Jump to content

Are Music Streaming Services Ethical?


Recommended Posts

Target and Best Buy typically have pretty terrible CD selections available (mostly popular stuff of the time and then cheap greatest hits compilations) so it's no big loss in terms of what most people buy around here. Most of the little clusters of vinyl displays are the same typical stuff too (though I did find RDJ album on vinyl at Barnes and Noble recently lol)

 

Nice to see Bandcamp continuing to see growth. It really is the go-to place for me most of the time now.

 

The new consignment model is a big shift. Granted that's something that's been chipped away for decades (the whole 100k advance for an album days are over for bands, right?) Major label distro is something not talked about often. I never realized how much physical merch becomes dead stock until recently. A extreme example is the Beach Boys album "Summer in Paradise" which sold fewer than 1000 copies worldwide but likely was printed in numbers 100x greater than that.

 

It's not going to kill the CD format but it's a fatal blow, more immediately it's going to add to the divide between the top tier major label artists and everyone else. The number of artists/albums stocked at Target will go from 100 to a dozen. Major indie labels and more niche major label signings are going to be further relegated to the same level. Best Buy in the states, pre-streaming and pre-iTunes, was a pretty common source for music for anyone looking for remotely indie music or niche genre stuff but didn't live near a record store (at least near any still open in the late 90s / early 00s). When I started actually buying music for myself (8th grade) I was living on an USAF base in England, which was a little bubble of America. The BX (Base Exchange) was like a Target/Walmart equivalent and pretty much on par with their CD selection. So returning to the states in 2001 and seeing the array of titles at Best Buy was pretty impressive. It's interesting to think now how there's going to be a litmus test of how mainstream something is by asking "is it at Target? Is it at Best Buy?" There's really no context for that anymore. It's making the posturing of certain labels, artists, and genres on streaming platforms a lot more relevant...and concerning. 

 

one time i was in a public washroom with a music streaming service & he didnt wash his hands

 

that's a different kind of unethical streaming 

 

 

get it? he pee peed and didn't wash his hands

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 107
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 

Target and Best Buy typically have pretty terrible CD selections available (mostly popular stuff of the time and then cheap greatest hits compilations) so it's no big loss in terms of what most people buy around here. Most of the little clusters of vinyl displays are the same typical stuff too (though I did find RDJ album on vinyl at Barnes and Noble recently lol)

 

Nice to see Bandcamp continuing to see growth. It really is the go-to place for me most of the time now.

 

The new consignment model is a big shift. Granted that's something that's been chipped away for decades (the whole 100k advance for an album days are over for bands, right?) Major label distro is something not talked about often. I never realized how much physical merch becomes dead stock until recently. A extreme example is the Beach Boys album "Summer in Paradise" which sold fewer than 1000 copies worldwide but likely was printed in numbers 100x greater than that.

 

It's not going to kill the CD format but it's a fatal blow, more immediately it's going to add to the divide between the top tier major label artists and everyone else. The number of artists/albums stocked at Target will go from 100 to a dozen. Major indie labels and more niche major label signings are going to be further relegated to the same level. Best Buy in the states, pre-streaming and pre-iTunes, was a pretty common source for music for anyone looking for remotely indie music or niche genre stuff but didn't live near a record store (at least near any still open in the late 90s / early 00s). When I started actually buying music for myself (8th grade) I was living on an USAF base in England, which was a little bubble of America. The BX (Base Exchange) was like a Target/Walmart equivalent and pretty much on par with their CD selection. So returning to the states in 2001 and seeing the array of titles at Best Buy was pretty impressive. It's interesting to think now how there's going to be a litmus test of how mainstream something is by asking "is it at Target? Is it at Best Buy?" There's really no context for that anymore. It's making the posturing of certain labels, artists, and genres on streaming platforms a lot more relevant...and concerning. 

 

 

Interesting that the Beach Boys would have such anemic sales.

 

I am definitely of two minds about CDs in general.

 

I still buy them for select things, and being someone that used to get hired to do CD art, it was very nice to see my art printed on them, or to buy a physical release that you know the presence of will enhance the musical experience for you;

 

But I also recognize that they are slabs of plastic that are increasingly just filling up warehouses or attics/basements/closets in people's homes. I'm happy to buy digitals as well or just have the art I do stay in the digital realm if it serves a purpose that way.

 

Best Buy in the late 90s/early 00s was a place for me to find music as well (in addition to book stores and Harmony House, when I wasn't at an actual record store). Those kinds of business deals will shut down some of the larger plants, but as with vinyl and tape dupe houses, there will still be some places to get small batches of CDs made when you want, as the gear to do it is relatively inexpensive and probably not as hard to find as say a good cassette dupe machine or vinyl pressing machinery.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I think it’s pretty fascinating what is happening to the music industry now. I still really love CDs, and for someone like me who watches new releases pretty closely, and has decent stores nearby, it still is — imo — the way to go. New releases are frequently on sale in my neck of the woods, which means when some new Warp thing (or whatever) comes out, there’s a good chance I can get it for say, 10 dollars new. And that gives me the art, rips at any quality I want, and the full (well, not LP-sized, but still) packaging experience, credits, etc.

 

10 dollars for a new release is frequently _cheaper_ than buying it on any digital music service, even Bandcamp! And top that off with the chance of finding awesome treasure for used prices at all these stores (stuff like — random Planet E comps for 4 dollars, random Warp/Rephlex/IDM back catalog for single-digits of dollars, etc.), it is a blast to go shopping now.

 

But another few years and I bet most of these stores will be closed. I’m gonna hang on as long as I can though — streaming services don’t do it for me at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ man that's a helluva chart to behold, i'd love to compare it to the models of pre-streaming, pre-digital download sales

 

So my main gripe with Spotify's otherwise very helpful "discovery" and "release radar" playlists, recommends, etc. is how they throw in a lot of payola tracks in there. Besides the occasional hilarious Russian pop crap that happens to share the name with a indie rock band or obscure electronic artists and the algorithm didn't catch it, for the most part the music is related, but they often sway towards PR-armed LA and Brooklyn acts instead of far smaller labels, artists, niche genres I actually listen to. 

Well they've thankfully rolled out beta testing for a like/dislike feature to help streamline recs better. I have it on my Discovery playlist - it lets me pick either "I don't like this song" or "I don't like this artist" or it will let me like tracks I really enjoy versus passively listen to. It will be interesting to see if they pursue this feature.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like streaming services at all - it doesn't help that my tastes don't really align with what they have to offer. I buy all my stuff, either digital or a physical release (if it's something special).

 

It sort of bothers me that these companies like Apple and Spotify just set up a few Python frameworks, wheel in some huge storage that can scale-up along with a CDN and then just watch the money roll in, while the artists get practically nothing.

 

Also, when I'm out walking in the woods or hiking mountains, nothing beats a good iPod.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Interesting post from 36 / SYNE

 

 

 

I was just reading that Apple is likely to kill their iTunes platform in the very near future, presumably to concentrate on their streaming service. Personally, I never used iTunes as I don't particularly like Apple and for the music I'm interested in, Bandcamp (or traditional record stores) tend to have the best selection. However, it did get me thinking about the nature of how people listen to music in 2018.

Only an idiot would ignore the rise of streaming services like Spotify in the current year. From my own perspective, the amount of people streaming my music on Spotify is MASSIVELY larger than those who buy my music from Bandcamp. Almost embarrassingly so. We're talking millions versus thousands (at best). It's not even a competition. I never would have guessed a couple of years ago that I'd make more money from streaming royalties than I do MP3/FLACs, but that's where we're at.

Even piracy has been hit hard and whereas sites like oink/what cd used to have massive userbases, it seems like MP3 has gone out of favour. There's still loads of crappy webblogs out there, offering 320's or flacs in exchange for a thousands ad clicks or trojan viruses, but I've definitely noticed a consumer shift away from this, towards paid streaming platforms.

From here, it seems people care far less about actually "owning" music now and prefer the convenience of just streaming it. I personally rarely listen to vinyl or cd any more and tend to still play most music on MP3/FLAC via my computer, but I've also started streaming a LOT more, especially since the range of music on Spotify is so much better now. It's got to the point where most music I like is on the platform, presumably because of online aggregates like cdbaby/tunecore who distribute everywhere simultaneously.

So yeah, I'm rambling on a bit, but how do you mostly listen to music now? Is convenience more important than the art/product/quality? Regardless, rest assured I'll continue to supply my music in as many formats as possible to cover all bases, including physical/digital/streaming etc..
Link to post
Share on other sites

The chart above isn't that useful, it doesn't display how much is paid to the record companies, just to the artist, and from what I have heard  the record companies  do shitty deals for the artist and only give them a poor percentage for streaming. I would be very interested in an objective and transparent info display of what money is involved and where it really goes, leaving none unaccounted for, as from what reliable sources I have read most of the payment money is an paid out from the streaming companies, they certainly aren't holding on to most of it. 

Edited by MDF
Link to post
Share on other sites

HOw about we do a Tyler DUrden style coordinated take-down of all the music streaming services. I WILL DESTROY SPOTIFY.

 WHo's with me?!??!???

Link to post
Share on other sites

HOw about we do a Tyler DUrden style coordinated take-down of all the music streaming services. I WILL DESTROY SPOTIFY.

 WHo's with me?!??!???

 

but how I'm going to play "Where Is My Mind" off my phone legally and conveniently while we blow up their servers & corporate HQ!?!?!?!

 

oh wait, offline mode, I forgot

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

spotify arrived to the zionist entity a couple of months ago, and the first thing i did is to turn off all of this curatory/"The Algorithm" shit. that fucking feature where they play songs after the playback of the album is really quite maddening, for some stupid reason it usually played a random song from the album which i just played. so i use it to play albums just like i'm used to.  

 

but i'm really glad that spotify and other streamers totally buried that concept where musicians believe that people are supposed to  pay them for every copy of their music and not just for their work. that made as much sense as carpenter asking for an additional payment each time a person beside the original buyer uses his chair.

Edited by eugene
Link to post
Share on other sites

you’re happy spotify gives artists jack shit, the industry gives artists jack shit and now consumers are so entitled they also give artists nothing?

 

I hate streaming services. they don’t have everything I’m looking for, they’re only as available as my cell network, which in my state means in a very small corridor along major highways, the quality is objectively bad, and they inspire this curatorial post-artistic statement treatment of music as wallpaper. it’s the final nail in the coffin for the album as an art form, which means we have playlists. I don’t engage with playlists. I don’t want to listen to your fall music mix. i am not going to discover new music by listening to completely contextless songs in this adhd frenzy to consume as much art and entertainment as possible while I idly pass whatever free time I have. that isn’t the function of art and I refuse to contribute to furthering this cultures descent into the sewer of technological innovation and convenience over everything.

Edited by zaphod
Link to post
Share on other sites

Do people really do most of their streaming over the air? I just save tracks/albums to my phone at home or work.

 

Agree about playlists though, I've got no use for them.

Edited by doublename
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hear hear.

 

 

you’re happy spotify gives artists jack shit, the industry gives artists jack shit and now consumers are so entitled they also give artists nothing?

I hate streaming services. they don’t have everything I’m looking for, they’re only as available as my cell network, which in my state means in a very small corridor along major highways, the quality is objectively bad, and they inspire this curatorial post-artistic statement treatment of music as wallpaper. it’s the final nail in the coffin for the album as an art form, which means we have playlists. I don’t engage with playlists. I don’t want to listen to your fall music mix. i am not going to discover new music by listening to completely contextless songs in this adhd frenzy to consume as much art and entertainment as possible while I idly pass whatever free time I have. that isn’t the function of art and I refuse to contribute to furthering this cultures descent into the sewer of technological innovation and convenience over everything.

Link to post
Share on other sites

90% of the music I listen to is from Spotify and I don't listen to any playlists ? Agree that the shift to online acquired media challenges the concept of an album but streaming hasn't expedited this for me. Whether I am listening to tracks from an iTunes library or streaming the outcome is the same if the entire album doesn't hold my attention

 

I also think that over the last 24 months the number of artists I listen to regularly has grown exponentially due to the Spotify "similar artists" function . Now the amount they earn from me as a listener is certainly less than If I were to be purchasing their album in the pre streaming market , but certainly more than if I had never heard them which is most likely the case .

 

I generally still try to purchase about 10 records a year from the artists I really like and want to support even though I haven't even broken the seal on many of these

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think that over the last 24 months the number of artists I listen to regularly has grown exponentially due to the Spotify "similar artists" function . Now the amount they earn from me as a listener is certainly less than If I were to be purchasing their album in the pre streaming market , but certainly more than if I had never heard them which is most likely the case .

 

 

It's similar to last.fm in that regard, but as much as it's their algorithms it's YOUR input that has steered you to find more artists you like. Honing in on what you like. Their playlists are arbitrary and payola ridden, the thousands following them might as well be listening to the radio passively.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do people really do most of their streaming over the air? I just save tracks/albums to my phone at home or work.

 

Agree about playlists though, I've got no use for them.

 

I do but I think we're in the minority. 

 

The best playlists are user created ones - i.e. curated playlists by people who actually give a shit about music. Fans actually putting together music that fits a mood or aesthetic that spans various styles and genres, not superficially 'connected' hyped tracks some interns threw together.

 

You have to hunt for them but there are playlists on Spotify that rival that of well put together mixes you'd find on blogs or soundcloud or forums like this. Algorithms can't replace good ears, personal knowledge, and context. I should note too Spotify has pretty much bucked any easy way to navigate the site using music labels artists release on and likewise they are either making up genres or redefining/diluting existing ones.

Edited by joshuatx
Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, the user curated lists are the way to go as far as playlists are concerned, but finding good ones is really cumbersome. There's also stuff like the bleep playlist (and similar) which is fine for checking out new releases. The weekly "your release radar" and "your discover weekly" algorithmically generated playlists have been somewhat successful for me as well, as far as finding new stuff to listen to, as playlists to be listened to they don't really work at all.

 

Anyway, Spotify is like having access to a fucking boundless library filled with music just waiting to be discovered, and the fact that curious listeners are writing it off because of normie playlists just boggles my mind.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Do people really do most of their streaming over the air? I just save tracks/albums to my phone at home or work.

 

Agree about playlists though, I've got no use for them.

 

I do but I think we're in the minority. 

 

The best playlists are user created ones - i.e. curated playlists by people who actually give a shit about music. Fans actually putting together music that fits a mood or aesthetic that spans various styles and genres, not superficially 'connected' hyped tracks some interns threw together.

 

You have to hunt for them but there are playlists on Spotify that rival that of well put together mixes you'd find on blogs or soundcloud or forums like this. Algorithms can't replace good ears, personal knowledge, and context. I should note too Spotify has pretty much bucked any easy way to navigate the site using music labels artists release on and likewise they are either making up genres or redefining/diluting existing ones.

 

 

 

Agreed, the user curated lists are the way to go as far as playlists are concerned, but finding good ones is really cumbersome. There's also stuff like the bleep playlist (and similar) which is fine for checking out new releases. The weekly "your release radar" and "your discover weekly" algorithmically generated playlists have been somewhat successful for me as well, as far as finding new stuff to listen to, as playlists to be listened to they don't really work at all.

 

Anyway, Spotify is like having access to a fucking boundless library filled with music just waiting to be discovered, and the fact that curious listeners are writing it off because of normie playlists just boggles my mind.

 

where are these playlists? i had spotify for years and finding good "user curated playlists" was basically impossible. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Do people really do most of their streaming over the air? I just save tracks/albums to my phone at home or work.

 

Agree about playlists though, I've got no use for them.

 

I do but I think we're in the minority. 

 

The best playlists are user created ones - i.e. curated playlists by people who actually give a shit about music. Fans actually putting together music that fits a mood or aesthetic that spans various styles and genres, not superficially 'connected' hyped tracks some interns threw together.

 

You have to hunt for them but there are playlists on Spotify that rival that of well put together mixes you'd find on blogs or soundcloud or forums like this. Algorithms can't replace good ears, personal knowledge, and context. I should note too Spotify has pretty much bucked any easy way to navigate the site using music labels artists release on and likewise they are either making up genres or redefining/diluting existing ones.

 

 

 

Agreed, the user curated lists are the way to go as far as playlists are concerned, but finding good ones is really cumbersome. There's also stuff like the bleep playlist (and similar) which is fine for checking out new releases. The weekly "your release radar" and "your discover weekly" algorithmically generated playlists have been somewhat successful for me as well, as far as finding new stuff to listen to, as playlists to be listened to they don't really work at all.

 

Anyway, Spotify is like having access to a fucking boundless library filled with music just waiting to be discovered, and the fact that curious listeners are writing it off because of normie playlists just boggles my mind.

 

where are these playlists? i had spotify for years and finding good "user curated playlists" was basically impossible. 

 

https://open.spotify.com/user/regulator227/playlist/64elWS6iCVUhVPg1TWRTVo

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Joyrex
      Let an AI judge your (questionable) taste in music: https://pudding.cool/2020/12/judge-my-spotify/
    • By Joyrex
      I'm trying to get Apple Music embeds working - does anyone see the above? To use the embed:
      Go to https://music.apple.com or find an Apple Music track you'd like to share. Click the "..." button and then choose Share Choose Copy Embed Code In the editor, click on the Apple Music logo and paste in the copied URL. 
    • By chenGOD
      In here we post aspirational objects that can only be obtained by exploiting the proletariat and the means of production.
      Two from me:
      The Audi RS6 Avant Wagon (specifically in this colour):

      This thing does 0-60 in 3.5, has space to take the fam camping, has that incredible Audi handling and it's beautiful (it will also consume huge quantities of dead dinosaurs). $109K US.
      The other object of my material desire is an original Eames lounge chair and ottoman.

      At first I was like $6K for a chair? But after you sit in one you're like damnnnnnnn.
       
    • By Joyrex
      https://audius.co/
      I guess they're going to try and not repeat some of SoundCloud's mistakes?
    • By Joyrex
      Spotify announced today they are welcoming SoundBetter (think TaskRabbit for musicians and engineers in the music industry) into their Spotify for Artists services: https://artists.spotify.com/blog/spotify-for-artists-and-soundbetter

×
×
  • Create New...