NZ Mosque Shooting Footage

[sheatheman]

4 Chan today is just a bunch of new reddit plebs posting green texts about adopting a cat that cures their depression. Usually end with feels good man.

 

8 Chan is just a fake reset of 4 Chan edge, but it’s not really real.

 

Internet really has changed for the worse in every single way. It’s just faster. We can get garbage basic binary content faster than ever.

[joshuatxuk]

I'm also surprised at the number of people on here calling for censorship.

 

 

we need media literacy being taught in schools

[Gyroscopic]

lol @ needing semi-automatic rifles for sport. 

 

Just incase you need to mow down a horde of angry grizzly bears. Or because you're a jackass who wants to turn thier hunt into a pile of meaty cheese.

[koolkeyZ865]

lol @ needing semi-automatic rifles for sport. 

 

No one with a fully functioning brain argues that they are meant for sport. If they were, they would generally have more stopping power. Semi-Automatic (or fully automatic weapons for that matter) would not be an issue for people living out in the middle of nowhere. They're only an issue for people living like insects in the city. Cities are the issue, here. 

[bitchroast]

ban cities

agreed

[zkom]

People are the issue, ban people

[chenGOD]

But if we didn’t have people then no Aphex.

 

Wut do?

[koolkeyZ865]

aphex is the big gay because he actually writes his music with his inferior mortal meatflesh brain. we need sean to program a conscious pure data bot that exists for the sole purpose of creating 24hr soundscapes. people are obsolete 

[goDel]

But but...if there's no one to hear the music, does a tree fall in the woods?

[kichiguy]

Can someone explain to me, an older gent on the internet, what the thinking was with including pewdiepie/memes etc into all of this? Why did they figure into this sick bastard's manifesto / actions? 

[bitchroast]

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/2/17/14613234/pewdiepie-nazi-satire-alt-right

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/09/12/there-are-no-excuses-for-it-pewdiepie-apologizes-for-saying-the-n-word-in-a-youtube-livestream/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.83cae5968e97

 

my take on it is,... pewdiepie has the offensive/online gamer sense of humour that appeals to a lot of young online gamer dudes. and then his behaviours and language in past, has gotten him in trouble with youtube + youtube advertisers + etc. +  ^examples above being "the mainstream media" being against free speech and all that kind of stuff, or people taking it as a small part of wider issue. it's all just tying into the big "culture war" that's happening ATM of left wing SJW politics taking over peoples freedoms. pewdiepie for them represents fighting for freedom of speech in the LEFT VS RIGHT war. 

or something o.O ((( this is just my take on it. might be missing something here ))) 

[goDel]

Yeah, in pewdiepie's case you could argue it was the mainstream media's misplaced attempt to put him in a right-wing box, that helped making the right-wing case against the liberal/elitist media. The mainstream media attacking pewdiepie basically justified the right-wingers/alt-right. And apparently it also landed in the crazy mans manifesto.

 

Or in other words, hysteria meets more hysteria. The irony here, yeah the media actually *is* part of this story.

[goDel]

You'd almost want to educate people by spending a decent amount of time on 4chan. It's good for the social/emotional immune system, so to speak. It helps against allergies for different ideas, by drowning you in extreme filth.

 

It's good for you. It really is. Similar to training your actual immune system.

 

edit: I'd also urge people not to immediately blame 4chan and the likes for people like the christchurch killer. There's always going to be sick idiots doing this stuff. With or without internet filth.

[goDel]

not calling for censorship, calling for education and debate. unreasonable people won't come to the table on the shit that they talk, they exist in world where everything can be dismissed as 'you're denying my free speech rights' or 'you just hate that i disagree with you' or pick any whataboutism that you want instead of actually engaging. internet toilets like 8chan actively try to race to the bottom on every issue and here's a fella that took that seriously enough to kill innocent people. it would be nice to see people take a more active stance against violence and hateful rhetoric in general, and not just in a way that suits their own political agenda.

 

I'd argue that the way the mainstream media handled pewdiepie shows how this could completely fail and reach the opposite effect, btw.

 

Or in other words, SJW will attract more social injustice, instead of justice.

[zkom]

 

I feel that there used to be much more shock content in the mainstream internet before.

Everything's just ramped up in its specific area: mainstream has gotten more mainstream/vanilla, fringe has gotten fringier/nuttier, dark has gotten darker/extreme, and so on. Much like the whole of modern/western society, hand in hand, maybe the internet has exacerbated things irl or vice versa? I don't study this stuff, just observations. 

 

There were probably a few different things that killed the old internet culture, but I think one was when money started to pour in through advertising revenues. Before that a lot of the boards were run mostly by voluntary work or as a some kind of hobby. Suddenly they became actual viable income source.

 

This had a couple of effects at least:

- Mainstream sites needed to clean up their act to not lose advertisers. Making them family friendly or sfw.

- Radicalized content could be monetized. In early internet days the fringe nutters were just lone people with limited resources posting from their homes. Now we have people like Alex Jones who as crazy as he is, is running a business with several employees and raking in the money. This has really put the conspiracy theory dissemination on a whole new level.

 

So, on the other hand you need clean up your act if you intend to make money out of mainstream sites, but on the other hand you can actually make money by just going crazy enough as long as you know how to keep the people interested and turn the clicks into cash.

 

Also when the seedier and more controversial stuff was driven out of mainstream it got concentrated and started to feed on itself.

[goDel]

No, that's not what I was saying.

 

Point is that "a more active stance against violence and hateful rhetoric in general" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. Who's to say what is reasonable and what isn't? What the media was doing in the context of pewdiepie had little to do with "coming to the table and discuss things". And in a way just added for fire to the fuel. 

 

The problem is in defining what an active stance against violence and hateful rhetoric is. SJW is not an excuse to end the debate. It's an example of how you can end up at the opposite side of the spectrum and becoming part of the problem you want to solve.

 

So I'm not sure what your active stance against violence and hateful rhetoric is supposed to look like. It's certainly not a trivial thing to define. If it is even possible to come to a definition. It's safer to assume you (people in general) can't, imo.

[auxien]

Suddenly they became actual viable income source.

....

Also when the seedier and more controversial stuff was driven out of mainstream it got concentrated and started to feed on itself.

Good points mokz yeah, money had a lot to do with the big changes in things. I'd say the feeding on itself wasn't just in the seedy stuff either (perhaps worst there tho), but really became the means for the 'bubbles' in general.

[YangYing]

Yeah, in pewdiepie's case you could argue it was the mainstream media's misplaced attempt to put him in a right-wing box, that helped making the right-wing case against the liberal/elitist media. The mainstream media attacking pewdiepie basically justified the right-wingers/alt-right. And apparently it also landed in the crazy mans manifesto.

 

Or in other words, hysteria meets more hysteria. The irony here, yeah the media actually *is* part of this story.

I hadn't thought of it from this angle, cheers

[Soloman Tump]

I wasn't specifically calling for teh internetz censorship, I am just naive enough to be surprised at how easily accessible a lot of this shit is to kids and people who want to seek it out.

 

Tim Berners-Lee was right

[drome]

Many on message for censorship after this then. Tail wag dog tail wag dog tail wag dog.

[Bodhidharma]

Internet really has changed for the worse in every single way. It’s just faster. We can get garbage basic binary content faster than ever.

 

the internet is probably the greatest invention the world has ever seen, apart from the wheel maybe.

 

its only horrible if you let it control you. if you got no backbone and dont want to improve yourself, easy dopamine flooding pixels can be flooding your mind in an instant. id say what someone else said earlier about each part of the internet being emphasised, i.e. the bad bits get worse, good bits get better. just ignore the bad shit

[cwmbrancity]

Have abstained from posting in Fred, but it’s a rare free day & I hate ironing....

 

The pathology of the murderer, who may well be a confirmed sick cunt, should be picked over, but there can’t be too many surprises waiting

 

There have always been psychopaths, all too willing to execute amorality in the name of whateverthefuck, abstract politics & “civil rights” (the north of Ireland as an example), crime, pleasure in causing suffering, hubris....you could easily add many more

 

It’ll happen again and again and again and again, because unless you can unpick the cultural/societal, pathological & organisational frameworks that create these agendas and the people they create, identify high risk profiles & engage in tried and tested deradicalisation programs (proven with religiously radicalised individuals), nothing will change

 

There were untold horrors b4 the internet, other forms of comms, other ways of conveying atrocities to the outside world beyond live streaming online, us vs them binary bs, but with a killer like this would an early intervention by the intelligence services and the offer to engage in deradicalisation have been met with something akin to change?

 

Therein lies the rub and the fact some of those murdered had made it all the way from an apocalypse like Syria, maaaaan, what a fucked up world

[fumi]

From The Washington Post:

 

 

YouTube says that in the hours after the terrorist attack in New Zealand, people were uploading copies of the shooter’s live-streamed video footage at the rate of one copy every second.

 

 

Facebook said that it automatically blocked 1.2 million copies at the point of upload, and removed another 300,000 copies …

[worms]

Have abstained from posting in Fred, but it’s a rare free day & I hate ironing....

The pathology of the murderer, who may well be a confirmed sick cunt, should be picked over, but there can’t be too many surprises waiting

There have always been psychopaths, all too willing to execute amorality in the name of whateverthefuck, abstract politics & “civil rights” (the north of Ireland as an example), crime, pleasure in causing suffering, hubris....you could easily add many more

It’ll happen again and again and again and again, because unless you can unpick the cultural/societal, pathological & organisational frameworks that create these agendas and the people they create, identify high risk profiles & engage in tried and tested deradicalisation programs (proven with religiously radicalised individuals), nothing will change

There were untold horrors b4 the internet, other forms of comms, other ways of conveying atrocities to the outside world beyond live streaming online, us vs them binary bs, but with a killer like this would an early intervention by the intelligence services and the offer to engage in deradicalisation have been met with something akin to change?

Therein lies the rub and the fact some of those murdered had made it all the way from an apocalypse like Syria, maaaaan, what a fucked up world

Even George Orwell killed people in the spanish civil war, but that was legal in british law

[goDel]

 

So I'm not sure what your active stance against violence and hateful rhetoric is supposed to look like. It's certainly not a trivial thing to define. If it is even possible to come to a definition. It's safer to assume you (people in general) can't, imo.

 

what do you think it's supposed to look like? a stronger conversation about how divisive rhetoric has pushed people to unreasonable extremes to the detriment of society. we're not going to get anywhere if we pursue violent, 'us vs them' agendas for the sake of votes and media coverage. your willingness to compartmentalise and use appeals to the political spectrum to create distractions are examples of this. what do you propose as an alternative? interested to know what your solution is here, since we're all working towards an ideological light at the end of the tunnel i am curious to know about yours.

 

 

 

as mentioned earlier, i'd put more eggs into the "gain immunity" basket. what's meant as a joke to one might be a harassment to another. or what's divisive and unreasonable to one, might be the complete opposite to the other. having an active stance against those things, beyond whats lawful or not, often backfires.

 

and it could a problem in itself to label speech as divisive and unreasonable, imo. it implies speech is beyond understanding and reason. and more importantly beyond engagement. (btw, I'd say current laws on speech should be sufficient - apart from the corporations are individuals too nonsense in the us)

 

also, pause a second before using the label "divisive"/"unreasonable". in an ironical way, using those labels can be divisive and unreasonable in and of itself. it's better to have a sense of immunity. try having a conversation about it. engage. get to understand why people have such "unreasonable" or "divisive" views. understanding takes time and effort. if you're not willing to put in the effort to understand, move on.

 

but having an active stance against speech implies a desire for change. and if i imagine people changing my mind, there's often a level of mutual understanding and respect involved. i consider "engagement" a basic necessity. take that away, and people can f-ck right off. i might reflect. and i might even change my mind. but the odds are drastically lowered if people don't want to engage. and i don't think i'm unique in this aspect.

 

so, instead of "having an active stance against" i'd say "engagement" would be a more fruitful approach. understanding is more important than being right. i tend to consider "having an active stance against" as a (verbal) form of violence, btw. but that really depends on how you define it, i guess.

 

some holds for the other stuff you mention ("us vs them", etc). 

 

and f-ing stop being triggered and morally outraged btw (not you, but generally speaking). Being triggered and outraged is a sign of a lacking immune system, imo. those are completely unproductive emotions.

 

note that "trolling" is often specifically aimed at triggering emotions. it's an immunity game. you lose if you're triggered. and at places like 4chan, people like to push to the extremes. i'd agree it's not safe for the young ones who still need to build their immune system. but other than that, i see no issues with it. childporn used to be a serious issue at 4chan. but for stuff like that, existing laws suffice. other than that, enter at your own risk. and learn to take responsibility for your own emotions. don't blame having certain emotions on others.

 

a certain kind of rhetoric rarely is the real issue. often it's just a symptom. and - again - understanding is required to come to a solution. or cure if you will.

 

but i'm repeating myself.

 

whatever you think of my response, please don't be triggered. i'm just a human. i can say stupid inane stuff. engage if you want understanding. ignore if useless. and troll at will. i might piss my pants if my online immune system is insufficient. wouldn't post pics though..