Nebraska Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share Posted April 24, 2019 okay, but if we should be focusing on winning the election- why did we waste all that time investigating him? https://twitter.com/perlmutations/status/1120696201236500480 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3551ER Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 What I find so disheartening about this whole affair is the Orwellian levels of doublethink going on in the U.S. today. I recently moved to fringe/rural eastern North Carolina from a fairly insulated liberal enclave (triangle area) and here's what I've observed: A lot of people out here that are Trump supporters have a hard time articulating what they even think about any one thing, either to themselves or to other people, and are driven by a high degree of emotion attached to their political candidates (a very "Trump GOOD! Everyone else BAD!" sort of thing). As much as it was a parody, it's like the "Took Er Jobs!" yokels on SouthPark and I absolutely do NOT mean that I think these people are inherently stupid or even bad. It's more that they have been acculturated to a certain way of thinking, and have easily succumbed to very clever messaging that triggers their emotions (fear and anger). The thing that I find, truly, the most disturbing is the lack of language and how that translates to being unable to reason through things. I was fairly sheltered from this sort of thing where I came from, and it's painful to watch people struggle to find the words to describe even basic things. . . I can't imagine how difficult it would be to try and navigate the political arena, where a careful consideration of the issues at hand takes a certain degree of focus an understanding. . . it makes it easier to see how people can be manipulated to vote against their own interest. Alternatively: Where I came from, ironically, I saw almost the same sort of emotional attachment (fear and anger) AGAINST Trump ("Trump BAD! Republicans STUPID!"). Trying to engage people in a rationale discussion on these political issues seems to lead to, similarly, a high degree of rigidity. People dig in and become entrenched, and parrot back what they've heard as if it is fact. What I find most disturbing about this is that I'm talking about highly educated people, who have the advantage of being able to articulate their thoughts clearly, but so often use that as a way of "winning" an argument rather than trying to discover what the truth is. They would rather be right than helpful, and can be blind to the fact that what they think is "good" might actually be extremely harmful (see any video of an anti-vaxxer saying anything - most of whom are actually well educated and of middle class origins). I don't know if it's always been this way? I mean, all this sounds so Animal Farm or 1984-esque so maybe there's nothing new under the sun and I'm just recognizing it the more I pay attention? I don't know. Anyway, at least that Aphex Coachella Night 2 set was bangin'. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 ^ It's worse. Echo chamber ideology and selective knowledge is more persistent than ever. In the past things were just as bad but politics was stuff you either didn't talk about or you didn't invest in as a mere voter. One could say it was a more reserve civil discourse but it's important not to conflate this with the idea that the system was far better. People were not so much more informed as they were less loud. News was news and it was at 6pm, not 24/7 noise. If you didn't know the full facts or context, you then went with what you felt was right. Now if people don't know they stick with what they want to believe. https://www.texasobserver.org/east-texas-trump-voters-lansdale/ You are absolutely dead on about the double think and full-blown embrace of mental gymnastics. People feel emboldening by their own "truth" and whatever side of identity politics they've embraced. Those non-zealots who are apathetic or cynically voting for Trump are too discouraged by the system overall to really change their mind earnestly. It's exactly what the GOP aims for - lie until people are too worn down to fight it. The Dems haven't figured out how to accept this and change strategy. They fall into trap, as do many urban and educated liberals who still can't fathom his presidency. To be fair, it's been a hard pill to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3551ER Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 ^ MMmph. The loudness thing is interesting to think on (as is that article - thanks for sharing!). My wife says that Trump isn't necessarily inspiring a particular view in his constituents as much as giving voice to things that have lingered underneath the surface for years, and have now come screaming forth now that it's "safe" to do so (and, in part, in backlash for us having the goddamn gall to elect a black president). . . I guess it's true that we live in a world where news is now a 24 hr a day cycle of soundbites and dopamine triggers, news-tickers at the bottom of the screen screaming at us that this is URGENT this is REAL this is HAPPENING RIGHT NOW to the point that nothing is critical (or, maybe, everything is critical). .. . and you can also go on the web and in a few keystrokes find a legion of articles and people who will back your ideology (no matter how far-fetched, idiotic, or dangerous). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I've noticed the more hardened the Trump supporter the less and less likely they are to interact with people on a day to day basis. Retirees watching FOX nonstop, shut-in NEETs who also form the incel and edgelord communities online, baby boomers who enjoy living in suburban or ex-urban bubble communities. These are the folks who dive in cognitive dissonance and fake news hard. Good article about a fake news writer and the people who read it https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nothing-on-this-page-is-real-how-lies-become-truth-in-online-america/2018/11/17/edd44cc8-e85a-11e8-bbdb-72fdbf9d4fed_story.html I'm generalizing here but it's similar to the kind of delusional beliefs that followers of populist despots and regimes seem to cling to. The US had things like the no-nothing party in the 1800s and various fringe movements that seeped into politics in the 20th century (KKK, john birch society, far left activists) but these never had a vessel in the presidency. Trump's peers rhetoric wise are not in the EU nor even in G8 authoritarian governments in China or Russia: they are in the Philippines, Brazil, Turkey. Places where fragile democracies have popularly elected or enabled authoritarians to take power. It's not even a right-wing exclusive tendency. Maduro loyalists in Venezuela cite the same paranoid charges Trump does against his opposition: it's the crooked media, it's elites, it's a globalist agenda, etc. Fascists and authoritarians thrive by being able to convince loyalists to dismiss or deflect oppression that they enact. They always have a bogeyman to blame. People forget that Nazis were far more anti-communist and anti-globalist in rhetoric before they amped up their anti-semetic measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 this guy is the biggest fucking tyrant baby. https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-official-working-to-protect-2020-election-from-russia-was-warned-not-to-tell-president When former Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen set out to strengthen efforts to protect the 2020 election from Russian interference, Donald Trump’s chief of staff reportedly warned her to keep it a secret from the president through fear it would upset him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I think the irony is that despite many might think Trump sees the Russia thing as some kind of attack on his ego where people think he could not have won on himself, Trump himself might see it as people keeping a good tool from him to win the election. Russia is just his hammer, and it's perfectly 'legal' to use it. Because everybody does. So why can't he? /trump logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 So I just realized that they redraw the district lines in 2020. That is definitely something that Americans should be aware of and pressure our politicians to be fair on. The Republican party survives purely on gerrymandering, after all. Also, even if the presidential election looks dire, we should still try to take the senate. There are 33 seats up, 22 of which are Republican. Even if the 'main event' isn't won, there's a chance we can take control of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Can confirm, boomers and older will BLAST Fox News 12 hours a day. The main difference between the majority of biased left wing news outlets and fox is, there is not a phenomenon of people blasting CNN. Most centrist liberals are not spending their time arguing in forums, or even thinking about the troubles we face. They are very complacent and think, in a technocratic way, that everything is going to work out. Fox watchers on the other hand are always in a state of emergency, Fox News functioning as an ideological drip of fluids keeping them alive, constantly reinforcing their ideology in what they view as an averse climate for conservatism. So, the average center right boomer is all about reactionary fear, and the average center left is, even in the trump era, pretty complacent and vegetative. You are starting to see more reactionary behaviors on the left, but it’s way overblown by the internet. In reality, most if not all the liberals I know are of course concerned about trumpism, but they aren’t in a state of emergency by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 i like when people say that trump tried to shut down the investigation because he was innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Can confirm, boomers and older will BLAST Fox News 12 hours a day. The main difference between the majority of biased left wing news outlets and fox is, there is not a phenomenon of people blasting CNN. Most centrist liberals are not spending their time arguing in forums, or even thinking about the troubles we face. They are very complacent and think, in a technocratic way, that everything is going to work out. Fox watchers on the other hand are always in a state of emergency, Fox News functioning as an ideological drip of fluids keeping them alive, constantly reinforcing their ideology in what they view as an averse climate for conservatism. Truth, holy f, it's like blood for vampires. See also talk radio... and they blast it LOUD too, usually with windows rolled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 flol https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-uk-obama-mi6-phone-tap-spy-larry-johnson-twitter-latest-us-news-a8884056.html The US president promoted the conspiracy theory on Twitter by quoting a right-wing US news organisation's headline, which according to Mr Trump read: "Former CIA analyst Larry Johnson accuses United Kingdom Intelligence of helping Obama Administration Spy on the 2016 Trump Presidential Campaign."Mr Trump added: "WOW! It is now just a question of time before the truth comes out, and when it does, it will be a beauty!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaderpansen Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Fox watchers on the other hand are always in a state of emergency, Fox News functioning as an ideological drip of fluids keeping them alive, constantly reinforcing their ideology in what they view as an averse climate for conservatism. Ties in quite nicely with the neuro-bio studies regarding con amygdalae, doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) The thing is, things ARE dire, but it’s not the news they see on Facebook about the caravan, it’s facebook itself. But the technocrats are a hidden enemy. That’s why google and Facebook coax their algorithms into the political extremes. You get on there and it’s very easy to find an enemy that matches your fears: illegal immigrants, SJWs, or by the same token, trump voters and white nationalists. These enemies are easy to identify and easy to understand. (not saying illegal immigrants are bad, I’m pro amnesty) Not only that, but you have a lot of free thinkers being guilty by association, because it only takes a few clicks to get from Jordan Peterson videos to hateful alt-right neckbeards. The tech elite want to keep people polarized while silencing third parties, and are probably encouraged to do so by covert committees in top levels of government. Reduce everything into reactionary nursery rhymes and maintain a 24hr news cycle, and this is not hard to do, since people want to be in big groups anyway. Edited April 25, 2019 by sheathe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) O, about Facebook, here are some interesting bits. *if* you want to look beyond you tinfoil cap, that is ;) Edited April 25, 2019 by goDel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 One day, people who stand up for tech companies will be viewed in the same light as people who stand up for oil companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Apparently Trump just declared Iran's military a terrorist organization. The nerve of these assholes pushing for another war. Makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 One day, people who stand up for tech companies will be viewed in the same light as people who stand up for oil companies. If you're on the internet, you're guilty of both btw. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Apparently Trump just declared Iran's military a terrorist organization. The nerve of these assholes pushing for another war. Makes me sick. that was like two weeks ago (or 100 news cycles). they're also downgrading trading status of any country that buys oil from iran... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 O, about Facebook, here are some interesting bits. *if* you want to look beyond you tinfoil cap, that is ;) for a deeper dive into the problems w/facebook and manipulation and them not knowing wtf they are doing sometimes and viewing this as an experiment on humans that is happening in realtime here ya go.. 2 parts.. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/facebook-dilemma/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 One day, people who stand up for tech companies will be viewed in the same light as people who stand up for oil companies. If you're on the internet, you're guilty of both btw. ;) I don’t understand. Please explain ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Living in a western society and being on the internet you are dependent on oil. And as such support those companies by simply being part of this society. Similar argument holds for being online and being part of the global online village. Facebook (and google) is like the oil company of the internet. And 'supporting' and 'standing up for' are shades of a similar grey. ;p So yeah, if you're really woke and all that, you might start with returning to a lifestyle from before people discovered oil. Become a farmer and ignore the internet. This is a stupid and tiresome game, innit. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 (edited) congress is having mcgahn, barr, and mueller publicly testify in the next month. Edited April 26, 2019 by very honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Living in a western society and being on the internet you are dependent on oil. And as such support those companies by simply being part of this society. Similar argument holds for being online and being part of the global online village. Facebook (and google) is like the oil company of the internet. And 'supporting' and 'standing up for' are shades of a similar grey. ;p So yeah, if you're really woke and all that, you might start with returning to a lifestyle from before people discovered oil. Become a farmer and ignore the internet. This is a stupid and tiresome game, innit. :) if you stream music you're contributing to tons of pollution (more pollution than any other listening format) https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/04/08/digital-music-pollution/ Streaming Actually Produces More Pollution Than Any Other Music Format, Report Finds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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