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How does the World view Israel these days?


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73 replies to this topic

#1 roasty

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:29 AM

Israel usually thinks of itself as the world, look at our media, it's always about " me me me". Well yes there are other countries on earth, and they don't always see eye to eye with our vision of ourselves. 
 
So WATMM, a lot of you are from everywhere else, what say you? How full of ourselves are we? Do we appear to be the gun toting, race war baiting, waterboarding, overweight, loudmouths that out media portrays us to be? 
 
I'm really curious about your opinions, so much of the media is Israel focused, a lot of global news and issues get lost in the noise. 


#2 MIXL2

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:34 AM

get ragnar up in this thread, NOW

#3 doublename

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:51 AM

The final battleground.



#4 Ragnar

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:02 AM

get ragnar up in this thread, NOW

 

I generally like Jewish people



#5 roasty

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:26 AM

awaits delet

 


Edited by roasty, 16 May 2018 - 07:27 AM.


#6 Ragnar

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:33 AM

literally every Jewish person I've met irl has been awesome. sorry guys



#7 joshuatx

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:15 AM

It parallels America a lot, this overwrought right-wing government and loud fanatical sentiment derailing so much progress. I can sympathize with the Israeli who has to carry the burden of their country's actions on the shoulders, much like an American abroad. As a nation itself it's still an admirable county. I think it was a much more acceptable sentiment to support Israel by default in the past but we've been way past that point since the early 00s. It's unacceptable for the West to continue blindly supporting them as they do now. It's criminal that 60+ civilians were killed in protests and talking heads in the US not just brushed it aside but even excused it. 

 

While I am not a Israeli apologist these days, and I feel like I have been in the past, I do support their existence and still struggle with the fact that it's a lovely and resilient county with great people and a diverse population. The later fact is something of an elephant in the room for many of the more extreme and/or casual supporters of the country - people who are so anti-Palestinian and pro-Israel or ignorant of the complicated and nuanced aspects of Israeli history including the fact that they've had secular leaders, socialist governments, and many leaders who were strong believers in a two-state solution. I can assure the average American has no idea that Israel Arab citizens exist. Most have no idea how restricted the populations of Gaza and the West Bank are via sanctions, curfews, policing, etc. The days before settlements run amok and an obscene right-wing evangelical lobby in the US seem like ages ago: you literally cannot criticize Israel in any way without becoming a political pariah. 

 

I'm not really sure when it all turned around but I suppose the Lebanon Invasion is when Israel shifted from being an underdog to a increasingly oppressive entity. I am a big military history buff, and the IDF is an incredibly fascinating army historically, but that includes less glamorous incidents. Seeing Waltz_with_Bashir was a turning point for me in that regard. 


Edited by joshuatx, 16 May 2018 - 08:18 AM.


#8 bendish

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:18 AM

the question is only asked cause we know the answer already

1948 was a turning point for me

Edited by bendish, 16 May 2018 - 08:21 AM.


#9 Ragnar

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:38 AM

It parallels America a lot, this overwrought right-wing government and loud fanatical sentiment derailing so much progress. I can sympathize with the Israeli who has to carry the burden of their country's actions on the shoulders, much like an American abroad. As a nation itself it's still an admirable county. I think it was a much more acceptable sentiment to support Israel by default in the past but we've been way past that point since the early 00s. It's unacceptable for the West to continue blindly supporting them as they do now. It's criminal that 60+ civilians were killed in protests and talking heads in the US not just brushed it aside but even excused it. 

 

While I am not a Israeli apologist these days, and I feel like I have been in the past, I do support their existence and still struggle with the fact that it's a lovely and resilient county with great people and a diverse population. The later fact is something of an elephant in the room for many of the more extreme and/or casual supporters of the country - people who are so anti-Palestinian and pro-Israel or ignorant of the complicated and nuanced aspects of Israeli history including the fact that they've had secular leaders, socialist governments, and many leaders who were strong believers in a two-state solution. I can assure the average American has no idea that Israel Arab citizens exist. Most have no idea how restricted the populations of Gaza and the West Bank are via sanctions, curfews, policing, etc. The days before settlements run amok and an obscene right-wing evangelical lobby in the US seem like ages ago: you literally cannot criticize Israel in any way without becoming a political pariah. 

 

I'm not really sure when it all turned around but I suppose the Lebanon Invasion is when Israel shifted from being an underdog to a increasingly oppressive entity. I am a big military history buff, and the IDF is an incredibly fascinating army historically, but that includes less glamorous incidents. Seeing Waltz_with_Bashir was a turning point for me in that regard. 

 

see now this is a nuanced post, it's so conflated with the gay frogs and everything tho it turns into an instant clusterfuck, and I don't even want to talk about it anymore. Just pick another random country out of a hat plz



#10 Valknut

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:40 AM



#11 Gocab

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:42 AM

I'm not a big fan of Zionism.

#12 Ragnar

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:52 AM

https://www.randomli.../random-country

 

south korea came up, let's talk about the weird psuedo-shaman politican there and nepotism in corporate world



#13 darreichungsform

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:59 AM

I love Israel and it should be a matter of course that this country exists but I would gladly grant every Israelite a government that at least remotely enables them to live in peace with their neighbours. Their current right-wing militarist ultraconservative government is bad for the peace of the country. By the way Israel is not a state of the Jews. The majority of the country's population is Jewish, that doesn't mean that the country itself is Jewish. It's a secular nation just like the USA is a secular nation and not a christian country. Those ignorant people who think that criticizing Israel is antisemitism are completely wrong. The way the clash between the Muslim minority and the Jewish majority is approached by Israeli government is a desaster



#14 joshuatx

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:10 AM

I love Israel and it should be a matter of course that this country exists but I would gladly grant every Israelite a government that at least remotely enables them to live in peace with their neighbours. Their current right-wing militarist ultraconservative government is bad for the peace of the country. By the way Israel is not a state of the Jews. The majority of the country's population is Jewish, that doesn't mean that the country itself is Jewish. It's a secular nation just like the USA is a secular nation and not a christian country. Those ignorant people who think that criticizing Israel is antisemitism are completely wrong. The way the clash between the Muslim minority and the Jewish majority is approached by Israeli government is a desaster

 

This. I think it's important to note too how the Israel-Arab conflict was nationalism-charged for many decades, lot of people conflate the current conflict to simplified Jewish versus Muslim lines. 



#15 goDel

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:11 AM

It's an apartheid state. Where the Palestinians are basically subhuman slaves that should be locked away when not used. It's pathetic.



#16 RSP

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:15 AM

The morning after the US presidential election an older (I'd say early 60s) Israeli couple came in to where I work.  It was their first trip to the USA ever and they'd arrived an hour earlier.  We'd hardly even finished saying hello to each other when the husband put his hand on my shoulder and said "we understand what it's like to have a government that doesn't represent you."



#17 ambermonk

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:59 AM

I'm largely ignorant on modern geopolitics, but I know enough that the Netanyahu regime and the GOP here in the US have an unbreakable bond halfway across the globe. Basically I have nothing against Israeli citizens, but I abhor how the government treats Palestinians and the fact that our government keeps supplying arms to them. It's much like how MNU treat the Poleepkwa ("Prawns") in District 9.



#18 joshuatx

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:09 AM

 

This is a pretty good primer on the state of things. She's dead on about how much is done to prevent people from having any idea how bad it is for the Palestinians day-to-day and how warped, misleading, and even flat out fictional a lot of struggles are for Israelis in general. 

 

It's an apartheid state.

 

I can only hope there's a breaking point. I'm sure many are ignorant of South African policies got worse and worse after WW2 in it's oppression and segregation. Literally ramped up as the Civil Rights Movement in the US began to achieve success. Yet the late 80s / early 90s are decades past and many probably have no idea it was strongest in the same era as the Berlin Wall falling. 



#19 AJW

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:27 AM

All the Israelis I've known have had awful breath, other than that they're alright. One of them had this party trick where he'd chew right through a champagne glass, it was pretty impressive.

#20 cwmbrancity

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:42 AM

an ex was French Jewish & her grandparents live in Tel Aviv, stayed a few times & loved the places & people, Jerusalem & Haifa were immense, the architecture & bazaars/souks, plus the landscape's soil colours & orchard groves you could explore metaphorically endlessly

 

food & wine were incredible, rarely eaten healthier or better, but my hosts were very discreet when it came to certain discussions & being a guest i didnt want to argue with or provoke a Holocaust survivor & his elderly wife

 

the Geo-political angle is so fucked up doe, whats the old analogy? a Jewish bloke jumps out of a burning building landing on a Palestinian, once you could forgive, but thousands of times? not so much

 

Britain & the US have a lot to answer for, Britain for pre-WWII occupation & general British cuntyness, now the US funds it like a big fkn fort outlooking the entire ME, add nuclear weapons, the Saudis, Iran, Syria, what was Sadam-era Iraq & then IS, is there a more fucked up region on planet earth?

 

Gaza & the West Bank deserve a proper & fully sanctioned UN intervention, but will it ever happen? will it fuck, a global disgrace



#21 whosebrian

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:04 PM

To the victor belong the spoils of the enemy.


Edited by whosebrian, 16 May 2018 - 10:13 PM.


#22 bendish

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:30 PM

suddenly theres a bunch of woke israeli supprters seeing the light...we've gone too far now


Edited by bendish, 16 May 2018 - 11:30 PM.


#23 Ragnar

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:57 AM

https://twitter.com/PhilipEliasoph

 

cool dude-o



#24 Obel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:03 AM

Israel AKA the middle eastern disruption wing of the west



#25 Braintree

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:45 PM

From the view of an American with a limited knowledge of its history, Israel comes off as a high school kid that got his ass kicked in high school and you felt really sorry for him, but his insecurities grew over time, so he became a cop and is getting away with some pretty heinous shit.

 

All the Israelis I've known have had awful breath, other than that they're alright. One of them had this party trick where he'd chew right through a champagne glass, it was pretty impressive.

 

The last meeting I had with an Israeli coworker had me leaning away so I wouldn't get the full brunt of his breath. I'm guessing too much coffee/not enough water. He's also a subtle misogynist, which seems to be par the course for the men I've met from there.