Braintree Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Wow, straw man argument incoming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I understand you think my argument isn't a good one, but it's in no way a straw man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 You're changing the focus of the subject onto me instead of addressing the facts. That is by definition a straw man argument. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/ambiguity/straw-man/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mughnus Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) I think he articulated it fairly well. How is it Elon Musks' responsibility to solve homelessness and world hunger any more than it is your own responsibility. Not a strawman. Edited February 11, 2018 by Bulk VanderHooj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 As for moving back to the original subject: Perhaps we should use those seemingly limitless resources of money to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake in society. Maybe everyone should get fed and everyone should have shelter. Throwing a car into space isn't exactly progress to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mughnus Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) It wasn't (and isn't) about throwing a car into space. Pretty sure food/shelter is what your government is for, not private citizens? Edited February 11, 2018 by Bulk VanderHooj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I think he articulated it fairly well. How is it Elon Musks' responsibility to solve homelessness and world hunger any more than it is your own responsibility. Not a strawman. Because he has a billion dollars and I don't. If you're trying to equate my position in a capitalist society equal to his as far as giving power, then you're sorely out of touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mughnus Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) Elon donates 10s of millions of dollars, just not to food/shelter/water. It just seems like a weird comment that by virtue of his fortune he is suddenly responsible for fixing food and homelessness like that's anything to do with him. There are very real and very useful applications for the stuff spaceX, tesla etc is researching (and doing) - to chalk it up to throwing a car into space is disingenuous. Edited February 11, 2018 by Bulk VanderHooj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 My point is that it's no measure of progress because we haven't even solved the simplest of problems humanity creates for itself. /lastpost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mughnus Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Well, now that's a fair statement that is much different than what you said before. You should have said that to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 You're changing the focus of the subject onto me instead of addressing the facts. That is by definition a straw man argument. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/ambiguity/straw-man/ The link you posted doesn't support what you're saying at all. Maybe it could be weakly called an ad hominem argument but it's not a straw man, that's a different fallacy entirely. I didn't misrepresent what you were saying and attack a misrepresentation, which is what a straw man is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Perhaps we should use those seemingly limitless resources of money to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake in society. He earned that money by participating in the capitalist process that creates those problems in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Perhaps we should use those seemingly limitless resources of money to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake in society. He earned that money by participating in the capitalist process that creates those problems in the first place Yeah, helping with the creation of PayPal to undercut incumbent payment processors and allow anyone to be a seller online causes capitalist problems. Helping with the creation of a new era where electric cars are soon going to become dominant is causing all sorts of capitalist problems. Making space flight cheaper by creating reusable rockets instead of throwaway ones makes capitalist problems worse The naivete in this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hello spiral Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Didn't paypal help out with stopping payment towards sources that those in control deemed unworthy/a threat or something equally odious and totalitarian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Perhaps we should use those seemingly limitless resources of money to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake in society. He earned that money by participating in the capitalist process that creates those problems in the first place Yeah, helping with the creation of PayPal to undercut incumbent payment processors and allow anyone to be a seller online causes capitalist problems. Helping with the creation of a new era where electric cars are soon going to become dominant is causing all sorts of capitalist problems. Making space flight cheaper by creating reusable rockets instead of throwaway ones makes capitalist problems worse The naivete in this thread... "What he made had some positive impact which means it had no negative impact at all" Also I'm not talking about the end results, I'm talking about the means used to achieve them Edited February 12, 2018 by span Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Perhaps we should use those seemingly limitless resources of money to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake in society. He earned that money by participating in the capitalist process that creates those problems in the first place Yeah, helping with the creation of PayPal to undercut incumbent payment processors and allow anyone to be a seller online causes capitalist problems. Helping with the creation of a new era where electric cars are soon going to become dominant is causing all sorts of capitalist problems. Making space flight cheaper by creating reusable rockets instead of throwaway ones makes capitalist problems worse The naivete in this thread... "What he made had some positive impact which means it had no negative impact at all" Also I'm not talking about the end results, I'm talking about the means used to achieve them What means used to achieve them? You have to list them or your claims are worthless Didn't paypal help out with stopping payment towards sources that those in control deemed unworthy/a threat or something equally odious and totalitarian? Probably - PayPal is indeed pretty shit in a lot of areas and it's not a perfect solution like crypto is. But it's better to have credit cards + PayPal than just credit cards. It was revolutionary for its time and extremely disruptive, helping a lot of online small business owners to actually have a chance as opposed to having literally no practical way to conduct their business at all. Undoubtedly a net gain for society at the time despite it being shit now in comparison to alternatives. Edited February 12, 2018 by Zeffolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Perhaps we should use those seemingly limitless resources of money to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake in society. He earned that money by participating in the capitalist process that creates those problems in the first place Yeah, helping with the creation of PayPal to undercut incumbent payment processors and allow anyone to be a seller online causes capitalist problems. Helping with the creation of a new era where electric cars are soon going to become dominant is causing all sorts of capitalist problems. Making space flight cheaper by creating reusable rockets instead of throwaway ones makes capitalist problems worse The naivete in this thread... "What he made had some positive impact which means it had no negative impact at all" Also I'm not talking about the end results, I'm talking about the means used to achieve them What means used to achieve them? You have to list them or your claims are worthless I've no specific issues with Elon in particular, I was just replying to Braintree's point about Elon using his money for 'good', as in, using it to feed the homeless and make sure everyone gets food and whatever. Just pointing that you can't solve this system's problems from within the system. I'm too tired and ignorant to elaborate on this, but you can't just profit from the current system, create or enable (directly or indirectly) those problems Braintree mentions, then throw money at them to somehow solve them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 it's not a perfect solution like crypto is what is crypto the solution to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 it's the space age for people who like avocado toast, saying "yassss", watching stranger things, and posting on twitter that they value their relationships with dogs over their human relationships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'm with Braintree, go socialism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 it's not a perfect solution like crypto is what is crypto the solution to? To all currency, monetary policy, wealth management, and anonymous payment related problems. Before we needed third party intermediaries to hold our money in between a transaction - now we can just give money directly to the person even if we don't know who they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Here we go again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidrodi Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Last time I checked having 2 electric vehicle companies and a solar panel company was beneficial for humanity and that's good enough for me and It would be just as good under any other economical system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Last time I checked having 2 electric vehicle companies and a solar panel company was beneficial for humanity and that's good enough for me and It would be just as good under any other economical system.iunno man imo is p shitty, why doesn't he give me all his money instead of investing in shit? p shitty imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidrodi Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Last time I checked having 2 electric vehicle companies and a solar panel company was beneficial for humanity and that's good enough for me and It would be just as good under any other economical system.iunno man imo is p shitty, why doesn't he give me all his money instead of investing in shit? p shitty imho i kno man, heck him tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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