Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[apriorion]

I remember seeing a constitutional law theorist talk about this possibility a little while back. Are they trying to tear the country to shreds? I can't imagine that the public will take such a result peacefully. Not that I want to see such a violent turn of events, but it's just implausible that things won't turn out that way, provided that enough congressional Republicans vote with Hawley. The thing is, such a turn of events wouldn't be anything nearly as orderly as a second civil war, which is what some of these vile Trump supporters are predicting or coveting. I would just expect there to be unconstrained proliferation of mass violence of civilian against civilian. That would be horrific. 

Am I missing something? I had to be committing a causal slippery slope fallacy, but it strikes me that Dobbs and friends would be seriously naive to not expect a serious civilian catastrophe, should congressional Republicans go down that path. Am I being a worry-wort? I've been accused of that many times, though to be fair to myself, I'm often right about my worries (not even close to 100%, admittedly, but I've been right often enough to not shake the disposition). 

*hate to be (ugh, typos)

[mister miller]

20 hours ago, apriorion said:

Am I missing something? I had to be committing a causal slippery slope fallacy, but it strikes me that Dobbs and friends would be seriously naive to not expect a serious civilian catastrophe, should congressional Republicans go down that path. Am I being a worry-wort? I've been accused of that many times, though to be fair to myself, I'm often right about my worries (not even close to 100%, admittedly, but I've been right often enough to not shake the disposition). 

I'm with you here. I don't see how it doesn't end in a civil conflict if these election results are overturned due to some wacky loophole in the constitution. The thing is (and I hope I'm wrong), it seems many of the extremist Trump folks want this outcome. Like they're champing at the bit to get out and kill libz. 

IDK maybe I just spend too much time online laughing at the Qanon ppl, but it does seem like many of them think that outcome would be like fulfilling a prophecy or something. Its fucked up.

[may be rude]

16 minutes ago, mister miller said:

I'm with you here. I don't see how it doesn't end in a civil conflict if these election results are overturned due to some wacky loophole in the constitution. The thing is (and I hope I'm wrong), it seems many of the extremist Trump folks want this outcome. Like they're champing at the bit to get out and kill libz. 

IDK maybe I just spend too much time online laughing at the Qanon ppl, but it does seem like many of them think that outcome would be like fulfilling a prophecy or something. Its fucked up.

amazing swaths of the population are being herded like morons by manipulators. some of the manipulators are foreign enemies of the state. some are domestic self-seekers in media and government who gain power and money by their participation in the collective deception movement. 

the media used to shephard public thought. flawed as it may have been, mainstream media, before the internet, filtered out some portion of thought contagions. this head has been cut off, and individuals, lacking fact-checking mechanisms common within journalism, are exposed to a hostile environment. a rapid evolution of bad actors exploiting the vulnerabilities and developing systems by which to streamline and reinforce this manipulation has taken place.

it's not that hard to defeat bad arguments. social influence follows exponential curves. we just need to engage in debate.

[Nebraska]

proud boys start the new year by disavowing the police

 

[Guest]

https://www.cotton.senate.gov/news/press-releases/cotton-statement-on-joint-session-of-congress-

Quote

Washington, D.C. — Senator Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) released the following statement on the joint session of Congress later this week: 

“I share the concerns of many Arkansans about irregularities in the presidential election, especially in states that rushed through election-law changes to relax standards for voting-by-mail. I also share their disappointment with the election results. I therefore support a commission to study the last election and propose reforms to protect the integrity of our elections. And after Republicans win in Georgia, the Senate should also hold more hearings on these matters. All Americans deserve to have confidence in the elections that undergird our free government.

Nevertheless, the Founders entrusted our elections chiefly to the states—not Congress. They entrusted the election of our president to the people, acting through the Electoral College—not Congress. And they entrusted the adjudication of election disputes to the courts—not Congress. Under the Constitution and federal law, Congress’s power is limited to counting electoral votes submitted by the states.

If Congress purported to overturn the results of the Electoral College, it would not only exceed that power, but also establish unwise precedents. First, Congress would take away the power to choose the president from the people, which would essentially end presidential elections and place that power in the hands of whichever party controls Congress. Second, Congress would imperil the Electoral College, which gives small states like Arkansas a voice in presidential elections. Democrats could achieve their longstanding goal of eliminating the Electoral College in effect by refusing to count electoral votes in the future for a Republican president-elect. Third, Congress would take another big step toward federalizing election law, another longstanding Democratic priority that Republicans have consistently opposed.

Thus, I will not oppose the counting of certified electoral votes on January 6. I’m grateful for what the president accomplished over the past four years, which is why I campaigned vigorously for his reelection. But objecting to certified electoral votes won’t give him a second term—it will only embolden those Democrats who want to erode further our system of constitutional government.”

 

[EdamAnchorman]

2 hours ago, bupkis said:

https://www.cotton.senate.gov/news/press-releases/cotton-statement-on-joint-session-of-congress-

 

That's exactly what I am talking about in my earlier post.  These dumbasses are only going to follow the rules because they know that if they break them now, the Ds could break them in the future and possibly hurt the R party.  FFS, what about doing right for the country, your state, and the people you represent, regardless of your political affiliation?  Isn't that your fucking job, asshole?

Edited January 4, 2021 by randomsummer

[may be rude]

this is not normal.

wapo is getting hard to hack. the truth is paywalled and disinfo is free. here's the article the 10 living sec defs published

Quote

Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld are the 10 living former U.S. secretaries of defense.

As former secretaries of defense, we hold a common view of the solemn obligations of the U.S. armed forces and the Defense Department. Each of us swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We did not swear it to an individual or a party.

American elections and the peaceful transfers of power that result are hallmarks of our democracy. With one singular and tragic exception that cost the lives of more Americans than all of our other wars combined, the United States has had an unbroken record of such transitions since 1789, including in times of partisan strife, war, epidemics and economic depression. This year should be no exception.

Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived.

As senior Defense Department leaders have noted, “there’s no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of a U.S. election.” Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.

Transitions, which all of us have experienced, are a crucial part of the successful transfer of power. They often occur at times of international uncertainty about U.S. national security policy and posture. They can be a moment when the nation is vulnerable to actions by adversaries seeking to take advantage of the situation.

Given these factors, particularly at a time when U.S. forces are engaged in active operations around the world, it is all the more imperative that the transition at the Defense Department be carried out fully, cooperatively and transparently. Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.

We call upon them, in the strongest terms, to do as so many generations of Americans have done before them. This final action is in keeping with the highest traditions and professionalism of the U.S. armed forces, and the history of democratic transition in our great country.

 

 

[Braintree]

4 hours ago, randomsummer said:

That's exactly what I am talking about in my earlier post.  These dumbasses are only going to follow the rules because they know that if they break them now, the Ds could break them in the future and possibly hurt the R party.  FFS, what about doing right for the country, your state, and the people you represent, regardless of your political affiliation?  Isn't that your fucking job, asshole?

I think that if the election is overturned (which I'm quite confident will not happen), then that's the end of American democracy. Es ist kaputt. The democrats wouldn't even have a chance to retaliate. However, ending democracy in the US is against their interests optically and financially.

[EdamAnchorman]

2 hours ago, Braintree said:

I think that if the election is overturned (which I'm quite confident will not happen), then that's the end of American democracy. Es ist kaputt. The democrats wouldn't even have a chance to retaliate. However, ending democracy in the US is against their interests optically and financially.

Yeah but my point is that that dude's and the rest of the Republicans' reason for not breaking the rules and refusing to count the votes, is because they're afraid the same scenario could be used against them in the future.  Instead of the correct reason being it's against the f-ing constitution.  That's a nice peek into the mentality of these degenerates.

[Braintree]

15 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

Yeah but my point is that that dude's and the rest of the Republicans' reason for not breaking the rules and refusing to count the votes, is because they're afraid the same scenario could be used against them in the future.  Instead of the correct reason being it's against the f-ing constitution.  That's a nice peek into the mentality of these degenerates.

I understand, but it wouldn't matter is my point.

[ignatius]

 

[Rubin Farr]

 

[acid1]

Is this shit show over yet?

Please let it be over.

[TubularCorporation]

Depends on what you mean by "over"

 

The Biden administration has already been signalingthat it's not going to try to hold anyone involved accountable so once he's in office officially we'll probably stop hearing about it so much in the press.

 

But if you mea "over" in terms of going "back to normal" then no, Trump was an unexpected turning point but he's far from the beginning or end of this.

[zero]

52 minutes ago, acid1 said:

Is this shit show over yet?

nah, the show must go on. we've got a brand new excitement filled day of stop the steal events lined up for tomorrow's programming. 

[Nebraska]

Romney on his way to DC for the MAGA March gets a warm welcome from patriots

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[sweepstakes]

3 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

Romney on his way to DC for the MAGA March gets a warm welcome from patriots
 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by sweepstakes

[Nebraska]

if Pence fucks this up, he should be tried for treason

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[azatoth]

I think Trump has been huffing his own conspiratorial farts, Pence can't do shit to about the vote.

[joshuatxuk]

24 minutes ago, azatoth said:

I think Trump has been huffing his own conspiratorial farts, Pence can't do shit to about the vote.

Agreed, Pence isn't that dumb. He wants a stable post-VP career and either run again or join the fray as a pundit or lobbyist

Trump's post-election tone is a trip but it's not a shock. It's what it looks like when a person who is perpetually deluded and egomaniacal is deprived getting what they want. He's failed plenty in the past but always had another venture or some other venue to move on. This is the first time we've seen him desperately and frantically denying reality in person one tweet at a time. It's both frightening and hilarious and a reminder why this asshole had to go. 

[zero]

[Nebraska]

3 hours ago, azatoth said:

I think Trump has been huffing his own conspiratorial farts, Pence can't do shit to about the vote.

there's been a lot of talk over @ the_D about this very topic with people mainly questing why GEOTUS would use the word "if" when the silver fox is his right hand man, and other's beginning the see a problem with "the plan".

either way, pence's fate might already be sealed

 

[Nebraska]

big T at save america

 

[Nebraska]

12 hours ago, Nebraska said:

if Pence fucks this up, he should be tried for treason
 

 

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pence is about to fuck this up

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) — Pence defies Trump, says he can’t claim ‘unilateral authority’ to reject electoral votes that will make Biden president.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-national-elections-elections-ap-news-alert-government-and-politics-58b6a66b408a69d084d02e1115f590a0

patriots peacefully breaching through capital building

 

[Squee]

10 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

 

Good god.