are at the forefront of the country’s — or, in this case, one group’s — collective consciousness. That also means that without prolonged activism and sustained media attention, the impact of this year’s protests on white public opinion could evaporate entirely.

 

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these people who claim to collect guns so they can topple an authoritarian have been tricked into supporting police militarization and brutality and an autocrat himself. that's fox/rightist brainwashing, in the states.

we have an unmoored political party attached to a disingenuous media ecosystem. their platform drifts like an iceberg, pilotted by ratings and maybe some strange, deceptive political strategizing.

we end up with people thinking it matters that the fbi suspected flynn would lie before they interviewed him, but don't think it matters that flynn lied to the fbi about his discussions with kislyak about sanctions. they think it matters that strzok texted page about not liking trump, but not that manafort's close associate was a russian spy, working closely on trump campaign matters during manafort's time as campaign manger.

i don't shirk to public opinion. public opinion in the united states is kind of schizophrenic, right now. there is brainwashing going on, and people need to hear honest, informed takes. people kind of need for others to engage them on what actually matters, regarding political issues.

i take the point on being data-centric, @goDel, but appealling to the masses on what matters? it's not that simple. the US is in a perilous position of brainwashing, right now. it's a horror movie to be in touch with the facts and to behold red states in which everyone is a fox-head, thoroughly stewed in a mythos that deflects facts of gravity.

white supremacists fantasize about coming race wars. timothy mcveigh actually thought that his attack on the feds would encourage others to destabilize society so that, eventually, there could be a race war and i guess that issue could get settled or something. it's this weird, pent-up, subconscious energy derived from being descended from oppressors and feeling insecure about unpaid retribution. 

there have been many cases of white supremacists capitalizing on blm protests and taking actions to escalate confrontation and unrest. fox and the president are feeding this. trump wants unrest to worsen and has only worked to provoke that. he wants to not address the legitimate grievance of the demonstrators but to forcefully quash their movement. 

these are really dangerous times. we're entering flu season with 1,000 dying of covid/day. we're entering a depression. trump has been abusing power and carrying out plots to interfere with american democratic elections.

biden spoke up about kenosha and said all violence is wrong and he's right. i'm not pro-riotting, i just am seeing a massive misrepresentation going on and i just can't stand by, to be seen as tacitly verifying it. the right is harping on a theme of there being an unrest problem, but what i'm seeing from the right is that they are provoking unrest. they needed an other, they found one, and they seem rather bent on keeping it.

Edited by very honest
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It's the same tactic media used for reporting on Portland - they made it look like a warzone, when in reality, there was a small area (6 blocks or so?) that was impacted, the violence happened only at night, and it was the same hundred or so "protestors" who came out every night. During the day there were protests every day with thousands of people that were peaceful and without issue.

@goDel and @very honest you guys are arguing the same point from slightly different angles. Public perception absolutely matters: and the news cycle is a real beast. More importantly is what the media reports - and they report on what sells. Which is not people demonstrating peacefully. Ultimately though, sustained peaceful demonstration along with voting en masse for more progressive candidates or even just candidates who will return some sense of stability to US politics is the only way out of this mess. Once you get to that stage, you can start working on the other issues, but you need that base of an ability to have mature dialogue, with goals that will prioritize people over corporations.

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