Releasing Vinyl, CD, or Tape

[ManjuShri]

lol

[oscillik]

lol

[auxien]

lol

[hello spiral]

lol

[ignatius]

lol

[joshuatxuk]

lol

 

////

 

if you do tapes do like runs of 25-35 instead of 50 for your first release and send out 5 or so to cassette blogs for reviews

 

you can also save money by home-dubbing them yourself and scoring norelco cases from old used tapes - never hurts to check CL for stereo dual decks to dub with. sometimes churches or other people sell blank tapes in big lots. it was easier to score that stuff in the past but you never know. you can then do the j-cards and/or by stickers for the tape shells as labels. or you can use these guys: https://stumptownprinters.com

 

haven't ever used NAC but iirc the turnaround time is increasing. duplication.ca is good though.

[ganus]

if you do tapes do like runs of 25-35 instead of 50 for your first release and send out 5 or so to cassette blogs for reviews

 

Fuck, good point, that is solid. I am gonna take your advice.

[joshuatxuk]

 

if you do tapes do like runs of 25-35 instead of 50 for your first release and send out 5 or so to cassette blogs for reviews

Fuck, good point, that is solid. I am gonna take your advice.

 

 

Yeah I've learned the hard way myself, got some old stock around myself. Only tape I sold out of so far was a run of like 20. I've also sold a handful tapes via consignment at local record stores.

 

If you have a small but reliable fan base pre-sale options works too - you can do a run based on orders then add a reasonable number more and cap your run of tapes that way. Never tried it but seems like a good idea.

 

Also if you run a label it's a good idea to split up the run with the artist. The artist can then sell their batch of tapes at gigs or on their own bandcamp. Helps with distro and can be a easier way to split sales.

 

http://cassettegods.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-to-put-out-taped-cassette.html

[purlieu]

 

Also, it does matter if they cannot play the format of tape, because otherwise tape gives you nothing.  It's not physically or aesthetically pleasing, you cannot admire the artwork or craftsmanship as you can with a CD or Vinyl.  

 

Ha, try telling that to the people who like tapes. I've had discussions with people who absolutely love everything about tapes. And it's not just hipsters, these are genuine music fans who are genuinely passionate about the music they listen to and the format it's on. The latest telepath album was released on cassette and CD, the 300 tapes sold out in a few hours, a couple of weeks on the CDs aren't close to selling out. For some people, tapes are essential and hugely collectable.

 

I've done quite a few tape releases lately, largely because I'm struggling to find non-ambient labels who're interested in putting out music on CD, and none of my recent releases have been particularly ambient. That said...

 

CDs are dead tbh 

 

I can only speak for the UK, but in terms of nationwide sales, 2016 was the first year that album downloads overtook CD album sales. Just shy of 50 million CDs were sold in the UK in 2016, with around 5 million vinyl albums. CD as a format isn't dead at all, it's still the leading physical format by a very, very long stretch. It's just for certain types of music, a lot of which are covered here, it isn't popular these days, for a number of reasons. That said, there are still hundreds of CD- and CDr-only labels releasing electronic / experimental stuff, so it's not dead at all.

 

My advice would be doing some research into the formats used by artists and labels releasing similar stuff to yours, and what your existing fanbase, friends and family would listen to. I usually end up making a personal copy of my own albums on Kunaki, so I have a nice looking CDr version for the shelf (shame about the jewel case of course), because I get far more interest and sales releasing on tape.

[patternoverlap]

Was there ANY return on investment at all?

 

From what I've seen, if you are thinking in terms like this then just don't. Aside from vinyl or tape releases from legacy artists or very well known entities (video game soundtracks, reissues, etc) , you're lucky if you sell more than 30 physical copies. It's a labor of love at this point, unless you're a very rare talent that has caught people's attention at the right time.

 

[joshuatxuk]

 

 

Also, it does matter if they cannot play the format of tape, because otherwise tape gives you nothing.  It's not physically or aesthetically pleasing, you cannot admire the artwork or craftsmanship as you can with a CD or Vinyl.  

 

Ha, try telling that to the people who like tapes. I've had discussions with people who absolutely love everything about tapes. And it's not just hipsters, these are genuine music fans who are genuinely passionate about the music they listen to and the format it's on. The latest telepath album was released on cassette and CD, the 300 tapes sold out in a few hours, a couple of weeks on the CDs aren't close to selling out. For some people, tapes are essential and hugely collectable.

 

I've done quite a few tape releases lately, largely because I'm struggling to find non-ambient labels who're interested in putting out music on CD, and none of my recent releases have been particularly ambient. That said...

 

 

One of the appeals of tape is that you can just send it with a digital download. In fact some labels get away with shitty dubs because people who care enough can re-record it. There are some labels who do tape ONLY i.e. no bandcamp d/l or digital option elsewhere. Was more common in the past too - some 'big' cult following tapes like Eccojams never had a digital release or even digital master copy.

 

People who see the fad of tapes from the outside often aren't aware that there was a perpetual underground tape label scene for years and years before the trend. Even now it's a very, very diverse demographic - some cassette fans only buy (needlessly imo) indie rock and major label releases for the novelty factor, some tape fans on the other hand scoff at Cassette Store Day (CSD) and people shelling out money for Metallica and Guardians of the Galaxy OST on tape. Some tape fans have been following the same labels for 5-10+ years and others just started recently. Tape itself is a pretty versatile and unpredictable format, which is appealing.

[purlieu]

People who see the fad of tapes from the outside often aren't aware that there was a perpetual underground tape label scene for years and years before the trend. Even now it's a very, very diverse demographic - some cassette fans only buy (needlessly imo) indie rock and major label releases for the novelty factor, some tape fans on the other hand scoff at Cassette Store Day (CSD) and people shelling out money for Metallica and Guardians of the Galaxy OST on tape. Some tape fans have been following the same labels for 5-10+ years and others just started recently. Tape itself is a pretty versatile and unpredictable format, which is appealing.

 

Indeed. It was around the turn of the decade that I started really getting into tapes, and there were a lot of incredible labels around at that time who put out a huge range of really amazing music. A lot of those labels had been around for a few years, or were run by people who'd released on other tape labels for quite a while. Around five years ago the format started getting a bit more attention, and sadly vaporwave seemed to fuck things up with absurdly overpriced tapes in really limited runs, which really just served to push the prices up in general. Coupled with a lot of labels being American and US postal prices rocketing, it means tapes often cost as much as, if not more than, CDs these days, which takes away one of the main reasons the format lasted in the underground after it disappeared from the mainstream: tapes were really cheap.

[TubularCorporation]

It's a labor of love at this point, unless you're a very rare talent that has caught people's attention at the right time or have the wealth/connections to buy visibility.

 

 

 

 

FTFY

 

Not that talent isn't a factor, of course, but between a really talented artist without any kind of support network and an artist of average talent who already has the resources to not have a day job, self fund tours an releases, hire a manager, etc. then, welll...

 

[thawkins]

I have been involved with putting out CDs (both DIY and "official" release), a tape release and a vinyl with my band. Some of my electronic stuff is also out on tape. I would say it all fits neatly to this hobbyist category where music is still unbelievably far from being a real career but on the other hand the material was good enough to us to put out as a physical thing and we did get some fledgling national recognition for our music (read: friends who worked in radio in a country with pop around 1.3 million).

 

CDs for me personally are pretty meh, although historically the medium where I have bought the most music. I have become environmentally and materially pretty conscious about buying stuff, and - because for me CDs have become a use-once thing where I just rip them into my computer and never touch the jewel case again - I kind of loathe their existence. I feel that because we have developed way better and more reliable means of data transfer and storage, we should ditch the technology. However I do understand that CDs are also pretty much the easiest thing to DIY release and to have some thing physical that you can sell. Even financially, the times I have spent evenings burning CDs and folding paper "jewel cases", I have always easily recouped the investment just by selling the things for the price of a beer after we played a concert. I like supporting great artists directly so I always try to either buy a t shirt or something from the merch stand after the show. I would definitely make small batches of DIY or cheap made-to-order releases to either give away or sell (with bundled download codes of course) if I had a regular live act going.

 

Tapes & vinyl are both nice to listen to, and I think I definitely value tape over CD. I do not have a vinyl player and that same anti-materialism keeps me from getting into the hobby still, but last vacation I did spend some time going through my meager tape collection, which was a really nice and soothing experience. I would definitely release tapes if it did not cost too much to do a run of 30 or something. Releasing vinyl I find more difficult to justify, I think mainly because I feel that it should be reserved for really special material.

 

This vinyl revival has sometimes just left me thinking that vinyl has turned into some kind of status symbol or "quality booster" that is often used by moneyed hacks to trick people into listening to their mediocre stuff on vinyl and think it's gold. I reflexively try to avoid even falling close to that category - I would rather prefer that people go from "wow check out this music" to "oh nice he also has a vinyl" than "oh nice a new vinyl is out, look at all the analog buzzwords in this press release, got to have it" to "wow it sounds good too".

 

Maybe I am jaded because I come from a scene where every new vinyl release is instantly heralded as a second coming and the hipstergeist is so strong that booing this is political suicide.

[perunamuusi]

Compact Discs lol

[purlieu]

because for me CDs have become a use-once thing where I just rip them into my computer and never touch the jewel case again - I kind of loathe their existence.

I never understood this kind of thing, I see it a lot. If I was going to to do that, I'd buy the digital, because it's cheaper and has no additional environmental effect.

 

I had to stick to digital a few years ago, when my CDs were boxed up on the other side of the country, and it changed my listening habits for the worse (I almost felt like I'd rediscovered music when I got them all back again), so I buy CDs because I listen to them. But if I was just ripping to the computer then I'd given them up and sell the whole lot off immediately. I kind of wish I could sometimes.

[thawkins]

 

because for me CDs have become a use-once thing where I just rip them into my computer and never touch the jewel case again - I kind of loathe their existence.

I never understood this kind of thing, I see it a lot. If I was going to to do that, I'd buy the digital, because it's cheaper and has no additional environmental effect.

 

I had to stick to digital a few years ago, when my CDs were boxed up on the other side of the country, and it changed my listening habits for the worse (I almost felt like I'd rediscovered music when I got them all back again), so I buy CDs because I listen to them. But if I was just ripping to the computer then I'd given them up and sell the whole lot off immediately. I kind of wish I could sometimes.

 

 

I did the bulk of my CD buying when offering digital purchases was not so popular, and my country was too small and useless for Amazon or iTunes to give a damn. And some of the CDs were bought off the artists directly to show support.

My CDs are on the other side of the world right now and I have not actually owned a stand-alone CD player in more than 10 years, so playing one would involve the computer anyways.

 

I think I get your point about listening habits being different with physical media. I have consciously tried changing my listening habits so that I pick an album and I listen to the whole thing in one go. When I am not listening to albums, I try to find good mixes or live sets. I think the only time I listen to random songs is when I have my phone on shuffle. I think my main issue is that I often am focused on some computer screen or another activity while listening to music, so it's quite rare that I just sit and listen.

[purlieu]

I did the bulk of my CD buying when offering digital purchases was not so popular, and my country was too small and useless for Amazon or iTunes to give a damn. And some of the CDs were bought off the artists directly to show support.

 

 

Yeah, fair enough. I do see it a lot still these days though, and it totally confuses me. 

 

The problem I had with digital was partly the skipping through tracks issue - it's far too easy - but also simply browsing. I so often pick out stuff I haven't listened to in ages simply by looking at my shelves and letting something grab my eye. That never worked when scrolling through my stuff on a screen. 

 

There's a ton of other stuff - cover, liner notes, physical tangible object - that enhance the experience when I have an actual copy, but I could learn to live without those I think. But selecting an album and listening to it fully just never really works for me when I only have a digital version. Plus I'd have to buy new hardware as I like to listen to music in different rooms and such, and I haven't anywhere near the data storage for all the music I want. As I say, in terms of cost, physical space, and environmental impact, I'd love to go digital-only. I manage to deal with the first and last of those by mostly buying second hand.

[lyst]

I have been involved with putting out CDs (both DIY and "official" release), a tape release and a vinyl with my band. Some of my electronic stuff is also out on tape. I would say it all fits neatly to this hobbyist category where music is still unbelievably far from being a real career but on the other hand the material was good enough to us to put out as a physical thing and we did get some fledgling national recognition for our music (read: friends who worked in radio in a country with pop around 1.3 million).

 

CDs for me personally are pretty meh, although historically the medium where I have bought the most music. I have become environmentally and materially pretty conscious about buying stuff, and - because for me CDs have become a use-once thing where I just rip them into my computer and never touch the jewel case again - I kind of loathe their existence. I feel that because we have developed way better and more reliable means of data transfer and storage, we should ditch the technology. However I do understand that CDs are also pretty much the easiest thing to DIY release and to have some thing physical that you can sell. Even financially, the times I have spent evenings burning CDs and folding paper "jewel cases", I have always easily recouped the investment just by selling the things for the price of a beer after we played a concert. I like supporting great artists directly so I always try to either buy a t shirt or something from the merch stand after the show. I would definitely make small batches of DIY or cheap made-to-order releases to either give away or sell (with bundled download codes of course) if I had a regular live act going.

 

Tapes & vinyl are both nice to listen to, and I think I definitely value tape over CD. I do not have a vinyl player and that same anti-materialism keeps me from getting into the hobby still, but last vacation I did spend some time going through my meager tape collection, which was a really nice and soothing experience. I would definitely release tapes if it did not cost too much to do a run of 30 or something. Releasing vinyl I find more difficult to justify, I think mainly because I feel that it should be reserved for really special material.

 

This vinyl revival has sometimes just left me thinking that vinyl has turned into some kind of status symbol or "quality booster" that is often used by moneyed hacks to trick people into listening to their mediocre stuff on vinyl and think it's gold. I reflexively try to avoid even falling close to that category - I would rather prefer that people go from "wow check out this music" to "oh nice he also has a vinyl" than "oh nice a new vinyl is out, look at all the analog buzzwords in this press release, got to have it" to "wow it sounds good too".

 

Maybe I am jaded because I come from a scene where every new vinyl release is instantly heralded as a second coming and the hipstergeist is so strong that booing this is political suicide.

 

Some great stuff here, thanks.

 

Agree on the Vinyl tip, it's a lot about materialism.  I buy vinyl to frame and hang it up on the wall in my man-cave, and of course to support the artist.  But I also buy CDs and digital.  The CDs I tend not to open up anymore, might just make some kind of display of my favorite ones.  So the reality is I only really listen to digital, whether or not I buy a physical copy or not.  Funny how that works out. 

 

It is all for the love of it.  I knew that before posting.  Return on investment is usually nil.  I know guys that release a dickload of music and it's just drinking money for them.

 

There's something romantic about releasing physicals though.  That High Fidelity vibe, where he was always the listener and the critic but finally put something out there in the music world.  It was revelation.  Releasing purely digital everyone and their mother can do these days (and it seems like they are), but releasing some high quality physical product is a different story.

 

I was debating going with "Kunaki", but i realized I have gotten a CD from them before from another artist.  Shit was kind of ghetto looking, unprofessional...  Not probably worth it in the end.

 

Edit: this looks pretty legit and cheap for digipaks- https://www.easydisc.net/digipaks/

[purlieu]

All my own Kunaki CDs look and sound great. Obviously they're only CDrs, which some find off-putting, and they're grey tray jewel case with just a double sided insert, so it's all basic and minimal. They do the job though.

[ganus]

Just FYI, make sure you do your research with Easydisk. I had considered their digipacks for my release, but I found a lot of super negative reviews. from orders that never arrived, long delays, less CDs than ordered, and poor response to customer complaints... I dont have personal experience, so dont take it on my word, but it seemed kinda sketch when I looked into it

[Lada Laika]

I don’t listen to CDs but I’ve bought them at shows if there was no vinyl available. I listen to the vinyl I do own whenever possible. And I’ve bought tapes before even though all I have is a crappy boombox, lol. I’ve slowly been buying more digital but if there’s a vinyl option and I’ve got the $ I typically go for it. I love the smell of records, the involvement of the act of flipping and setting the needle. And I love the larger artwork, poring over liner notes, etc.

 

But my bike is also a single speed and I wear flannel and go to art school and work at a coffee shop and make IDM so I’m basically a garbage person

[joshuatxuk]

This vinyl revival has sometimes just left me thinking that vinyl has turned into some kind of status symbol or "quality booster" that is often used by moneyed hacks to trick people into listening to their mediocre stuff on vinyl and think it's gold. I reflexively try to avoid even falling close to that category - I would rather prefer that people go from "wow check out this music" to "oh nice he also has a vinyl" than "oh nice a new vinyl is out, look at all the analog buzzwords in this press release, got to have it" to "wow it sounds good too".

 

Maybe I am jaded because I come from a scene where every new vinyl release is instantly heralded as a second coming and the hipstergeist is so strong that booing this is political suicide.

 

You are not alone in noticing this. It's a real shame but I try to remind myself that crowd is a lot louder with their Instagram accounts, shallow posts, bottomless wallets. The needless reissues at Best Buy sum up how ridiculous it's become. RSD has been controversial because of how much it impacts production turnaround for artists just trying to release normal albums.

 

Plenty of sincere fans of vinyl out there though and good or bad the formats are staying alive.

[auxien]

^agreed with both of you.

 

But at the end of the day, I'm always glad when people are buying music, no matter the format. That makes me feel happy.

[Lada Laika]

 

This vinyl revival has sometimes just left me thinking that vinyl has turned into some kind of status symbol or "quality booster" that is often used by moneyed hacks to trick people into listening to their mediocre stuff on vinyl and think it's gold. I reflexively try to avoid even falling close to that category - I would rather prefer that people go from "wow check out this music" to "oh nice he also has a vinyl" than "oh nice a new vinyl is out, look at all the analog buzzwords in this press release, got to have it" to "wow it sounds good too".

 

Maybe I am jaded because I come from a scene where every new vinyl release is instantly heralded as a second coming and the hipstergeist is so strong that booing this is political suicide.

You are not alone in noticing this. It's a real shame but I try to remind myself that crowd is a lot louder with their Instagram accounts, shallow posts, bottomless wallets. The needless reissues at Best Buy sum up how ridiculous it's become. RSD has been controversial because of how much it impacts production turnaround for artists just trying to release normal albums.

 

Plenty of sincere fans of vinyl out there though and good or bad the formats are staying alive.

RSD is ass for the simple fact that I could go to my local store the day after and still get the Mcluskyism reissue

 

fuck all ya’ll selling out the Clueless soundtrack instead