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Cryptocurrency as the next significant stage for computing technology, not just an investment


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9 minutes ago, dingformung said:

Is legality really a criterium for a medium of exchange to be considered a currency, though?

Stores are required to take legal currency in exchange for goods and services, they are not required to take cigarettes. So I'd say that legality definitely has an impact when considering whether or not something is a currency (if you are seeking to enforce contacts). Cigarettes may be a medium of exchange, but I think it only fulfills the necessary conditions (including a unit of account) to be called a currency in special circumstances (prison for example). Apparently, instant ramen is now the preferred prison currency. lol

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ok consider this: digital currencies, racing through "the web." i say racing bc they are absolutely going fast, sonic levels of speed. if you think about it, sonic is the symbol of crypto par excellen

this attitude is in direct contravention of WATMM's core principles.

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1 minute ago, chenGOD said:

Cigarettes may be a medium of exchange, but I think it only fulfills the necessary conditions (including a unit of account) to be called a currency in special circumstances (prison for example). Apparently, instant ramen is now the preferred prison currency. lol

Yeah, that's what I meant by 

1 hour ago, dingformung said:

Cigarettes can be a currency, too, if they are used as that.

And I'd argue that the only criterium for an exchange medium to be considered a currency is its usage as a currency (old currencies that aren't used anymore may be an exception). In case of cryptocurrencies, some people use them as an investment/gamble/virtual asset, some actually use them as a currency to buy and sell things (black market).

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1 hour ago, dingformung said:

I'd say it's a currency so long as it is used as one. Cigarettes can be a currency, too, if they are used as that.

  1. The value of a currency has to be stable - the value should not change from minute to minute or even month to month: e.g. you should know how much you have to pay for bread. The extreme volatility of e.g. BTC means that it's not stable.
  2. Currency is something that is accepted everywhere at face value: 10 USD is 10 USD and thus it's accepted wherever USD is used. You can't say the same about BTC (or cigarettes). There's also the problem of transaction volume, where e.g. BTC is not even a blip on the radar when compared to actual currencies.
  3. A currency is backed by the central bank of a country. Here, the cryptocurrency acolyte will yell OH NO YOU DIDN'T and start expounding about the distributed, non-centralized paradise that awaits, let the central banks, countries and the world crumble -
Quote
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

-- Percy Bysshe Shelley, Ozymandias

...and here I am again, pulled back into this quagmire of a thread, and there will be yet another reply telling me that oh-you're-so-wrong-and-here's-why-can't-you-see-how-shiny-this-thing-is and I'm just going to facepalm quietly and whisper "FFS" to myself.

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@dingformung So all well and good, as long as one doesn't expect any recourse to the legal system if using them as currency. Although that may depend on the terms of service the vendor has described (i.e. they will only accept legal tender). An interesting puzzle, especially if one considers barter for property (crypto is considered property in the US).

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6 minutes ago, dcom said:
  • The value of a currency has to be stable - the value should not change from minute to minute or even month to month: e.g. you should know how much you have to pay for bread. The extreme volatility of e.g. BTC means that it's not stable.
  • Currency is something that is accepted everywhere at face value: 10 USD is 10 USD and thus it's accepted wherever USD is used. You can't say the same about BTC (or cigarettes). There's also the problem of transaction volume, where e.g. BTC is not even a blip on the radar when compared to actual currencies.
  • A currency is backed by the central bank of a country. Here, the cryptocurrency acolyte will yell OH NO YOU DIDN'T and start expounding about the distributed, non-centralized paradise that awaits, let the central banks, countries and the world crumble -

I actually don't think any of those need to be true to be considered a currency (ignoring the legal argument I make above), but I think they are ideal conditions for widespread use.

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1 hour ago, dingformung said:

Hmmm, not really sure if I understand. I'm generally sceptical of using complex automated technology for decision making in political processes, but I'm not sure in how far that relates to what you were saying.

I am too, there are tons of prerequisites, like even distribution of the means of producing CPUs across the world, and all software and hardware being Free and Open Source, but luckily this is an inherent characteristic of global communism

--

these semantic arguments over currency are meaningless to me.  there are MMORPGs with currency more stably valuable than the state-issued fiat currencies of some countries like Venezuela

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33 minutes ago, dcom said:
  1. The value of a currency has to be stable - the value should not change from minute to minute or even month to month: e.g. you should know how much you have to pay for bread. The extreme volatility of e.g. BTC means that it's not stable.
  2. Currency is something that is accepted everywhere at face value: 10 USD is 10 USD and thus it's accepted wherever USD is used. You can't say the same about BTC (or cigarettes). There's also the problem of transaction volume, where e.g. BTC is not even a blip on the radar when compared to actual currencies.
  3. A currency is backed by the central bank of a country. Here, the cryptocurrency acolyte will yell OH NO YOU DIDN'T and start expounding about the distributed, non-centralized paradise that awaits, let the central banks, countries and the world crumble -

-- Percy Bysshe Shelley, Ozymandias

...and here I am again, pulled back into this quagmire of a thread, and there will be yet another reply telling me that oh-you're-so-wrong-and-here's-why-can't-you-see-how-shiny-this-thing-is and I'm just going to facepalm quietly and whisper "FFS" to myself.

I dispute these definitions of currency as being not even related to currency

  1. a currency can only be stable under global imperial capitalism if its issuing country has economic hegemony which is a quality of exploitation capabilities of that country, not the currency itself
  2. indeed fungibility
  3. this is a new phenomenon, currency did not exist before central banking?
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22 minutes ago, dcom said:
  1. The value of a currency has to be stable - the value should not change from minute to minute or even month to month: e.g. you should know how much you have to pay for bread. The extreme volatility of e.g. BTC means that it's not stable.
  2. Currency is something that is accepted everywhere at face value: 10 USD is 10 USD and thus it's accepted wherever USD is used. You can't say the same about BTC (or cigarettes). There's also the problem of transaction volume, where e.g. BTC is not even a blip on the radar when compared to actual currencies.

1. legal government tender exchange rates are constantly changing slightly and sometimes drastically. the price of bread, and everything, changes damned near every time you look. interest rates (generally set by gov's in some amount of coordination with the banking industry) changes regularly. 'stability' of a currency within that system in order to pay for legally bound rates in exchange for a debt owed is backed by the power of the government, but that government does not exist in a vacuum. most major govs are not as volatile as BTC or Zimbabwe's big ordeal, but 'stability' is relative. 

2. currency is whatever is available and in some relative sense, reliable: https://www.finance-watch.org/the-perfect-draw-when-cigarettes-became-a-war-camp-currency/

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This situation worsened when prisoners realised that rolled cigarettes were even cheaper. “Hand-rolled cigarettes were not homogeneous and prices could no longer be quoted in them with safety: each cigarette was examined before it was accepted and thin ones were rejected, or extra demanded as a make-weight. For a time we suffered all the inconveniences of a debased currency”

this whole currency argument is fucking stupid tho, it's just goddamned marketing semantics. we sound like a bunch of boring cunts.

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4 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

I dispute these definitions of currency as being not even related to currency

You may dispute whatever you wish, I was very simply driving my point towards ridiculousness without any pretense to be correct and trying to write myself out of this idiotic rut that I'm in, responding to a topic I have no real interest in. Then you'll reply that I have a funny way of showing it because I'm actively participating, therefore proving that I'm wrong even when I'm talking about myself and I really don't care about this topic why am I still writing?

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1 minute ago, dingformung said:

What do you mean? Currencies are my passion. Fuck off if you have a problem with that

Excellent, with your explicit permission this is me effin' off from this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by dcom
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10 minutes ago, dingformung said:

What do you mean? Currencies are my passion. Fuck off if you have a problem with that

I thought your passion was trolling me. I'm a little hurt tbhbbq.

19 minutes ago, auxien said:

this whole currency argument is fucking stupid tho, it's just goddamned marketing semantics. we sound like a bunch of boring cunts

I mean, there are legal implications though, so it's not just marketing semantics.

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i was about to make a joke about what happens when you put 2 people on the autism spectrum in the same room but then i changed my mind, thought it might be misunderstood and generate unwanted arguments

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3 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

i was about to make a joke about what happens when you put 2 people on the autism spectrum in the same room but then i changed my mind, thought it might be misunderstood and generate unwanted arguments

theres many possibilities depending on where they are on the spectrum.  the room might be silent, it might be loud, it might look like the average watmm thread, we may never know

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12 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

I mean, there are legal implications though, so it's not just marketing semantics.

write me up a 5,000 word essay explaining why and the history of this please. i'll need it on my desk in the morning.

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2 minutes ago, auxien said:

write me up a 5,000 word essay explaining why and the history of this please. i'll need it on my desk in the morning.

pay me. I do take BTC, but not cigarettes.

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the inevitable GME comedown. good job redditors, you fixed the world again.

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You won't make any money on the stock market thinking a week is a long time. 

I ended up getting money stolen from my account by my brokerage over that shit they were so desperate to get me to sell, and they are still paying for adverts making sure everyone knows they've covered their shorts. I'm reassessing the situation mid April.

Edited by pcock
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37 minutes ago, pcock said:

I ended up getting money stolen from my account by my brokerage over that shit they were so desperate to get me to sell, and they are still paying for adverts making sure everyone knows they've covered their shorts. 

Well, that doesn't sound legal?

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Just now, Silent Member said:

Well, that doesn't sound legal?

It doesn't to me either, but there's not alot I can do about it apart from move broker, which I've done. They auto applied super high stoplosses and charged me to remove them. If I hadn't have removed them I would have lost my shares at a loss. It would be better for me to just hold them now to see how it plays out. 

 

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5 minutes ago, pcock said:

It doesn't to me either, but there's not alot I can do about it apart from move broker, which I've done. They auto applied super high stoplosses and charged me to remove them. If I hadn't have removed them I would have lost my shares at a loss. It would be better for me to just hold them now to see how it plays out. 

 

It was up 58 percent after open yesterday, and once again, they shut the whole stock down and lo and behold a slow bleed all day after that. 

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4 hours ago, pcock said:

It doesn't to me either, but there's not alot I can do about it apart from move broker, which I've done. They auto applied super high stoplosses and charged me to remove them. If I hadn't have removed them I would have lost my shares at a loss. It would be better for me to just hold them now to see how it plays out. 

 

This sucks.

I am on trading 212 myself for some Penny / meme stonk lols now and then. Just started with those though. Not sure where it's gonna go. Bought some sub Penny vape stock, got a million shares for about 750 euros. Then it went up and I could sell 500k for 750 euros. So now I just have 500k for free basically and I'll see where it goes. I could post the ticket here but maybe that's considered spam I don't know I'll put in a spoiler

Spoiler

it's $hcmc

 

 

 

 

 

 

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