azatoth Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, ambergonk said: The GOP are basically the al-Qaeda of Christianity at this point I think you mean y'all-Qaeda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Brisbot said: You know I've always found it odd that conservatives like a president who they would HATE to be around if they actually knew someone like him. No one likes a narcissistic sociopath, but for some reason people think they make great authoritarian leaders. I recently asked a conservative buddy of mine why he voted for him and he flat out said "No one voted for Trump for his moral character, they voted for him because he said he would drain the swamp." and I just replied "He is the exact type of person who owns the swamp. Why would you expect this guy with horrible morals to be telling you the truth when he says he wants to get rid of the corruption? Why would you expect this super rich guy with zero moral character to give a crap about some random workers from a random state?" Then he just changed the topic instead of answering then I just dropped the political talk. "Drain the swamp" seems to be code for "I hate Washington". And I'm guessing that for the people who hate Washington politics, Trumps warfare on its political norms can be a good thing. Regardless of what the constitution says. Or whether it increases the corruption even. In order to support a position where Trump sitting in the White House is not a problem, you have to think the alternative is an even bigger problem. That alternative is often referred to as the "status quo". Or the "establishment". And the 2020 campaigns will largely be based on this notion of having a fight against some status quo, or establishment. On both sides of the political spectrum, btw. It's not just Trump. The irony is staggering. As Trump in the White House confirms peoples ideas on politics. It corrupts Washington and in doing so justifies peoples anger. It's a feedback loop which looks difficult to break. ( a leftist anti-establishment candidate would lead to similar results, btw) This is basically what populism is about. Interestingly, it redefines the political spectrum where the extremes on the left and right are closer to each other than to their usual moderate "allies". And the moderates on the left and right are similarly closer to each other as well. Left/right seems to be replaced with populism/anti-populism. Although I'm sure the populists wouldn't consider themselves populists. Somehow they seem to tell themselves a story that their anti-establishment position is different to populism. I mean, I don't see many people identifying themselves as populists. Seems to me a strange phenomenon where real anger and fake politics feed of each other. As far as I'm concerned this anger is a vital part of this positive feedback loop. And following the media, the anger only seems to grow. You can guess where the politics is going. Or rather, the fake politics. Edited October 8, 2019 by goDel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, goDel said: In order to support a position where Trump sitting in the White House is not a problem, you have to think the alternative is an even bigger problem. That alternative is often referred to as the "status quo". Or the "establishment". And the 2020 campaigns will largely be based on this notion of having a fight against some status quo, or establishment. On both sides of the political spectrum, btw. It's not just Trump. This is basically what populism is about. Interestingly, it redefines the political spectrum where the extremes on the left and right are closer to each other than to their usual moderate "allies". And the moderates on the left and right are similarly closer to each other as well. Left/right seems to be replaced with populism/anti-populism. Although I'm sure the populists wouldn't consider themselves populists. Somehow they seem to tell themselves a story that their anti-establishment position is different to populism. I mean, I don't see many people identifying themselves as populists. Seems to me a strange phenomenon where real anger and fake politics feed of each other. As far as I'm concerned this anger is a vital part of this positive feedback loop. And following the media, the anger only seems to grow. You can guess where the politics is going. Or rather, the fake politics. Well I'm essentially a populist (lol). I'm a Bernie Bro. Though it seems the idea of what populism even is, is muddled. I think the govt. should work for the people and for the most part enact policies that are popular among the people and NOT specific minorities of people, whether they are rich or they're a bunch of racist ideologues. Which is my idea of what populism is. It seems to me politicians by and large work for the people who donate the most to them, and it's currently set up to where the politicians can get huge bribes in the form of speeches, and campaign donations (among 1000 other ways to hand money under the table). Not so much from the nameless masses with their separate donations. So you end up with a bunch of politicians like Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Beta O' Rourke who stand for nothing, and spout a bunch of nonsense platitudes in the place of actual policy because they know they don't really represent the people voting for them, so they have to fill that void somehow. This is what I think of as "The Establishment", which is an over-simplification of things. It all has naturally fallen into place because of money in politics. IF your politicians only partly represent people then you're going to get angry masses who see thru the BS from a mile away. Honestly things would improve so much more if politicians couldn't get massive donations from a handful of people. Dunno how you'd plug all the holes, but you can at least plug a few and make politics policy focused again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 8 hours ago, azatoth said: I think you mean y'all-Qaeda That would have been the Bundy Ranch militia circa 2014. But close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 we all knew this was coming...donnie's trying to weasel his way out of his Syria gaffe by downplaying the whole thing: Quote Mr. Trump insisted in new tweets on Tuesday that, "in no way have we Abandoned the Kurds," while also lauding "very good" relations with "big trading partner" Turkey. nothing to see here folks, the deals with Turkey will be rolling in any minute...and America is the bestest country in the whole world!!!! MAGA hats for all!!! OK on to the next scandal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, ignatius said: not to mention all the gay bashing, taking money from old people, dogma against any kind of cultural 'progress'. for a long long time he's spewing the hate. he doesn't deserve your pity. if he's stuck in a loop of horse shit it's his own fault. maybe on his deathbed he'll realize but i doubt it.. i'm sure he thins he's doing the lords work and he's somehow relevant and important and deserves the position he has. his son is also a shit stain. he's following in his dad's footsteps. i like how you got me pondering trump's conscience on his deathbed. i picture him relating some cheap revelations to ivanka or whoever but his mind being way too far gone to reach anything like clarity or peace. it's an interesting question, though. trump's conscience ties in with a new element of the phase we are in that has observers "lending their eyes a terrible aspect." maddow touched on it last night a few minutes into a remarkable A-block, talking about how trump is a cornered animal. full show audio here's palmer: Quote Much we have learned this week has given many cause to celebrate. I wish I could join in the festivities, I really do, but I am filled with grave foreboding. It is true that a criminal referral has been filed against Donald Trump by a CIA lawyer, additional whistleblowers have come forward, Trump’s popularity is beginning to unravel with Republicans and rank and file supporters alike, and the impeachment inquiry is proceeding apace. But these pressures are being applied to man with a limitless capacity for evil, no conscience and a nearly unlimited supply of power with which to damage the world and everyone in it. maddow illustrates an interesting weapon being deployed in the information warfare arena - how they are zapping terms like "fake news" and "corruption" as though with radar jammers... and it works. msnbc posted that part of the A-block video: Edited October 8, 2019 by very honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Brisbot said: Well I'm essentially a populist (lol). I'm a Bernie Bro. Though it seems the idea of what populism even is, is muddled. I think the govt. should work for the people and for the most part enact policies that are popular among the people and NOT specific minorities of people, whether they are rich or they're a bunch of racist ideologues. Which is my idea of what populism is. Good points. The thing which seems to be muddled, to me at least, is the distinction between anti-establishment and anti-government. When things move to anti-government, it becomes even harder for the (any) government to do what it is supposed to do. I think for a lot of people anti-establishment and anti-government are more or less interchangeable. Which seems liek the ideal feeding ground for populism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke viia Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I have a feeling that this Syria/Turkey blunder was Trump's attempt at redirecting/regaining control of the news narrative. He's certainly crazy enough to risk lives just to get away from continued scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, luke viia said: I have a feeling that this Syria/Turkey blunder was Trump's attempt at redirecting/regaining control of the news narrative. He's certainly crazy enough to risk lives just to get away from continued scrutiny. I don't think so, this was all kicked off by Turkey announcing they were planning on moving on Syria a few days before Trump made his announcement. He's tried to do this before, both in Syria and similarly in Afghanistan. I'm sure he's happy to have the distraction, but he hasn't orchestrated it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 45 minutes ago, caze said: I don't think so, this was all kicked off by Turkey announcing they were planning on moving on Syria a few days before Trump made his announcement. He's tried to do this before, both in Syria and similarly in Afghanistan. I'm sure he's happy to have the distraction, but he hasn't orchestrated it. i'm still waiting for the news to get ahold of the russia treaty thing.. Open Skies treaty. https://www.businessinsider.com/us-pulling-out-open-skies-treaty-report-2019-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke viia Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, caze said: I don't think so, this was all kicked off by Turkey announcing they were planning on moving on Syria a few days before Trump made his announcement. He's tried to do this before, both in Syria and similarly in Afghanistan. I'm sure he's happy to have the distraction, but he hasn't orchestrated it. thanks -- that's fair. i hadn't heard much about how this latest fiasco started, will have to read up a bit tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 Quote WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House said on Tuesday it would refuse to cooperate with a “baseless, unconstitutional” congressional impeachment inquiry, setting Republican President Donald Trump on a collision course with the Democratic-led U.S. House of Representatives. In a letter to House Democratic leaders, White House lawyer Pat Cipollone cited in part the decision by lawmakers to proceed without a full vote of the House of Representatives. “You have designed and implemented your inquiry in a manner that violates fundamental fairness and constitutionally mandated due process,” he said, adding House Democrats had left Trump “no choice.” “In order to fulfill his duties to the American people, the Constitution, the Executive Branch and all future occupants of the Office of the Presidency, President Trump and his administration cannot participate in your partisan and unconstitutional inquiry under these circumstances,” he said. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower/white-house-says-it-will-refuse-to-cooperate-with-impeachment-inquiry-idUSKBN1WN0CV i like where this is headed. guess it will be another week before we hear from pelosi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, goDel said: Good points. The thing which seems to be muddled, to me at least, is the distinction between anti-establishment and anti-government. When things move to anti-government, it becomes even harder for the (any) government to do what it is supposed to do. I think for a lot of people anti-establishment and anti-government are more or less interchangeable. Which seems liek the ideal feeding ground for populism. I suppose this shows how this term can apply to entirely different political ideologies and probably isn't a helpful categorization when looking at someone's politics. On one level it simply refers to what's popular among the people--what the people want. And on another it can refer to the really one dimensional idea of "The people" vs "The elites". Instead of being based on some kind of causal logic, it's based on the vague notion that you're getting hoodwinked by rich people smoking cigars in some board room somewhere. However I think it's more that the priorities of centrist democrats like Hillary are skewed away from what people want because of monetary incentive. Case in point, the democratic party used to be for Medicare for All, championed by Hillary in the 90s, and then slowly over time she magically "changes her mind" along with all of the other interchangeable centrist dems. This is what proves to me centrists dems don't really stand for anything. If they owned up to it I'd at least respect them more for it. Edited October 9, 2019 by Brisbot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Interesting read on our Intelligence community's attitude and behavior during this bullshit Presidency: https://www.yahoo.com/news/nations-intelligence-officers-are-resigned-to-serving-a-president-who-doesnt-trust-them-090030238.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Rubin Farr said: Interesting read on our Intelligence community's attitude and behavior during this bullshit Presidency: https://www.yahoo.com/news/nations-intelligence-officers-are-resigned-to-serving-a-president-who-doesnt-trust-them-090030238.html morale super low i guess. nothing like feeling unvalued and getting thrown under the bus everyday to make you want to come to work every day. also, shit stain weasel stooge owes more than 10 cities money for security at his rallies... owes DC $9 million. President Donald Trump took to Twitter Tuesday to accuse the mayor of Minneapolis of trying to “stifle free speech” over the city’s $530,000 bill for security at a Trump campaign rally planned for later this week. https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/president-trump-wont-pay-for-minneapolis-rally-still-owes-dc-9million/65-012b6e66-8942-44fb-b4a1-6229b69afe18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 He's like a dog dragging its ass on a carpet everywhere he goes. He just leaves one long skid mark trail. (I rarely have anything new to report in this thread, but still) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 If youve got some time to spare, this is an interesting interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Quote Two business associates of President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani have been charged with a scheme to route foreign money into U.S. elections, according to a newly unsealed indictment. The two men, who helped Giuliani investigate former vice president Joe Biden, were arrested Wednesday night in Virginia, according to a person familiar with the charges. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman have been under investigation by the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan and are expected to appear in federal court in Virginia later Thursday. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/465181-read-indictment-of-giuliani-contacts-who-aided-in-ukraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Here's a silly idea: Giuliani is still working with SDNY as some sort of undercover agent Let this possibility sink in for a moment ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 ^ if so, then that's one hell of an act he's putting on right now...he's easily the most bat-shit insane member of donnie's entourage. in fact, just for sheer entertainment purposes, it would be hilarious to watch a debate between "crazy uncle Rudy" and "creepy uncle Joe" on one of those talking heads shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) leading observers are saying rudy giuliani has rabies Edited October 11, 2019 by very honest 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 stable geniuses: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Damn, Giulani really channeling his inner Uncle Fester there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Giuliani any time he goes on tv: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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