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Cryptocurrency as the next significant stage for computing technology, not just an investment


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RH will be reopening "partial trades" tomorrow, assume they mean market buys and no margins. They've still likely FUBAR'ed themselves with today's mess. shit is imminent. HOOOLD! 

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59 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Yeah - and saying that GameStop is a good investment is completely false information.

I agree on the second part - must have been more sleep deprived than normal when I wrote that an hour ago lol.

 

Theres been absolutely no ambiguity on this from the start, all the big players on reddit have been saying that this was exactly possible. Because hedge funds have shorted over 100 percent of the stock, they are so sure of its demise that they have overleveraged themselves (illegally) and its feasible to force them so cover their shorts and inflate the stock price massively. There hasnt been much, or any, trickery regarding gamestop actually being a good investment. Just that a team of coordinated stock buyers on the internet that convinced themselves and consequently others that they could essentially trigger an enormous and infinite squeeze on the hedge funds that openly and mockingly shorted the company. Whats mental is that the deepvalue guy came up with this plan in 2019.

whether thats entirely legal or not i have no fucking idea.

Edited by pcock
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Yeah and now you have people on there saying “we like the stock”.  

Please don’t misconstrue what I’m saying: I’m 100% against what the hedge funds are doing (and I don’t even think shorting should be legal), but if there is a hint of coordination to manipulate a stock (i.e. pump and dump), the SEC will come down hard on retail investors. 

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2 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

"investment" is a word that depends on time horizons.  right now or at least at some point in the recent past, it is and was a good investment, assuming they are forced according to the law to buy back the shares they shorted as they should be, which will drive the price up higher.

GameStop the company is a terrible investment. GameStop the idea on the stock market is a risky gamble that could cause people to lose their complete investment. You can’t hold GameStop, it’s going broke and doesn’t look like it has any intention of changing its business model. If it declares chapter 11 (or even chapter 7 I think) then shareholders receive nothing. 
For people to realize gains, that means selling. Once major shareholders (which are primarily other hedge funds) start selling off, panic selling will occur. 
 

It’s ridiculous to think that causing one hedge fund to crash will mean anything. And what they’re really doing is increasing the wealth of Vanguard and a couple of other hedge funds.  But yeah, that deepvalue guy might make $20M so good for him?

2 hours ago, chim said:

RH will be reopening "partial trades" tomorrow, assume they mean market buys and no margins. They've still likely FUBAR'ed themselves with today's mess. shit is imminent. HOOOLD! 

If I were a gambling man, I’d short RH (if they were publicly traded).

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12 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

I have no idea what's going on

neither does chen or millions who have suddenly become experts on Wall Street over the last couple days, just jump in! the water’s great, it’s made of tears :catcry:

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Lol I have a pretty decent idea of what’s going on with this particular short squeeze, but I’m not offering any investment advice. 
 

Heres a good explainer:

 

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42 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Lol I have a pretty decent idea of what’s going on with this particular short squeeze, but I’m not offering any investment advice. 

i'm not sure about that my dude, see:

4 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Yeah - and saying that GameStop is a good investment is completely false information.

tell that to the thousands of people who have made big money* over the last few days.

1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

GameStop the company is a terrible investment. GameStop the idea on the stock market is a risky gamble that could cause people to lose their complete investment. You can’t hold GameStop, it’s going broke and doesn’t look like it has any intention of changing its business model. If it declares chapter 11 (or even chapter 7 I think) then shareholders receive nothing. 
For people to realize gains, that means selling. Once major shareholders (which are primarily other hedge funds) start selling off, panic selling will occur. 

GameStop the company just got a new CEO, and they've consistently made very serious cuts over the last few years in efforts to keep themselves afloat (plus now with two new consoles released, the gaming PC market being kinda wild right now, upcoming new Nintendo console in a year or two? all kinds of possible revenue sources if they can change up and adapt their placement in the industry, pure speculation here obv)... are they guaranteed to not get deep sixed in a month or a year? no of course not, but even then, their worth as a company could retain some/much current value, by getting bought out or infused with extra funding via outside companies and propped up until they can regroup. it sure fucking worked for Apple (obv not saying Gamestop is Apple lol) but who knows what could happen with GS as a company over the next 10 years.

but anyway, that's the whole thing with the stock market. you're not necessarily betting on the long term unless you are. the people who punched in a few bucks a few days ago are feeling pretty good, *some have sure cashed out partials, some will sit on the rest, most are fine because most didn't invest much anyway because most of them aren't idiots (i hope).

there doesn't seem to be any panic selling, just some 'reset' selling... a few are cashing out some but overall there's no panic happening, and if it's not happened yet it probably won't, because most of them invested so little anyway. they know what they're in for, it doesn't seem that you do tho dude. they're playing the game like it's supposed to be played, like these hedge funds have been doing against each other and companies and of course the general public. fucking over the other at any cost...these Melvins are just getting fucked by the 'common' people now is all that's different.

2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

It’s ridiculous to think that causing one hedge fund to crash will mean anything. 

maybe not. the larger infrastructure will likely prop up the individual actors, but who knows....looks like you may be speaking too soon.

Quote

More hedge funds are being hit by losses on the recent market turmoil.

Traders say the pain that has afflicted top hedge funds Melvin Capital Management and Maplelane Capital in recent days is spreading, as an increasing number of stocks with significant short interest surge and as funds dealing with losses pull back their exposure to the stock market on both the long and short sides of their portfolios.

That means funds are getting hurt even on previously profitable bets on companies as other funds exit their investments in the same firms. The pain is largely being caused by the broad market turmoil and not one specific stock.

Candlestick Capital Management, a roughly $3 billion Greenwich, Conn., hedge fund started by former Citadel portfolio manager Jack Woodruff, was down in the low- to midteens for the year through Wednesday, said a person familiar with the fund. It was up 26% in 2020, its first year.

 

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49 minutes ago, dingformung said:

free market capitalism is the best, god bless america. where is caze to explain to us how this is good for humanity?

it's quite clear that not only do events like this expose inefficiencies in the markets, but they also allow the potential for future exploitation of these market inefficiencies in a way that in the longterm increases the fluidity of all traded assets in the markets by reallocating capital to those capitalists most able to predict future market trends, resulting in capital becoming more capable of flowing through lending into the hands of revolutionary capitalists wishing to perform market disruption through creative destruction of the relevance of previous organizations' commodity production and service providing methods, which in the end of course always benefits consumers because we know that increased centralization of capital will never result in that capital aiming to entrench itself as a producer of commodities of provider of services in an even deeper way than the previous capital, because that would increase its labor surplus value extraction capabilities in a way that is more harmful to workers than the net gains those same workers receive as consumers /s or something

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12 minutes ago, auxien said:

tell that to the thousands of people who have made big money*

Nobody has made big money. You need to sell if you want to realize gains, and what is the rallying cry over on WSB? Hold it until they die.

 

17 minutes ago, auxien said:

GameStop the company just got a new CEO, and they've consistently made very serious cuts over the last few years in efforts to keep themselves afloat (plus now with two new consoles released, the gaming PC market being kinda wild right now, upcoming new Nintendo console in a year or two? all kinds of possible revenue sources if they can change up and adapt their placement in the industry, pure speculation here obv)... are they guaranteed to not get deep sixed in a month or a year? no of course not, but even then, their worth as a company could retain some/much current value, by getting bought out or infused with extra funding via outside companies and propped up until they can regroup. it sure fucking worked for Apple (obv not saying Gamestop is Apple lol) but who knows what could happen with GS as a company over the next 10 years.

Gamestop net sales continue to decrease, even as they continue to "de-densify" (read close stores), and while they have made a switch over to e-commerce, why would anyone buy games from GameStop when they can purchase direct from the marketplace of their console? And with the PS5 and XboxX or whatever the fuck it's called offering discless machines....do I need to keep going? As an investment, it makes no sense. Writing is on the wall. You can't compare them to any company that manufactures things, because gamestop doesn't, they are a service provider that's been overtaken by technology.   As a gamble sure.

That WSJ article talks about hedge funds, but the real players are the mutual funds like Vanguard, Blackrock, Fidelity etc. Look at Vanguard (I like Vanguard, sue me) - they own 1.2M shares of GME spread over 40 funds. At the current price of $200 (rounded up slightly), that would be $240M. Which sounds like a lot, but Vanguard has $7.1T in assets under management. Blackrock has over $9T in assets under management. So yeah, the hedge funds will get fucked, but that's good - they don't invest, they gamble. So fuck em.

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13 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Nobody has made big money. You need to sell if you want to realize gains, and what is the rallying cry over on WSB? Hold it until they die.

 

Gamestop net sales continue to decrease, even as they continue to "de-densify" (read close stores), and while they have made a switch over to e-commerce, why would anyone buy games from GameStop when they can purchase direct from the marketplace of their console? And with the PS5 and XboxX or whatever the fuck it's called offering discless machines....do I need to keep going? As an investment, it makes no sense. Writing is on the wall. You can't compare them to any company that manufactures things, because gamestop doesn't, they are a service provider that's been overtaken by technology.   As a gamble sure.

That WSJ article talks about hedge funds, but the real players are the mutual funds like Vanguard, Blackrock, Fidelity etc. Look at Vanguard (I like Vanguard, sue me) - they own 1.2M shares of GME spread over 40 funds. At the current price of $200 (rounded up slightly), that would be $240M. Which sounds like a lot, but Vanguard has $7.1T in assets under management. Blackrock has over $9T in assets under management. So yeah, the hedge funds will get fucked, but that's good - they don't invest, they gamble. So fuck em.

the absolute mental gymnastics of capitalists saying gamestop is not a good investment when it went from $10 to almost $500 in the past couple weeks and still sits at $200

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13 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

the absolute mental gymnastics of capitalists saying gamestop is not a good investment when it went from $10 to almost $500 in the past couple weeks and still sits at $200

a) I'm not a capitalist (at least not in the sense that you probably consider), b) you understand that all that money is imaginary right, and just like the "value" of BTC, is only based on fairy dust and wishes.

So yeah, it's not a good investment. It's a good gamble, maybe.

And as you're so intent on cheering this on:

Quote

Wall Street is the one overwhelmingly profiting from this, Blackrock alone made $2.4 Billion from GME yesterday. The two hedge funds who fucked up shorting the synthetic longs past 100% of the float and creating a liquidity trap are relatively minor players and will get bailed out with a new capital injection from Point72 and Citadel. The megacaps are loving this, they're simultaneously picking up 30% margin interest from shorts while selling comically overinflated stock to Redditors.

Professional traders on the other hand also love all this dumb money volatility, especially when its so predictable. They have no access to Level 2 NYSE data, no clue about what's in the order flow, they're citing outdated short % numbers from Yahoo Finance or other public sites, and they're like shrimp being lead into a penny stock in the 90s. Wall Street loves nothing more than to see the shrimp lining up on one side of the trade.

Its the multi-trillion dollar AUM players like the Vanguards and Blackrocks that created the synthetic longs that were leveraged for short contracts and that drove the >100% short ratio, they are the ones who loaned the stock to these smaller hedge funds to short, it was them who picked up huge margin fees and it will be them who will now receive massively inflated GME stock back as shorts cover (for all of them the average acquisition price was in the single or teen digits) and they will now sell it at $300 to the clueless retail shrimp reading about this on Reddit/Twitter and jumping onto their Robinhood app to go on a crusade against Wall Street.

 

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1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

Nobody has made big money. You need to sell if you want to realize gains, and what is the rallying cry over on WSB? Hold it until they die.

some have obviously cashed out partially or a few fully i’m sure. most are keeping all or most of their spend in. you’re not a total fucking idiot chen, quit acting like one when it benefits your momentary argument.

1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

why would anyone buy games from GameStop when they can purchase direct from the marketplace of their console?

why would anyone continue to show up at WATMM? i can just follow Warp on Twitter and buy directly from Bleep or discogs.com. a forum...for IDM nerds? in 2021? lol as if. ..... but sometimes things just happen and (sorta) keep on despite all reason and logic predicting otherwise. 

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1 hour ago, auxien said:
3 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Nobody has made big money. You need to sell if you want to realize gains, and what is the rallying cry over on WSB? Hold it until they die.

some have obviously cashed out partially or a few fully i’m sure. most are keeping all or most of their spend in. you’re not a total fucking idiot chen, quit acting like one when it benefits your momentary argument.

Sure yes some - I meant like on a large scale, but fine. Like redditors are talking about "the largest transfer of wealth ever" blah blah.

1 hour ago, auxien said:
3 hours ago, chenGOD said:

why would anyone buy games from GameStop when they can purchase direct from the marketplace of their console?

why would anyone continue to show up at WATMM? i can just follow Warp on Twitter and buy directly from Bleep or discogs.com. a forum...for IDM nerds? in 2021? lol as if. ..... but sometimes things just happen and (sorta) keep on despite all reason and logic predicting otherwise. 

WATMM offers a different service than either of those, where else would you be able to follow a 4 page argument on a comma and still get IDM references.

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But I disagree that money's value is based on fairy tales. The value of any money, even back in the days of the gold standard, is based on humanity's assumption that WORK will still be done tomorrow rather than everyone just saying "aww fuck it" and letting everything fall into chaos.

Money is a proxy for productive work/output... a way to convert your productive work into a universal format that you can trade for other productive work without worrying that your work won't be accepted as direct payment for whatever you happen to be in need of at the time.

 

Just like "real" money has value because of the trust that productive output is assured, the "value" in BTC is the "proof of work" - a demonstration that the hash wasn't effortlessly generated (thus having no worth). The difficulty in computing a valid coin is just a virtual simulation of a person's "hard days' work", and the newly minted coin produced by that work is the payment for the work. But it's just a computer simulation of human barter.  People have taken it way too seriously and taken the whole experiment too far.
 

BTC is NOT decentralized or anonymous. It utterly depends on the Internet, which is actually quite centralized in this day and age (i.e. it isn't made up of individual users' computers any more), and it is controlled by a relatively small handful of companies. Most of the enormous electricity requirement, and almost all of the intellectual property and manufacturing prowess required to support the computer software is located within China and controlled by the CCP.  Without China's coal and hydro power, the rest of the world's compute power would not be enough to support the hashrate needed to continue network operation. Without China's manufacturing and raw materials, there wouldn't be a sustainable source of hardware to continue network operation as old hardware becomes obsolete and nonfunctional.

And that doesn't even touch on the fact that the physical equipment that makes the Internet itself possible (fiber optic cables, switching/routing hardware, PoP facilities, datacenters) are owned by relatively small number of corporations and nation-states. With a couple keystrokes, two Internet Service Providers can cut off 20% of the global internet user population with little to no lasting repercussion. With a couple keystrokes, those same two network operators could knock nearly 70% of the global hashrate offline. There is not really much stopping the CCP from declaring the value of all Chinese-mined coins to be property of the govt and part of its GDP.

At the end of the day, the corps, banks and govts who own, finance, operate and regulate the internet ultimately decide what traffic is allowed to flow through their property. Tor and BTC are permitted to function today, they aren't inalienable rights.  I don't see the value in BTC because it is too dependent on a massive corporate technology stack, it runs on govt subsidized electricity, it will be broken wide open by quantum computers, and isn't even waterproof FFS. 

Edited by JS20
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10 minutes ago, JS20 said:

But I disagree that money's value is based on fairy tales

Not all money - but most of the stock market and in particular this stock is based on hopes and dreams. Because the fundamental business model of gamestop is not worth anything close to it's stock price.

 

12 minutes ago, JS20 said:

isn't even waterproof FFS

LOL

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3 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Nobody has made big money. You need to sell if you want to realize gains, and what is the rallying cry over on WSB? Hold it until they die.

 

Gamestop net sales continue to decrease, even as they continue to "de-densify" (read close stores), and while they have made a switch over to e-commerce, why would anyone buy games from GameStop when they can purchase direct from the marketplace of their console? And with the PS5 and XboxX or whatever the fuck it's called offering discless machines....do I need to keep going? As an investment, it makes no sense. Writing is on the wall. You can't compare them to any company that manufactures things, because gamestop doesn't, they are a service provider that's been overtaken by technology.   As a gamble sure.

That WSJ article talks about hedge funds, but the real players are the mutual funds like Vanguard, Blackrock, Fidelity etc. Look at Vanguard (I like Vanguard, sue me) - they own 1.2M shares of GME spread over 40 funds. At the current price of $200 (rounded up slightly), that would be $240M. Which sounds like a lot, but Vanguard has $7.1T in assets under management. Blackrock has over $9T in assets under management. So yeah, the hedge funds will get fucked, but that's good - they don't invest, they gamble. So fuck em.

I'm reading reddit just like you, but if the wall street journal is reporting that the short elements of these squeezes are already down approx 70 billion, and the opposing side of that loss is combined GME, BB, and AMC retail holders holding shares en masse, and the theorised short squeeze all VW 2008 is still potentially going to raise GME price by over 500 percent, then is that not one of the greatest transfers of wealth? We are approaching 1 percenter money here, easy. 

 

The end game here is to sell when the price is so high that it folds the other end of the trades, the shorts. They have no defined risk ceiling and no way of exiting the trade. The CEO of IBKR literally circumvented free market capitalism and went on the financial news and openly stated they had to cease trading ability fir retail because their losses were exceeding what they could capably handle yesterday.

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1 hour ago, JS20 said:

But I disagree that money's value is based on fairy tales. The value of any money, even back in the days of the gold standard, is based on humanity's assumption that WORK will still be done tomorrow rather than everyone just saying "aww fuck it" and letting everything fall into chaos.

Money is a proxy for productive work/output... a way to convert your productive work into a universal format that you can trade for other productive work without worrying that your work won't be accepted as direct payment for whatever you happen to be in need of at the time.

 

Just like "real" money has value because of the trust that productive output is assured, the "value" in BTC is the "proof of work" - a demonstration that the hash wasn't effortlessly generated (thus having no worth). The difficulty in computing a valid coin is just a virtual simulation of a person's "hard days' work", and the newly minted coin produced by that work is the payment for the work. But it's just a computer simulation of human barter.  People have taken it way too seriously and taken the whole experiment too far.
 

BTC is NOT decentralized or anonymous. It utterly depends on the Internet, which is actually quite centralized in this day and age (i.e. it isn't made up of individual users' computers any more), and it is controlled by a relatively small handful of companies. Most of the enormous electricity requirement, and almost all of the intellectual property and manufacturing prowess required to support the computer software is located within China and controlled by the CCP.  Without China's coal and hydro power, the rest of the world's compute power would not be enough to support the hashrate needed to continue network operation. Without China's manufacturing and raw materials, there wouldn't be a sustainable source of hardware to continue network operation as old hardware becomes obsolete and nonfunctional.

And that doesn't even touch on the fact that the physical equipment that makes the Internet itself possible (fiber optic cables, switching/routing hardware, PoP facilities, datacenters) are owned by relatively small number of corporations and nation-states. With a couple keystrokes, two Internet Service Providers can cut off 20% of the global internet user population with little to no lasting repercussion. With a couple keystrokes, those same two network operators could knock nearly 70% of the global hashrate offline. There is not really much stopping the CCP from declaring the value of all Chinese-mined coins to be property of the govt and part of its GDP.

At the end of the day, the corps, banks and govts who own, finance, operate and regulate the internet ultimately decide what traffic is allowed to flow through their property. Tor and BTC are permitted to function today, they aren't inalienable rights.  I don't see the value in BTC because it is too dependent on a massive corporate technology stack, it runs on govt subsidized electricity, it will be broken wide open by quantum computers, and isn't even waterproof FFS. 

the network requirements of running a mining operation are extremely minor.  a single network node infiltrating a geographical region suffering a partition attack can supply transaction and block state information to anyone they want to using a variety of methods.  the internet's lack of decentralization does not negate bitcoin's fundamental decentralization, despite its arguable lack of practical decentralization.  if you want to be anonymous on it you can through round trips through the monero blockchain and others.  and you can do this all through tor. while your analysis of money's value being rooted in its essence as accumulated labor is entirely valid, bitcoin deepens the abstraction further into thermodynamic work as computation, a much more pure and less political form, when the distribution of computational resources' political character is ignored.  when dissected in a way such as this, bitcoin's failures resolve themselves are being caused entirely by capitalism.  if decentralized protocols and even distribution of the means of computation were the norm, bitcoin truly would be decentralized in the way its idealization implies.  so i fully accept any and all criticisms of bitcoin and take them as nothing more than an indication that we need communism

the CCP cannot claim all bitcoin as its own unless they decide to torture everyone in the country to extract private key generating seed phrases from each citizens' mind, in which case we've entered territory where no form of money, gold, fiat, or computational, will avoid such inhumanity.  as for tor being allowed to exist, you're projecting negatively into the future and ignoring the positive projections.  tor can be encoded steganographically in the noise of voice calls, how exactly can governments prevent that?

any technical issue you bring up can be countered with a technical solution and any criticism rooted not in technicality is just rooted in capitalism and centralization of power, each indicating a requirement for the free associative labor of the achievement of communism to allow Free and Open Source Hardware and Software and truly decentralized cryptocurrencies and internet

as for trivial but funny complaints of it not being waterproof, it is waterproof, you can etch private keys into metal.  the network itself with its distributed nature is also of course waterproof, but you already knew this

Edited by cyanobacteria
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