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I agree. Stiffen their spines and move forward. That shit bag is only going to be emboldened if they do nothing. They need to get somewhere on the investigations of his organizations. Those other cases with state prosecutors need to go full steam. But it needs to be smart and coordinated.

 

 

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Lol, they don’t want to actually impeach because they want to be turn 90 and still be in the senate. Not going to impeach because all politicians are spineless.

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I think they want to lower Trump’s approval rating a bit more first by having Mueller testify publicly as well as other people. It worked on Nixon, and he was actually really fucking smart.

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I think they want to lower Trump’s approval rating a bit more first by having Mueller testify publicly as well as other people. It worked on Nixon, and he was actually really fucking smart.

 

 

all of this has happened via a process. not skipping any steps. dragging out.. getting all the people to testify and yada yada yada.. so it makes sense that further testimony will happen.. all appropriate steps be taken etc etc before taking any hard action against trump beyond the investigations. 

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I think they want to lower Trump’s approval rating a bit more first by having Mueller testify publicly as well as other people. It worked on Nixon, and he was actually really fucking smart.

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

 

Trump's approval rating has barely wavered for basically his entire presidency. It's going to take a lot fucking more than 'getting attacked by the dems' (how he'll spin it to his supporters) trying to impeach him, or even actually impeaching him.

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getting his taxes and affecting his financial bottom line is the only way to get his attention.  money laundering, fraud etc.. 

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I think they want to lower Trump’s approval rating a bit more first by having Mueller testify publicly as well as other people. It worked on Nixon, and he was actually really fucking smart.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

 

Trump's approval rating has barely wavered for basically his entire presidency. It's going to take a lot fucking more than 'getting attacked by the dems' (how he'll spin it to his supporters) trying to impeach him, or even actually impeaching him.

Or testimony from people who had to defend him publicly. Now they finally have to admit how much they lied for him about really stupid shit or vital national security related shit.

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They would only go for the impeach because it's a big yellow rubber duck that all the disgruntled libs can see and understand...this person is bad...we are not bad....but it's not a meaningful pull factor for voters...dems need to offer something more than moderation platitudes and the fantasy of a return to civility...

 

It's also an uphill battle that has literally been legally deemed mute by a 2 year investigation (yea yea barr 's partiality and muellers space for congress to act etc)

 

How about the best of both worlds a) keep the financial investigations rolling, tax returns, dodgy dealings (but dont make it all about just this) b) invest in a coherent meaningful policy package asap

 

Ou of that dem primary crowd, seriously there are maybe 2 or 3 that have a chance

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Just got to Vegas tonight. Drove past trump tower in the rental car, and really got a feel for how enormously preposterous it is that he is the president of the United States.

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interesting legal analysis of the mueller report. essentially it is argued mueller couldn't come to a "guilty" conclusion, but instead either "not guilty" or "not not guilty" were the only options available.

 

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https://twitter.com/TeamPelosi/status/1109936461753827328

 

this is the kind of stuff that frustrates me. isn't she the speaker of the house? can't she get the report released?

 

btw: /r/The_MuellerMeltdown is the new playground for /r/the_donald

 

well, full report was released some days ago. i waited for everyone to read it so i could see/hear/notice something. anything. and nothing

 

even these 2 pulizer prize winning journalists cannot seem to agree whether this is damning as everyone thought it was going to be. so- that was a waste of time!

 

https://youtu.be/6yLx_wDq1Wo

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They impeached Clinton I believe. Just forget it and focus on winning the election. This will only help rally his base. 

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okay, but if we should be focusing on winning the election- why did we waste all that time investigating him?

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For the news cycle

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Aight so nobody read the report

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ol

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The Great American Villain has once again gotten away with it all. Mueller's investigation failed to stop him. Dems are gonna fumble their way through the impeachment discussion and probably botch the election campaign, leaving lowest common denominator Donnie and his clan of racist barroom drunks to stumble across the 2020 finish line. That orange shit eating grin will be on display across all our screens for many more years to come. 

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Somehow I get the impression people got outlandish expectations of what Mueller could do. The worst part, there's still a lot of work to do and plenty people have become sick of the entire story already. Which is exactly what Trump wants. 

 

There's still some way to go. (as it was never supposed to finish with mueller) The dems in congress are constitutionally required to finish the deal. Regardless of the final outcome (read: reps voting against impeachment). As that's the most likely scenario. If you're really sick of the whole Trump ordeal, just give the dems the space to do "due process". It's really not an option to do nothing with this report. No matter how hard the Trumpists love to make you think so. Congress has to fulfil it's duty. And in the end it's the voter with the final power, as the 2020 elections will be here faster. Trump will stall every- and anything.

 

OK, I'll shut up now. :/

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Posted (edited)

The Great American Villain has once again gotten away with it all. Mueller's investigation failed to stop him.

 

I'm with the common hard leftist critique that the problem was the Dems put way too much faith in the investigation, myself included, and squandered other efforts getting more traction. They should of been harping on the litany of illegal acts and corruption abuses that Trump has committed, hell, even bragged about on record.

 

The optimist in me thinks there's still plenty to indict him on and plenty of ammunition to get the Dems to take the presidency again. They need to stop being defensive. They need to stop having leadership start negotiating from an increasingly right-of-center "starting point." They need to be relentless in their attacks on the GOP coupled with blunt policy plans on healthcare, taxes on the rich, prison and drug reform, military reform, and fighting corruption. There's a large portion of Trump voters who agree with far more Democrat platform policies than GOP ones - and the GOP knows this. That's why they hammer at identity politics so hard and why the Dems should stop trying to retort to that and push actual substantive issues. Ex: Florida, despite disappointing Dems in presidential and gubernatorial elections, literally gave felons the back the right to vote in November.

 

I'm going to have to ignore most news coverage of 2020, not because of the vileness of Trump, but because the media and Dems play into it so fucking much while shooting themselves in the foot.

Edited by joshuatx

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I agree in the sense that the attention is too much focussed on "winning over Trump". As at this point, it's less about Trump and more about the democracy itself. The institution. So besides having a good story going into 2020, it's about keeping the democratic institution running. They have a job to do besides thinking about 2020. Putting all the eggs in the 2020 basket is lose-lose, I'd think.

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Aight so nobody read the report

 

i didn't. too much was redacted- and what wasn't has people divided (which they already were) so basically i see it as a waste of time and resources. i saw muller said he saw "a lot of disturbing things" but didn't specify what. was it that trump campaign was more than happy to get help from russia? was it that he ordered a bunch of people to lie for him? 

 

then today i saw someone that worked for the trump campaign said he also saw a lot of things that have made him conclude we should push for impeachment. as always, he didn't saw what.

 

imo- for the right, this just looks like desperate measures from the left that couldn't find anything to charge trump with.

 

oh- and btw: nobody wants to see mike pence's tax returns? i agree with what zero said. at this point, if they can't even agree on what they found in the muller report or whether to move on with impeachment (or not) they might actually have done more harm than good for the conservatives. 

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Apart from the legalese, the report is good reading, imo. It's a great summary of a lot of stuff that's familiar, but has turned into some giant plate of spaghetti if you'd follow the media. Mueller creates order by presenting the facts. I'd argue it's mandatory to read the report if you're going to make an informed decision about 2020.

 

But again, I'll shut up again. It's none of my business and all that...

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I agree in the sense that the attention is too much focussed on "winning over Trump". As at this point, it's less about Trump and more about the democracy itself. The institution. So besides having a good story going into 2020, it's about keeping the democratic institution running. They have a job to do besides thinking about 2020. Putting all the eggs in the 2020 basket is lose-lose, I'd think.

 

Yeah this is something a lot of the older establishment conservatives have said. I have no idea how much sway they have, and I don't think it's much. but it's interesting anyway. George Will literally told people to vote straight ticket Democrat in 2018. I've been listening to Chapo Trap House a lot lately and the one thing I'm not totally sold on is this notion that things are so fucked the idea of saving the Republic is some sort of joke. Yes the institutions and establishment hegemony were already quite bad but the idea of the GOP and Trump dissolving more of it permanently is frightening. Same with the idea of blue states and municipalities becoming increasingly marginalized and disenfranchised into these smaller and smaller "islands."

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even the IRS couldn't get trump's taxes over to congressional tax committee over in time. 

 

this is great. i guess if they ever do come out, they'll also have a lot of redactions and at that point, nobody will care that much because they'll end up revealing nothing we don't already know

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tax-deadline/irs-fails-to-meet-congressional-deadline-for-trump-tax-returns-idUSKCN1RZ2E9

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