enjoying art from an artist who is less than savory

[Ragnar]

morgan freeman btw

[ascdi]

That’s some good dfw analysis earlier in this thread, nice job.

 

I personally don’t / “can’t” find Louis CK’s comedy funny anymore (to answer a question from earlier in the thread) not because I’m a poser PC dillweed, but (as also, astutely, mentioned earlier in the thread) in some cases it’s not _possible_ to separate the artist from their art. The fulcrum that made Louie’s act work is that he said “bad” things, but in saying them “honestly” (in retrospect: not so honestly) he was doing a service, and this was in some way speaking unspoken truths, etc. The distance between the person he described and the person he seemed to actually be is what made it funny. 

 

But if you recontextualize his shit to be, a guy who is actually a shitbag, but clearly intelligent, simply explaining his foibles and in that way hoping to be redeemed for them, well that is not so funny, because life doesn’t work like that. It’s like a double-twist ending: imo what made him funny was that the Louie in his stories was, we assumed, exaggerated for comic effect. It’s actually not so funny to just literally hear somebody explain all the bad shit they do and think.

 

I think a lot about one of his earlier specials called “Chewed Up”, I think, where like, a majority of the special is him complaining about his wife (whom he eventually divorced — which also formed the bedrock for a few years of his act) in like, an extremely cruel way. I used to like that special because it was uncomfortable and somewhat amazing to see someone be so clearly cruel and unhappy onstage — but I guess I always assumed it was a construction in some way. Like, how can this be his act and then he go home at night?

 

I guess now I know the answer. It worked because he’s a shitbag and didn’t care about hurting other people. It’s like — oh. I thought it was a magic trick, which was the whole source of enjoyment.

[Eggs]

i mean shit man. i still see kramer as the nigger guy

[ascdi]

i mean shit man. i still see kramer as the nigger guy

 

 

e(ggs)xactly

[Candiru]

I dunno, I think his act is still pretty exaggerated compared to some episodes of spontaneous wanking 15 years ago, but I do see where you are coming from at least.

[ignatius]

 

i mean shit man. i still see kramer as the nigger guy

 

 

e(ggs)xactly

 

 

 

had to...

 

[usagi]

what's going on in here

[usagi]

 

 

I almost turned this off it was so fucked but I do like UGK otherwise, more of a "jeeeeeesus christ guys whaddafuck"

 

top 40 material right here.

 

 

this is fuckin hilarious

 

 

I can't stop listening to this now, thanks.

[ignatius]

what's going on in here

 

 

 

all things lead to a south park episode. 

 

srsly though anyone see that chappelle netflix comedy special where he does the bit about the super hero who saves but he rapes?  obviously a long form cosby examination. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by ignatius

[Ragnar]

not saying Kramer's thing was excuseable but I can't imagine being anyone from the cast of Seinfeld. Like even if you think the show's a little shit it was pretty iconic and gonna be like the peak/high point of ur life. People from Mongolia probably know what Seinfeld is

 

like I could understand kramer being a little DISGRUNTLED washed up feeling but yeah not, that word

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ragnar

[ignatius]

not saying Kramer's thing was excuseable but I can't imagine being anyone from the cast of Seinfeld. Like even if you think the show's a little shit it was pretty iconic and gonna be like the peak/high point of ur life. People from Mongolia probably know what Seinfeld is

 

like I could understand kramer being a little DISGRUNTLED washed up feeling but yeah not, that word

 

 

 

wasn't his excuse or the excuse people made for him that he was trying to 'go to a place' in comedy and riff and be edgy or something? because that guy was heckling him and ol' kramer he was striking out at every turn?  what a shit show. i wouldn't worry about michael richards.. i'm sure he still has plenty of that sienfeld money and gets a royalty check or something. 

[jaderpansen]

 

 

 

jaderpansen, on 23 May 2018 - 4:27 PM, said:

seth putnam nazi man but scream well.

Was he though, or would he just claim to be that because most people would find it shocking and upsetting?  Same with that Boyd Rice guy.

 

guess we'll never know, that's part of the magic XP...

 

in other news jon chang has been outing himself as NRA and trump fan lately... oh well, will keep aping DA.

[usagi]

what? Jon Chang from Gridlink and Discordance Axis? wtf

[jaderpansen]

what? Jon Chang from Gridlink and Discordance Axis? wtf

 

https://www.facebook.com/eva05

 

"It’s not the NRA’s job to solve social issues. It’s their job to protect the rights of it’s multi-million members. That’s why we become members. Not to create a strategy for law enforcement."

 

this implies he's actually even a member.

Edited May 25, 2018 by jaderpansen

[auxien]

^I don't know who that guy is or whatever but he just seems like a run-of-the-mill idiot at most, he's not fucking raping or killing people or anything. Slippery slope and all that.

[Blir]

I don't know what's going on in this thread anymore but that Pregnant Pussy song is dope. Why is it so good? 

[Ifeelspace]

Can't listen to Hills West anymore

[joshuatxuk]

I don't know what's going on in this thread anymore but that Pregnant Pussy song is dope. Why is it so good? 

 

b/c it's UGK mane

[joshuatxuk]

 

not saying Kramer's thing was excuseable but I can't imagine being anyone from the cast of Seinfeld. Like even if you think the show's a little shit it was pretty iconic and gonna be like the peak/high point of ur life. People from Mongolia probably know what Seinfeld is

 

like I could understand kramer being a little DISGRUNTLED washed up feeling but yeah not, that word

 

wasn't his excuse or the excuse people made for him that he was trying to 'go to a place' in comedy and riff and be edgy or something? because that guy was heckling him and ol' kramer he was striking out at every turn?  what a shit show. i wouldn't worry about michael richards.. i'm sure he still has plenty of that sienfeld money and gets a royalty check or something. 

 

 

michael richards is truly haunted by it - I sympathize with him in that regard - it was angry and inappropriate but he's not a bigoted asshole - he's kind of the first person to really get the backlash for saying something offensive without a worthy context or excuse - I can assure you plenty of 80s to mid-90s era white comics said racist shit all the time without being called out.

[jaderpansen]

^I don't know who that guy is or whatever but he just seems like a run-of-the-mill idiot at most, he's not fucking raping or killing people or anything. Slippery slope and all that.

 

sure.

 

but believe me, i've seen boycott pleas for less. weirdest SJW shit i've ever come across was probably when our drummer was asked not take off his shirt during a show because of the heat, because that's a male priviledge apparently... sry for derailing, um... AUTISM!

[zaphod]

one thing I’ve always wrestled with in my life is my enjoyment of the art of Michael Richards

[QBLA]

Unsavory

[Ragnar]

 

 

not saying Kramer's thing was excuseable but I can't imagine being anyone from the cast of Seinfeld. Like even if you think the show's a little shit it was pretty iconic and gonna be like the peak/high point of ur life. People from Mongolia probably know what Seinfeld is

 

like I could understand kramer being a little DISGRUNTLED washed up feeling but yeah not, that word

 

wasn't his excuse or the excuse people made for him that he was trying to 'go to a place' in comedy and riff and be edgy or something? because that guy was heckling him and ol' kramer he was striking out at every turn?  what a shit show. i wouldn't worry about michael richards.. i'm sure he still has plenty of that sienfeld money and gets a royalty check or something. 

 

 

michael richards is truly haunted by it - I sympathize with him in that regard - it was angry and inappropriate but he's not a bigoted asshole - he's kind of the first person to really get the backlash for saying something offensive without a worthy context or excuse - I can assure you plenty of 80s to mid-90s era white comics said racist shit all the time without being called out.

 

 

not sure if this is a troll post, first of all blowing up like that is inexcusable, second of all seinfeld royalty checks or whatever but (money probably doesn't make you happy), I would say the most happiness in their lives came from being on the show and having that comraderie and STUF IS HAPPENING constantly

 

all I was arguing is it's probably a /depressing/ situation to make it to such success, and then I said not just Kramer, like everyone on that show afterward, Elaine had some moderate success with one or two sitcoms? But everyone else was like half-baked idea for a series that tanked over and over. Maybe Jerry has some HBO thing I dunno, but it must've felt like "oh great I have this resume of most successful sitcom like in the history of ever, but maybe that didn't actually reflect upon my talent? Or it was the entire cast and some kind of Borg mind-meld that made the show any good and by myself I'm kind of shitcomedian?

 

I guess imagine if Autechre broke up and both guys did a solo act but the 'magic' of Autechre wasn't there

 

but yeah I was just arguing it would lead to a general sort of depression still doesn't excuse yelling the n word on stage. Although it could have the air of a nervous breakdown more than people wanna admit. Still even manifesting in that way is weird maybe? I don't hecking know

 

Edit: and then the success of Curb Your Own Enthusiasm kind of compounds it. If ur a Seinfeld actor, is it like was it just good writing that made the show halfway interesting? Was my role as comedic actor on the show just like a FIGUREHEAD or something

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ragnar

[ignatius]

 

 

not saying Kramer's thing was excuseable but I can't imagine being anyone from the cast of Seinfeld. Like even if you think the show's a little shit it was pretty iconic and gonna be like the peak/high point of ur life. People from Mongolia probably know what Seinfeld is

 

like I could understand kramer being a little DISGRUNTLED washed up feeling but yeah not, that word

 

wasn't his excuse or the excuse people made for him that he was trying to 'go to a place' in comedy and riff and be edgy or something? because that guy was heckling him and ol' kramer he was striking out at every turn?  what a shit show. i wouldn't worry about michael richards.. i'm sure he still has plenty of that sienfeld money and gets a royalty check or something. 

 

 

michael richards is truly haunted by it - I sympathize with him in that regard - it was angry and inappropriate but he's not a bigoted asshole - he's kind of the first person to really get the backlash for saying something offensive without a worthy context or excuse - I can assure you plenty of 80s to mid-90s era white comics said racist shit all the time without being called out.

 

 

 

i'm sure he is.. i mean.. i used the N word once in front of a mixed race friend when we were watching a movie when i was 17 and i still have sleepless nights over it and i'm 46 now. for serious. i didn't even use it in 'that way' but have tortured myself ever since even though i was a dumb immature kid ignorant of the power of language and words etc.  

 

and definitely lot's of comics and actors etc (john wayne!) said all kinds of racist shit on stage and in interviews.. and sexist stuff as well.. i mean.. john hughes movies are full of some weird racist sexist stuff that at the time was a little cringey but now comes across as just so overtly racist or whatever.  but long duck dong was a fucking anti hero!

 

i hate that "he was a product of his time" shit that people pull about john wayne when there were plenty of other 'products of their time' who were calling out the bullshit racist crap and trying to live those better values. 

 

anyway.. as for strategies for dealing w/art from controversial people i think sometimes the art just stands on its own like miles davis' work or whatever.. but if it's some DJ who is a homophobe/racist/proud boy who made a good track then pass.. i can't deal w/it.  there's plenty of good music made by people who aren't assholes to throw light on people who are assholes. 

 

i guess somewhere there is a line for me personally but for new stuff current today if i here something and think it's good then a week later find the person is an asshole then i have no trouble ignoring it.  

 

maybe it depends just _how_ good something is ;)

 

i don't fucking know really. 

[patternoverlap]

 

 

 

not saying Kramer's thing was excuseable but I can't imagine being anyone from the cast of Seinfeld. Like even if you think the show's a little shit it was pretty iconic and gonna be like the peak/high point of ur life. People from Mongolia probably know what Seinfeld is

 

like I could understand kramer being a little DISGRUNTLED washed up feeling but yeah not, that word

 

wasn't his excuse or the excuse people made for him that he was trying to 'go to a place' in comedy and riff and be edgy or something? because that guy was heckling him and ol' kramer he was striking out at every turn?  what a shit show. i wouldn't worry about michael richards.. i'm sure he still has plenty of that sienfeld money and gets a royalty check or something. 

 

 

michael richards is truly haunted by it - I sympathize with him in that regard - it was angry and inappropriate but he's not a bigoted asshole - he's kind of the first person to really get the backlash for saying something offensive without a worthy context or excuse - I can assure you plenty of 80s to mid-90s era white comics said racist shit all the time without being called out.

 

 

not sure if this is a troll post, first of all blowing up like that is inexcusable, second of all seinfeld royalty checks or whatever but (money probably doesn't make you happy), I would say the most happiness in their lives came from being on the show and having that comraderie and STUF IS HAPPENING constantly

 

all I was arguing is it's probably a /depressing/ situation to make it to such success, and then I said not just Kramer, like everyone on that show afterward, Elaine had some moderate success with one or two sitcoms? But everyone else was like half-baked idea for a series that tanked over and over. Maybe Jerry has some HBO thing I dunno, but it must've felt like "oh great I have this resume of most successful sitcom like in the history of ever, but maybe that didn't actually reflect upon my talent? Or it was the entire cast and some kind of Borg mind-meld that made the show any good and by myself I'm kind of shitcomedian?

 

I guess imagine if Autechre broke up and both guys did a solo act but the 'magic' of Autechre wasn't there

 

but yeah I was just arguing it would lead to a general sort of depression still doesn't excuse yelling the n word on stage. Although it could have the air of a nervous breakdown more than people wanna admit. Still even manifesting in that way is weird maybe? I don't hecking know

 

Edit: and then the success of Curb Your Own Enthusiasm kind of compounds it. If ur a Seinfeld actor, is it like was it just good writing that made the show halfway interesting? Was my role as comedic actor on the show just like a FIGUREHEAD or something

 

 

"For her performance on Veep, Louis-Dreyfus has received several accolades, most notably six consecutive Primetime Emmy Awards for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy Series from 2012–2017"

 

2 series that ran for 5 plus seasons is more than moderate success imo.

 

Agree about Richards and Alexander though. I think the success of the show was mostly down to Larry David's writing (the success of Curb Your Enthusiasm confirms this) and the chemistry between the cast and the great side characters.