Jump to content
IGNORED

Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)


Nebraska

Recommended Posts

I reiterate:  a u t i s m.

we've been over all this shit before but there is a reason this trolly little word has caught on on the internet in a viral sense that doesn't strictly relate to the medical definition of the term. it simply and instinctively outlines a character profile of certain men (prob some women too, but they act out less) on the internet which starts with things like social disconnection, life inexperience, unwillingness or fear of mingling freely, a general lack of common sense and groundedness, poor emotional resilience - all of which can be undeserved and caused by disadvantages like a bad upbringing or low socioeconomic class or mental health predispositions, but which if ignored and left untreated can lead you further down the rabbithole of more autistic thinking, for which you are ultimately culpable.

so then over time and with no one in your life to check you, and possibly other strangers on the internet to help you further mentally stifle yourself, you get: a false sense of entitlement or superiority borne from mistreatment at the hands of others (either real or imagined), virulently negative and self-reinforcing sentiments towards the people you have been unable to connect with/listen to, especially women and minorities, plus crazy views about what you would like the ideal society to look like, which can range from puerile and naive scientistic techno-utopian nonsense that is somehow disconnected from the chaotic realities of human nature and the world*, or fully insane shit like the state-sanctioned rape thing that some incels go on about.

I want to add that in spite of all the relentless pisstaking, and in spite of how condescending this might sound, I actually give Zeff some credit for not falling into some of these traps e.g. regressive conservatism. I think you've come some way from this thread (you know what you originally said here, we've been over this before and a mod confirmed it so let's not rehash that shit). you just gotta get more real, my guy.

*this is why using IQ as a single definitive measure of "intelligence" is bollocks, it doesn't capture emotional/behavioural traits or situational context at all. an average person able to make sound decisions in a difficult situation, because maybe they've put in the time and effort to actually get used to that situation and comprehend it properly, is well capable of behaving more "intelligently" than someone who can score high on an IQ test, because they're innately good at solving the abstract problems an IQ test presents, but who will shit the bed when put in the same difficult situation out of inexperience or lack of resilience. "intelligence" isn't shit without effort. also, it's a slippery slope from IQ discussions to eugenics and shitty race science.

Edited by usagi
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i'd still take autists like zef for serious world managerial positions over some street/world smart affable and empathetic seth rogen like dudes. some systems require professionalism, very strict adherence to rationality and logic and thus a good deal of the `tism. i'd even say that ethics is one of those fields, it is basically a set of strict laws that one must learn to navigate to maximize overall statistical goodness for a huge number of people.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, eugene said:

i'd still take autists like zef for serious world managerial positions over some street/world smart affable and empathetic seth rogen like dudes. some systems require professionalism, very strict adherence to rationality and logic and thus a good deal of the `tism. i'd even say that ethics is one of those fields, it is basically a set of strict laws that one must learn to navigate to maximize overall statistical goodness for a huge number of people.

I wouldn't trust Seth Rogen for shit, have you seen a single thing he's done?

I can see some sense in that, some professions do require very stringent thinking, but consider the idea that that stringent thinking is based on and being applied to a model which is only accurate insofar as we can currently envision, and that the more 'tistic your thinking is in that role, the less likely you may be able to see beyond current limits to actually progress forward. using your ethics example and extending it to the law, take judges who are required to lay down the law "to maximimise overall statistical goodness for a huge number of people". in principle, yes, they need a highly 'tistic level of attention to detail and the rigid adherence to/application of a carefully thought-through code to ensure that the law is laid down fairly and universally. but:

a) that code is partly (apart from moral first principles like "do not kill" etc.) based on a model of the world as we see it currently, and that model is necessarily subject to societal changes or we'd still be in the Dark Ages. how is a judge to adapt to those changes instead of pointlessly resisting them, while at the same time ensuring the ethical/moral integrity of the law as applied in the courts isn't compromised?

b) we all know in practice the law is messy and there's a huge amount of negotiating and grey area-navigating involved. I don't think it couldn't be any other way, because the chaos of reality can't be shut out no matter how airtight you try to make your game-ified rules for life, whether it's your personal code of values or the courts themselves. how is a judge meant to deal with that messiness while again ensuring ethics/morals aren't compromised?

I think the answer to both of those problems involves knowing how to balance things in a way that is very difficult to formulate on paper, and the only chance anyone would have at succeeding in that capacity is dependent on them being well-rounded as a person, i.e. balancing the 'tism with broad real life experience and deep, instinctive understanding that can't be taught but must be learned individually.

also, autists are real cunts to work for, you'd never want to be under one.

Edited by usagi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For someone who seemingly obsessively stalks the posting history of others, you sure seem to love throwing around the word autistic.  As for claims that my threads are techno utopian nonsense, they are not even utopian let alone nonsense

Edited by Zeffolia
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

no stalking required my guy, it simply sticks out in my memory like a stench when someone uses a foul racial slur (I think you managed to work IQ in there too, or at least an "intelligence" reference) and I also have p decent googling skills. are you denying it?

as for the "bitcoin/neuralink are an evolutionary step forward" stuff... it's not like I don't admire the enthusiasm for technology, but I remind you people were similarly naive about social media's potential to change human interaction through interconnectivity prior to 2016. there is always a flipside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fail to see how mere IQ (or lack thereof) alone would be a factor in the odds of someone going postal in populated public areas. It's not as simple as that, or even relevant.

I'm no psychologist, but I reckon it has more to do with a proclivity towards severe detachment/withdrawal from society, caused by possible childhood trauma and/or having been bullied in school. Which might lead to a potential perp to become attracted to more radicalized fringe communities on the internet where they might feel acceptance.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there’s a lack of compassion for socially maladjusted people. They’ll be pointed to and laughed at so others can be all proud of themselves for not being maladjusted. Several different people who walk by eachother everyday can be in completely different worlds just due to life circumstances beyond their control.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Candiru said:

I think there’s a lack of compassion for socially maladjusted people. They’ll be pointed to and laughed at so others can be all proud of themselves for not being maladjusted. Several different people who walk by eachother everyday can be in completely different worlds just due to life circumstances beyond their control.

this is true and people should help each other with this problem but there is a point at which personal responsibility and culpability creeps in. namely when you know you have problems and refuse to look them in the eye and rather continue indulging in your fantasies and escapes. this sympathy has always been applied unevenly anyway, there wasn't a big dialogue about mental health concerns for shooters/mass murderers  until more young white men started doing it.

Edited by usagi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, usagi said:

this is true and people should help each other with this problem but there is a point at which personal responsibility and culpability creeps in. namely when you know you have problems and refuse to look them in the eye and rather continue indulging in your fantasies and escapes. this sympathy has always been applied unevenly anyway, there wasn't a big dialogue about mental health concerns for shooters/mass murderers  until more young white men started doing it.

you don't have to mix together multiple topics.  you can be sympathetic to mentally ill white people while also being aware that racism results in non-white people not being afforded the same benefit of the doubt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, usagi said:

no stalking required my guy, it simply sticks out in my memory like a stench when someone uses a foul racial slur (I think you managed to work IQ in there too, or at least an "intelligence" reference) and I also have p decent googling skills. are you denying it?

people should be allowed to perform self improvement, I am disgusted by that post and at the time was irresponsible with that word on occasion, this didn't indicate any genuine racist feelings in my brain at the time I used it and it definitely does not now

10 hours ago, usagi said:

as for the "bitcoin/neuralink are an evolutionary step forward" stuff... it's not like I don't admire the enthusiasm for technology, but I remind you people were similarly naive about social media's potential to change human interaction through interconnectivity prior to 2016. there is always a flipside.

pretty sure social media transformed every aspect of most first world countries to the point where it's being used to interfere in elections worldwide

maybe I didn't talk about the negative aspects of these technologies enough in my threads, but they are obvious and they exist, but they don't take away from the positive aspects or their extreme magnitude.  Bitcoin in particular is orders of magnitude above anything else right now due to its mathematical purity.  it's completely free of ideology or human baggage

7 hours ago, Candiru said:

I think there’s a lack of compassion for socially maladjusted people. They’ll be pointed to and laughed at so others can be all proud of themselves for not being maladjusted. Several different people who walk by eachother everyday can be in completely different worlds just due to life circumstances beyond their control.

there's also a lack of discussion about socially acceptable neurotic behavior.  it's in the majority, so you aren't allowed to point it out because everyone can collectively deny that it's neurotic.  this involves everything from typical human mating behavior strategies to social pyramid climbing.  many "socially maladjusted" people are immune to some common psychological bugs (and have other ones instead) but aren't given credit for that because few people want to speak positively about minority groups.  

discrimination against otherwise harmless non-neurotypical tendencies is equivalent to racism/sexism/ableism/speciesism etc. but it will take longer for that to be acknowledged.

Edited by Zeffolia
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

also @usagi for someone so rightfully annoyed at slurs you sure are okay throwing around the word autism as an insult or impliedly negatively connoted word, maybe reflect on that

Edited by Zeffolia
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

you don't have to mix together multiple topics.  you can be sympathetic to mentally ill white people while also being aware that racism results in non-white people not being afforded the same benefit of the doubt

I don't have to mix them together? they are mixed together, my guy. everything is mixed together irl, it's only in artificial spaces like the internet where people try to divorce the messy complexities of the real world from each other so they can focus singlemindedly on their problems of choice to the exclusion of everything else.

I do agree with you on this, you shouldn't be unsympathetic to a mentally ill person simply because they're white. just don't ignore the bigger picture, is what I'm saying. there is a point of culpability for lack of personal initiative, and if that is deemed to enter the picture at a certain point for some people - e.g. black teenagers wilin' out because they don't have fathers in their lives, who are then tried as adults for their crimes - then it should either be applied universally, or at the very least the prejudice should be addressed.

39 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

people should be allowed to perform self improvement, I am disgusted by that post and at the time was irresponsible with that word on occasion, this didn't indicate any genuine racist feelings in my brain at the time I used it and it definitely does not now

that is fair, that is fair. I did not bring it up to sling it in your face to win an argument, I was giving you some credit like I said. there is no self-improvement without constantly bearing your past lessons in mind.

side note about Bitcoin: it is only ideology free in its current form, because it's still a sandbox experiment and not taken seriously by the world's major political/economic institutions. the moment it is, it will become subject to the same political/ideological forces as any other human process, because that's just how we do. consider social media again: it was supposed to be an impartial, purely tech-driven tool for empowering and democratising speech, and in principle it was, but you saw what happened once it got big enough. the flippant attitude tech-heads have towards real world downsides to their high-minded ventures is perfectly captured in Zuckerberg's "move fast and break things" philosophy for FB, which in retrospect sounds terrible, cos look what broke: the most powerful office in the world.

13 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

also @usagi for someone so rightfully annoyed at slurs you sure are okay throwing around the word autism as an insult or impliedly negatively connoted word, maybe reflect on that

like I said, the trolly take on the word has taken a life of its own on the internet and no longer refers strictly to the medical condition (even using the term "autist" as opposed to "autistic" subtly implies the difference). I interpret it as poking fun at people who have agency and are culpable for their choices, not severely handicapped people who are struggling through no fault of their own. are you suggesting there's anywhere near the same level of historical baggage associated with calling someone autistic, a term that has only been used colloquially in maybe the last decade or so, compared to using a racial slur?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No I'm not suggesting it has historical baggage but it's in the same category so you can't make up excuses, and the same analogy about the N word would be made by poltards who often call white people the N word so that's not very valid to say that unless a word is used in its original literal way it can't be just as bad

And you're missing the point about Bitcoin, it's inherently non-ideological because it's fundamentally not software or technology, it's an algorithm that was discovered, specifically the first solution to the byzantine generals problem for decentralized write-only ledger creation, it's a very deceiving technology and it only masquerades as being anything similar to any other software that exists right now, it's on another level entirely

Edited by Zeffolia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

if it doesn't have the same baggage how is it in the same category or even comparable? simply on account of being a kind of insult? well shit, I guess we shouldn't cuss or lol at people's wilful stupidity at all then, that'll be fun. WATMM 3.0.

re Bitcoin, I mean, that's not what I was on about... but ok, cool solution to an abstract problem. it will still cease to be non-ideological as soon as it connects in any meaningful capacity with the real world. you can't divorce politics from money, nor should you pretend that you can because the political process - dialogue, negotiation, compromise between conflicting ideas - is essential for any endeavour.

Edited by usagi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

Bitcoin in particular is orders of magnitude above anything else right now due to its mathematical purity.  it's completely free of ideology or human baggage

I’m sorry, but this is unmitigated horseshit. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, usagi said:

if it doesn't have the same baggage how is it in the same category or even comparable? simply on account of being a kind of insult? well shit, I guess we shouldn't cuss or lol at people's wilful stupidity at all then, that'll be fun. WATMM 3.0.

I think you are being "willfully stupid" here with your insistentence on this. Your autistic vs. autist excuse is a lot like the gay-ghey thing that never caught on. Now that the gay community has a strong voice we're going to switch insults over to a group that's inherently somewhat voiceless (i.e., defined by social difficulties among other things)? Weak, and disingenuous.

I'm sorry you can't see this with your supreme non-autist Tru Human™ gut feeling, but maybe try applying reason for once.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geez, he voiced his opinion. Just let it rest already. No need to go into the group identity politics nonsense. We're a bunch of bickering assholes. Don't even think the "politically correct" win means anything. It just sidesteps the fact we're a bunch of assholes. A politically correct asshole, is still an asshole. I'd argue worse even. Because there's an inherent justification to act like an asshole.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, goDel said:

Geez, he voiced his opinion. Just let it rest already. No need to go into the group identity politics nonsense. We're a bunch of bickering assholes. Don't even think the "politically correct" win means anything. It just sidesteps the fact we're a bunch of assholes. A politically correct asshole, is still an asshole. I'd argue worse even. Because there's an inherent justification to act like an asshole.

It's not identity politics or political correctness, you can't in one moment say that slurs against certain races are bad, but that slurs against groups of people who are not neurotypical are okay because they don't have historical baggage, because if you perpetuate that idea forward long enough guess what, the new slurs will develop historical baggage.  You have to be smarter than that

Furthermore even though the word autist doesn't have historical baggage and in fact it's a relatively new word, discrimination against mental illnesses and atypical mental modes of existence is not only a deeply historical trend across all human societies, but still apparently still so pervasive that woke anti-racist people are unaware of how it's a bad thing to use slurs against it.  This isn't super SJW identity politics it's first paragraph wikipedia level stuff so let's not propagate BS and pretend like it's obscure and not important, and also don't make it personal when it's not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism_(discrimination)

Quote

Mentalism or sanism describes discrimination and oppression against a mental trait or condition a person has, or is judged to have. This discrimination may or may not be characterized in terms of mental disorder or cognitive impairment. The discrimination is based on numerous factors such as stereotypes about neurodivergence, for example autism spectrum, learning disorders, ADHD, bipolar, schizophrenia, and personality disorders, specific behavioral phenomena such as stuttering and tics, or intellectual disability.

Edited by Zeffolia
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, manmower said:

I think you are being "willfully stupid" here with your insistentence on this. Your autistic vs. autist excuse is a lot like the gay-ghey thing that never caught on. Now that the gay community has a strong voice we're going to switch insults over to a group that's inherently somewhat voiceless (i.e., defined by social difficulties among other things)? Weak, and disingenuous.

I'm sorry you can't see this with your supreme non-autist Tru Human™ gut feeling, but maybe try applying reason for once.

hey, I didn't say anything superior about myself anywhere, I am describing a problem with neurotic young men as I see it and as I have also dealt with previously. I'm not far out on the spectrum, but I'm not referring to those cases with this usage of the a-word either.

I don't get your comparison, being gay is not a mental problem you need to address before it eats you up, whereas you do become responsible for continuing to indulge in your "neurotic" (how about that instead) behaviour at some point when you are being called out for it and just double down on it further. not sure exactly what the gay/ghey thing is you're referring to but ok, maybe autist vs autistic is a bit weaselly.

it surprises me how upset you guys are about this word. on WATMM. yes it's a troll term and you wouldn't really use it in grownup conversation irl, but it's being used to describe a broader social phenomenon and to poke fun at people who are ultimately responsible for their choices, not the undeserved far out on the spectrum who are just trying to function. if you feel that this usage of the word stigmatises people in the latter camp, I apologise. but I do not apologise for people in the former camp, who really need to get their shit together unless we're fine with more these shootings.

I'd be glad to take suggestions on a fairer term that describes the same problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.