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Cryptocurrency as the next significant stage for computing technology, not just an investment


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Bill Gates on crypto on Reddit AMA:

 

"The main feature of crypto currencies is their anonymity. I don't think this is a good thing. The Governments ability to find money laundering and tax evasion and terrorist funding is a good thing. Right now crypto currencies are used for buying fentanyl and other drugs so it is a rare technology that has caused deaths in a fairly direct way. I think the speculative wave around ICOs and crypto currencies is super risky for those who go long"

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  • 2 months later...
Guest Ovitus

I had money in Bitcoin since the original SilkRoads was around years back.. and have used it up until recently in similar marketplaces. if I had just held on to it instead of using it to buy grey market psychedelics and CBD marijuana, I'd probably be rich now. Since the crash I have invested some money in Cardano because the team looks promising and it's supposed to compete with Ethereum. Hopefully crypto recovers in the next year or two. Not sure if we've hit the bottom yet.

 

Greed aside, the technology is fascinating. I admit most of the technicalities goes over my head, but DAPPS in particular with collective computing power and decentralization to counter censorship is intriguing.

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I had money in Bitcoin since the original SilkRoads was around years back.. and have used it up until recently in similar marketplaces. if I had just held on to it instead of using it to buy grey market psychedelics and CBD marijuana, I'd probably be rich now. Since the crash I have invested some money in Cardano because the team looks promising and it's supposed to compete with Ethereum. Hopefully crypto recovers in the next year or two. Not sure if we've hit the bottom yet.

 

Greed aside, the technology is fascinating. I admit most of the technicalities goes over my head, but DAPPS in particular with collective computing power and decentralization to counter censorship is intriguing.

 

Yeah same here, could be rich now, instead made 1k of € and spend rest on exotic psychedelics at the wrong time

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I had a guy I knew who made a good few grand on BC, but he'd cashed them out a couple years before the big boom in 2017. He would've been pretty fucking rich if he'd held them longer, but ya know.

 

At multiple points in time over the last five years I've considered buying BC and others, but never have gone through with it, I'm way cheap and mostly kinda poor (especially lately). Would love to get in doing some short term trading, but that shit's dangerous right now with various groups supposedly doing tons of price manipulation and all.

 

Also didn't read the beginning of the thread so I dunno what sorta mumbo jumbo the significant stage of humanity thing was all about and honestly not too interested but anyway...give me some tips so I can get quickly rich. That's what this is for right???!?!?

 

:)

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Yeah I think there's definitely some investment in the growing countries right now, hopefully beneficial for everyone involved, I assume you have to really have some money for that sort of thing, though I could be wrong of course.

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ive got 0.6 of a bitcoin now,  been spending all my tips on it each week irrelevant of price. im going to buy 1 whole bitcoin and then just try and forget about it for a few years.

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ive got 0.6 of a bitcoin now, been spending all my tips on it each week irrelevant of price. im going to buy 1 whole bitcoin and then just try and forget about it for a few years.

Not a bad idea or way of doing things maybe. I've been (theoretically) torn between the ideas of investing in Bitcoin and investing in new but promising cryptocurrencies. I'd probably do both tbh.
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  • 3 months later...

going to leave this technical analysis here for those profiteering types, a good buy zone for long-term investment might be upcoming:

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BLX/BiVh8LiU-Bitcoin-s-Three-Market-Cycles-Time-Price-Observations/

 

just think of all the time saved for more personal endeavors and hobbies with that potential return of investment..

 

still have my money on ADA. even their design team sounds pretty decent:

 

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well unless it's some elaborate scam, which I doubt.. their roadmap shows they plan to slowly roll out delegated proof of stake next year, then it will be decentralized.

 

The CEO is a great spokseman.. and does a good job of explaining the project and what improvements are needed in relation to the current state of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. If the team can live up to their goals, I think it will have a very lucrative future.

 

 

Maybe there will be a better altcoin, no one really knows it's all speculative at this point, but regardless I believe many of these top coins will make a nice return during the next bull run over the next few years. Personally, I'm not missing out on a ~15x opportunity over such a short term

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Can someone explain to me how huge corporate altcoin mining factories are going to further mankind, because I don't get it.

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Can someone explain to me how huge corporate altcoin mining factories are going to further mankind, because I don't get it.

 

Huge altcoin mining factories are definitely not going to further mankind, in fact PoW mining is pretty harmful for the environment in general.  But you can't look at it in a vacuum and you have to consider the economic harm caused by the incompetence, corruption, and inefficiency of the market sectors cryptocurrencies aim to replace:

-Banks are required for typical people to safely store wealth, then the banks gamble with it and aren't held responsible

-Credit card companies are required for making easy transactions now that online commerce is so much more common and efficient

-World government mints often abuse their position and causing financial meltdowns due to currency debasement, overprinting of fiat

 

Think of all the harm these things cause, look at the hyper inflation situation in Venezuela right now for example.  Those people are suffering due to corruption.  With decentralized cryptocurrencies (specifically decentralized ones only, this is why I am so against centralized ones, even if it's "temporary"), this is impossible because no one individual controls the network protocol that defines the currency - everyone has to agree to hyperinflate, and they won't because it will hurt each individual, so it won't happen.  This only happens in situations where centralization lets a few corrupt individuals take advantage of the situation.

 

As we butt against Moore's Law, the situation of individual companies having a large share of the PoW through ASIC manufacturing first-mover advantages will disappear as everyone has more of a shot, and the economics will change

 

 

Furthermore, as Bitcoin moves to Lightning Network, this adds another layer of pressure against PoW mining since there is greater economic incentive to instead host LN nodes which are a quasi-PoW system without much economic harm since there is no incentive to waste clock cycles for crashing hashes, there is only an incentive to keep the node online and to never execute buggy behavior which could make the node sacrifices its locked up LN node funds

 

Quite frankly the situation of mining factories is largely influenced, though not necessarily completely caused, by artificially cheap energy sold by countries and regions which aren't including future external climate change related costs into the costs of the energy they sell to miners.  As energy costs increase, mining profits decrease which disincentivizes mining.  A carbon tax implemented everywhere would solve this

 

tl;dr

PoW mining farms are an environmental issue, but the benefits far outweigh the costs when you consider the market sectors cryptocurrency aims to make completely obsolete through secure automation and through the lack of trust required to be placed into individuals who can potentially be or become corrupt actors at any point, and the environmental costs of PoW mining right now is caused by overly cheap electricity because world government have not implemented sufficiently strict carbon taxes

 

If anyone wants to disagree that's fine, feel free to, but most people disagree without good reasons because they are merely skeptical, which isn't a good idea.  This really is revolutionary and very important.

Edited by Zeffolia
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Think of all the harm these things cause, look at the hyper inflation situation in Venezuela right now for example. Those people are suffering due to corruption. With decentralized cryptocurrencies (specifically decentralized ones only, this is why I am so against centralized ones, even if it's "temporary"), this is impossible because no one individual controls the network protocol that defines the currency - everyone has to agree to hyperinflate, and they won't because it will hurt each individual, so it won't happen.

 

So, err, the value of Bitcoin can go up, what 10000, 1000000 times?, but it can't drop the same? On what do you base this assumption?

 

Also you don't think the governments wouldn't actually be able to manipulate the value if needed? Better check who ultimately controls the infra to run all the transactions..

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Think of all the harm these things cause, look at the hyper inflation situation in Venezuela right now for example. Those people are suffering due to corruption. With decentralized cryptocurrencies (specifically decentralized ones only, this is why I am so against centralized ones, even if it's "temporary"), this is impossible because no one individual controls the network protocol that defines the currency - everyone has to agree to hyperinflate, and they won't because it will hurt each individual, so it won't happen.

So, err, the value of Bitcoin can go up, what 10000, 1000000 times?, but it can't drop the same? On what do you base this assumption?

 

Also you don't think the governments wouldn't actually be able to manipulate the value if needed? Better check who ultimately controls the infra to run all the transactions..

 

 

What?  Currency debasement based inflation has nothing to do with the value of the currency.  Sure the price can go down, but nobody can ever print more Bitcoins.

 

With centralized currencies, if you own 0.001% of the world supply, that's not guaranteed forever.  You might own 0.0005% if they decided to print more.  With Bitcoin, if you own 0.001% of the world supply, you own that much forever.  It's a stable store of wealth.

 

It doesn't matter who owns the infra to perform the transactions, that doesn't mean they can manipulate the supply.  If you can connect to the internet at all you can safely perform Bitcoin transactions without tampering.  You're exposing a fundamental misunderstanding about how the technology works.

 

Also you're building hypothetical situations that stress test Bitcoin far more than they stress test fiat currencies.  Sure, governments can go rogue and destroy the internet so you can't use Bitcoin.  But that goes for anything.  They can just nuke us all then any discussion on any economic topics is made irrelevant, but in a normal context this is irrelevant. 

 

Most people use the currency of their country or group of countries.  That's a single point of weakness in the economic system of a country.  Using a decentralized worldwide currency is safer, especially for people in the third world who can't rely on their governments at all.  Giving them access to the world economy is extremely important to help them ascend above corruption in their local governments.

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Think of all the harm these things cause, look at the hyper inflation situation in Venezuela right now for example. Those people are suffering due to corruption. With decentralized cryptocurrencies (specifically decentralized ones only, this is why I am so against centralized ones, even if it's "temporary"), this is impossible because no one individual controls the network protocol that defines the currency - everyone has to agree to hyperinflate, and they won't because it will hurt each individual, so it won't happen.

So, err, the value of Bitcoin can go up, what 10000, 1000000 times?, but it can't drop the same? On what do you base this assumption?

 

Also you don't think the governments wouldn't actually be able to manipulate the value if needed? Better check who ultimately controls the infra to run all the transactions..

What? Currency debasement based inflation has nothing to do with the value of the currency. Sure the price can go down, but nobody can ever print more Bitcoins.

 

With centralized currencies, if you own 0.001% of the world supply, that's not guaranteed forever. You might own 0.0005% if they decided to print more. With Bitcoin, if you own 0.001% of the world supply, you own that much forever. It's a stable store of wealth.

 

It doesn't matter who owns the infra to perform the transactions, that doesn't mean they can manipulate the supply. If you can connect to the internet at all you can safely perform Bitcoin transactions without tampering. You're exposing a fundamental misunderstanding about how the technology works.

 

Also you're building hypothetical situations that stress test Bitcoin far more than they stress test fiat currencies. Sure, governments can go rogue and destroy the internet so you can't use Bitcoin. But that goes for anything. They can just nuke us all then any discussion on any economic topics is made irrelevant, but in a normal context this is irrelevant.

 

Most people use the currency of their country or group of countries. That's a single point of weakness in the economic system of a country. Using a decentralized worldwide currency is safer, especially for people in the third world who can't rely on their governments at all. Giving them access to the world economy is extremely important to help them ascend above corruption in their local governments.

I don't see why the value wouldn't be able to drop to like 0.001% of the current value if there is a massive global panic to sell the coins? If it can happen with stock markets why would it not be able to happen with a cryptocurrency in where the value is also speculative?

 

What I meant by the infra comment was not tampering, but for example influence through throttling or completely cutting off the connections needed for Bitcoin transactions in the certain areas, companies, banks, individuals or connections to particular outside instances. There are so many ways to fuck with the people using bitcoins if you control the infra.

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I don't see why the value wouldn't be able to drop to like 0.001% of the current value if there is a massive global panic to sell the coins? If it can happen with stock markets why would it not be able to happen with a cryptocurrency in where the value is also speculative?

 

What I meant by the infra comment was not tampering, but for example influence through throttling or completely cutting off the connections needed for Bitcoin transactions in the certain areas, companies, banks, individuals or connections to particular outside instances. There are so many ways to fuck with the people using bitcoins if you control the infra.

 

 

This can be said of any asset, I never said it can't happen.  I think you're confusing two topics together: crash vs. intentional currency debasement.  Governments printing tons of money to pay off debts devalues existing currency by increase the supply.  Crashes are caused by decreases in demand, they are different issues.  Finite cryptocurrencies with sufficient decentralization are fully resistant to currency debasement i.e. crashes in value due to increases in supply.  They're not immune to crashes in value due to decrease in demand though, and nothing is or ever will be because that doesn't even make sense

 

And yes, governments could stop cryptocurrency by completely shutting down the internet, but the same can be said of online banking, PayPal, credit cards, etc. if their respective networks are shut down

 

Also please be aware of the resiliency of Bitcoin transactions.  A Bitcoin transaction is merely a set of bytes containing a description of (among other more technical implementation details) the Bitcoin addresses to move Bitcoin to and from, and the quantities, along with a digital signature verifying that the address the Bitcoins are being moved was the person who generated this signed transaction.  Once this happens, all you have to do is transmit it to a single Bitcoin node connected to the internet.  If for instance a modestly sized country tried to cut off its citizens from the internet and fully succeeded, this wouldn't have a noticeable affect on the value of Bitcoin, and citizens in that country also would not lose their wealth because they could always travel to another country to access the internet and transfer Bitcoins, or they could transfer them in other ways:

 

-By mail with a piece of paper

-Through a satellite dish pointing to a Bitcoin full node satellite in space

-Through a text message

-Telephone call where they literally dictate the bytes of the transaction

 

All you have to do is transmit the information of the signed Bitcoin transaction, it literally doesn't even require the internet, and all of these transmission methods are fully secure, no harm can come if someone sees it i.e. they can't steal the Bitcoins.  Details like this are often not known and part of the reason people are both skeptical and unaware of how amazing this technology is.  I could transmit Bitcoins to you right now by copying and pasting in an ASCII representation of the hexadecimal representation of a raw Bitcoin transaction moving some of my Bitcoins to one of your Bitcoin addresses, and you could just copy and paste it, perform proper modifications, and transmit it to the any Bitcoin node at your convenience, then receive them, assuming I haven't transferred them somewhere else first, but you can verify all of this.

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