End Times ?

[goDel]

 

Capitalism does not depend on infinite growth. Imagine a completely sustainable society and ask whether or not capitalism is still possible within such society.

 

 

nope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-P5JX_DIQQ

[usagi]

Good solid argument. Trump would be proud of you troon

Troonp

[Candiru]

If nukes start flying, do mdma and thrash wildly on a geetar for maximum effect. 

[Ivy Zemura yvI oo ii oo]

Humans will not be wiped out biologically, what I'm more scared of us our culture and intellectual foundations being wiped out

 

One generation not being sufficiently educated and it's all gone.  Nobody will know how to teach everyone else, there will just be a bunch of old dusty textbooks on boring stuff left in the cupboards that nobody knows how to read, so nobody reads them

 

One generation and "we" are done for, to be replaced by a mentally inferior bunch.  Not to say that we are amazing and superior, but that it's very easy to raise an inferior generation if strict values are not kept in place and education is not put first, and it's not being put first

 

FUck conservatives

[goDel]

Sometimes you need to take a step back to be able to move forwards again. One lost generation is not the end of progression.

 

And I believe you're confusing evangelicals and conservatives.

[Ivy Zemura yvI oo ii oo]

no, plenty of regressive anti intellectual conservatives are not evangelicals.

[hello spiral]

 

 

The giant, dressed as a girl, has been here all day

 

 

A+

[cwmbrancity]

the human race always been good @ projecting end times scenarios because of the innate savagery of power & through the collective traumas that got us to the position we're in today

 

from Revelations, to disease, to near constant wars, to genocide, to famine, to greed, to inequality, to mass extinctions, industrial pollution & more recently the plastic age's levels of escalating pollution, climate change....the species doesnt have the capacity to transcend its viral programming even when best solution responses are repeatedly presented, Control wont allow it

 

if we ever get out of the solar system we'd fuck up any place arrived at, assuming that by the time we got to another star the colonists werent completely inbred & insane

[Candiru]

no, plenty of regressive anti intellectual conservatives are not evangelicals.

 

A lot of people who call themselves conservatives say they value things that literally any candidate you vote for will get you, except for Trump. And guess who they voted for? They're stuck believing in a political party that doesn't even exist. Sure, some republican candidate out there might not want to fuck the country over for their own personal gain, but it's obviously not worth the risk. 

[caze]

 

Capitalism does not depend on infinite growth. Imagine a completely sustainable society and ask whether or not capitalism is still possible within such society. 

 

nope

 

 

Sustainability and growth are not mutually exclusive. Capitalism does require growth (especially with the current monetary system), but that's not a big deal, growth doesn't have to mean rapidly accelerating resource usage. Technological change always has, and in all likelihood will continue to, create incredible new efficiencies, open up new avenues for better resources to be consumed, and close off old inefficient resources that are no longer necessary. We already see that with fossil fuels, from a technological standpoint they are no longer necessary, it's just some practical and political factors slowing down their inevitable obsolescence. Ultimately everything is bound by the second law of thermodynamics, but long before we reach the limits of resource utilisation on Earth we'll have opened up the 'closed system' to the rest of the solar system (we're already well on the way to that, asteroid mining is already technically feasible, and it won't be long before it's economically feasible), and once we've done that we're good for many millennia to come.

[sweepstakes]

Sustainability and growth are not mutually exclusive. Capitalism does require growth (especially with the current monetary system), but that's not a big deal, growth doesn't have to mean rapidly accelerating resource usage. Technological change always has, and in all likelihood will continue to, create incredible new efficiencies, open up new avenues for better resources to be consumed, and close off old inefficient resources that are no longer necessary. We already see that with fossil fuels, from a technological standpoint they are no longer necessary, it's just some practical and political factors slowing down their inevitable obsolescence.

Yeah, well said. My own jaded view of it is based on the existing crony implementations. But I suppose it doesn't have to be that way.

 

I do hope technology (or regulation) wins against the entrenched big polluters and destroyers before we permanently fuck our water and food supply. The coral, for example, is not doing so well lately, and that doesn't bode well for greater marine biodiversity.

[BobDobalina]

Ultimately everything is bound by the second law of thermodynamics

 

True

 

but long before we reach the limits of resource utilisation on Earth we'll have opened up the 'closed system' to the rest of the solar system (we're already well on the way to that, asteroid mining is already technically feasible, and it won't be long before it's economically feasible), and once we've done that we're good for many millennia to come.

 

This ain't happening, it's a Tower of Babel. Our closed system isn't just resources and energy, you have to fully account for the abstract layers of civilization and the infosphere (politics, factionalism, self-interest, misinformation, disinformation, FUD...) and IMO our primitive brains do not (and will not) have the capacity to overcome the entropy in these areas.  Shit, the leader of what is arguably the most technically advanced nation is an oozing orange shitbag of entropy, spewn from a broken social/political/economic system that requires 'successful' actors - be they politicians, pundits or toothpaste salesmen - to continue sow entropy amongst the masses.

[Kavinsky]

and its still the best time to live on earth then ever before

[caze]

This ain't happening, it's a Tower of Babel. Our closed system isn't just resources and energy, you have to fully account for the abstract layers of civilization and the infosphere (politics, factionalism, self-interest, misinformation, disinformation, FUD...) and IMO our primitive brains do not (and will not) have the capacity to overcome the entropy in these areas.  Shit, the leader of what is arguably the most technically advanced nation is an oozing orange shitbag of entropy, spewn from a broken social/political/economic system that requires 'successful' actors - be they politicians, pundits or toothpaste salesmen - to continue sow entropy amongst the masses.

 

a private company is already launching things into space cheaper and more efficiently than any government has managed to do before them, not sure why you think political concerns will get in the way. eventually it's going to start getting very expensive to mine stuff on earth (and very quickly too if we go down a predominantly renewables + batteries route, environmental regs will have an impact as well), asteroid mining will become cheap in comparison. the chaos of the infosphere is what drives technological advancements, it's not a hinderance.

[BobDobalina]

not sure why you think political concerns will get in the way.

 

Thanks in part to the chaos of the infosphere we still have nuclear weapons pointed at each other and have managed to put grossly incompetent and/or unethical persons in positions of power (where they can greatly influence the course of humanity).

 

Look, I think you've crammed a lot of naive ideas into this thread (and it's not like I'm going to change them), so if you're convinced in your thinking go to whatever that future predictions betting site is and posit something to the effect of:  "By 2037 a human enterprise will have successfully extracted ore from an asteroid for productive use."  I'll gladly put my money on it not happening.

[Joyrex]

srsly man ? humans achieved so much in so little time , i think we are pretty impressive species.

 

I never said we didn't - in fact, our unbridled lust for progression without consequence is exactly why we are the current plague infesting this world. 

 

"The end of the world" is really just the end of humans innit?  This planet will continue on and some other species will rise to the top of the chain.  Nature continues to give zero fucks.

 

Not really all that sad in the broadest of spectrums, but I'm not interested in the propagation of the species anyway.... (DINK FTW)

 

 

 

**becomes a nanobot cloud forever roaming and learning of the universes beauty**

The human race, I think is an aberration - never before in the history of Earth has there been an apex species like ours - even the dinosaurs were subservient to their environment, which coupled with an asteroid colliding with earth, brought about their demise rather quickly and showed how weak they actually were as a species.

 

If mankind were ever exterminated (by our own hand or by extraterrestial beings), the Earth would begin to reclaim itself from our loosened grasp and slowly cover up clues to our former dominance. Over time, Man's mark on the Earth would be erased, but the lasting damage we've done to it may outlive the Earth's own time before the Sun consumes it during its own death throes as it becomes a red giant and envelops the inner planets of our solar system.

 

 

The human race is a plague; a disease so virulent, even itself cannot not wipe it from reality.

 

 

lol, do you have kids?

 

there are literally diseases that create more suffering than most of the human race put together

 

our problem is that we are not in control of our behavior,we dont choose our genes/parents/enviroment,the odds of you being born a greedy psychopath are as good as being born the most ethical being in the universe 

 

we know for a fact that animals are conscious and can suffer, we should've stopped eating meat the moment we learnt that fact but look at us, a mcdonalds in every corner,and the only thing thats driving this madness is our past as weird chimp-like animal 

 

LOL, yes - I have two children, but if you really think about it, just like me and millions of other humans, they'll expire one day, and make little difference in the unending march of the human race across the Earth. That's ironically the strength of the human race - one person rarely if ever enacts change on the whole. So until we act more as a gestalt, individuals attempts at change will not matter one iota, which correlates to you and I and our children being irrelevant.

 

Diseases exist in a different subset of the world than we do; only through adaptation (and sometimes human intervention) have they evolved to affect the outer world. The human race is responsible for many viruses evolving far beyond their predetermined genetic limits (bird flu is a good example) due to overuse of antibiotics and perverse over consumption of renewables.

 

We as individuals are absolutely in control of our behavior - our irresponsible reproduction and unquenchable drive for survival have created the environment we now exist in. But, until humanity as a group decides to impose limits on itself to prevent this rampant overgrowth, Man will continue to rot and corrupt anything it touches.

 

Consumption of other animals is a natural process - mankind has taken what was a normal and sustainable model and perverted it to the point where we need far more than normal for survival, and that is what has led to animals bred for consumption to suffer needlessly.

[caze]

Thanks in part to the chaos of the infosphere we still have nuclear weapons pointed at each other and have managed to put grossly incompetent and/or unethical persons in positions of power (where they can greatly influence the course of humanity).

We've had nukes pointed at each other for a while now, and had grossly incompetent and unethical people in positions of power since there have been positions of power, the world keeps turning.

 

Look, I think you've crammed a lot of naive ideas into this thread (and it's not like I'm going to change them), so if you're convinced in your thinking go to whatever that future predictions betting site is and posit something to the effect of:  "By 2037 a human enterprise will have successfully extracted ore from an asteroid for productive use."  I'll gladly put my money on it not happening.

I never put a date on it, but it's going to happen at some point.

[sweepstakes]

 

 

 

if you're convinced in your thinking go to whatever that future predictions betting site is and posit something to the effect of: "By 2037 a human enterprise will have successfully extracted ore from an asteroid for productive use." I'll gladly put my money on it not happening.

I never put a date on it, but it's going to happen at some point.

If we don't destroy ourselves or our own beautiful technology first.

 

I don't think the political aspects should be ignored. One private company can go to space, cool. No doubt it's a step in the right direction. Meanwhile the people controlling the bulk of the resources spend most of their time... securing their control of the resources. As mandated by law, mind.

 

Space travel won't scale so well without cooperation. And it seems like a better bet for the good of our species to protect what's already on Earth.

[YEK]

more hurricanes and another big earthquake in mexico guys..

[BobDobalina]

I have to imagine that future generations (if there are any, lol) will come to view climate science denial - the kind of bullshit perpetrated by puppet pols in the US like Pruitt, chair of the House Science & Tech committee cunt, Gov of Florida cunt etc. at the behest of their corporate owners - as crimes against humanity.

[cichlisuite]

a private company is already launching things into space cheaper and more efficiently than any government has managed to do before them, not sure why you think political concerns will get in the way. eventually it's going to start getting very expensive to mine stuff on earth (and very quickly too if we go down a predominantly renewables + batteries route, environmental regs will have an impact as well), asteroid mining will become cheap in comparison. the chaos of the infosphere is what drives technological advancements, it's not a hinderance.

 

 

Mining stuff on earth can get very expensive only under condition that politics interfere with acts of environmental preservation, which would be a good thing. However, mining in space is terribly inefficient and astronomically expensive with today's technology and nowhere near any feasible solution except with some futuristic ideas about orbital construction facilities and large space freighters. Energy is still very expensive today (propulsion technology still depends on earth's resources) and if you think SpaceX is nearing that with their relatively light capacity re-usable rockets you're mistaken. Private companies could definitely accelerate the development of the necessary solutions but that is merely a wishful projection for the next 50 years of trial and error and testing. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by chaos of the infosphere other than deliberately misinforming the potential investors and general public with optimistic ideas. Such speculations drive the current monetary system and this could turn out to be a bigger bite they can chew, as history can teach us.

[ambermonk]

I have to imagine that future generations (if there are any, lol) will come to view climate science denial - the kind of bullshit perpetrated by puppet pols in the US like Pruitt, chair of the House Science & Tech committee cunt, Gov of Florida cunt etc. at the behest of their corporate owners - as crimes against humanity.

Let's hope so. These GOP politicians wouldn't believe in climate change if it flooded or destroyed their house.

 

You can't fix stupid.

[spratters]

A bit late to the show but the bit about the Brass Eye pAEdo episode bought this very recent (apparently true) bit of news to mind:

 

Twisted paedophiles are impersonating chicken nuggets online in order to lure unsuspecting children.

 

They’re also pretending to be ice creams and actual roads in order to attract school kids, according to social media safety expert Dr Maureen Griffin.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/15/paedophiles-are-pretending-to-be-chicken-nuggets-on-social-media-to-lure-school-kids-6931486/

[caze]

Mining stuff on earth can get very expensive only under condition that politics interfere with acts of environmental preservation, which would be a good thing. However, mining in space is terribly inefficient and astronomically expensive with today's technology and nowhere near any feasible solution except with some futuristic ideas about orbital construction facilities and large space freighters. Energy is still very expensive today (propulsion technology still depends on earth's resources) and if you think SpaceX is nearing that with their relatively light capacity re-usable rockets you're mistaken. Private companies could definitely accelerate the development of the necessary solutions but that is merely a wishful projection for the next 50 years of trial and error and testing. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by chaos of the infosphere other than deliberately misinforming the potential investors and general public with optimistic ideas. Such speculations drive the current monetary system and this could turn out to be a bigger bite they can chew, as history can teach us.

 

no, we'll actually just run out of stuff, like rare earth metals, we're also very low on helium (there's loads on the moon). it might also be easier to mine certain other things on the moon and from asteroids because of environmental issues. you're wrong about the technological aspect as well, it's already well within our grasp technologically speaking, it's just impractical due to lack of investment, but that's eminently solveable. the energy isn't a big deal either, the only really expensive step (now that we're getting a handle on reusability) is getting out of the earth's gravity well, after that everything is relatively cheap; so the thing will be to create something sustainable in orbit, we already have some experience of that so I don't think it'll be too much work. "chaos of the infosphere" was just referring to what bob dobalina was talking about, the chaos of human society he was talking about isn't a bad thing necessarily, it's what's driven our development to where we are today.

[YO303]