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Danny O Flannagin

Veganism

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2 hours ago, MIXL2 said:

edit: honestly I think it even is a good way to make more people go vegan, you'd argue if you're ok with eating meat then you should be perfectly fine with seeing all of the torture that goes on to make that meat and you shouldn't feel that suffering by virtue of itself should be reduced.. most people would probably disagree w the second premise I.e. most people should probs be vegan

nobody's happy to know that animals suffer because of us, psychopaths aside. conscious hypocrisy and denial resolve the moral dilemma. 

Edited by brian trageskin

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1 minute ago, brian trageskin said:
1 hour ago, MIXL2 said:

edit: honestly I think it even is a good way to make more people go vegan, you'd argue if you're ok with eating meat then you should be perfectly fine with seeing all of the torture that goes on to make that meat and you shouldn't feel that suffering by virtue of itself should be reduced.. most people would probably disagree w the second premise I.e. most people should probs be vegan

nobody's happy to know that animals suffer because of us, psychopaths aside. conscious hypocrisy resolves the moral dilemma. 

not happy, but you can be not bothered by it at all. otherwise is not a v soild stance.. if you feel that animals should suffer less and still eat meat you're just being inconsistent or "consciously hypocritical" which is p bad (you could justify having slaves because you're consciously hypocritical for example)

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1 minute ago, MIXL2 said:

not happy, but you can be not bothered by it at all. otherwise is not a v soild stance.. if you feel that animals should suffer less and still eat meat you're just being inconsistent or "consciously hypocritical" which is p bad (you could justify having slaves because you're consciously hypocritical for example)

iit's called moral ambivalence and it's omnipresent in our lives. 

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that doesn't make it any less shitty

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The Morality of Black Holes in relation to Martin Buber's "I And Thou" - please discuss.

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mass production of animals is wrong and dumb. eating meat in excess is unhealthy and stupid. don´t do wrongdumbstupid shit. 

u have to understand that u have been programmed all your life to think that eating meat is ok. i know because i was in denial for so many years, but finally went full vegan 4 years ago. only thing i regret about that decision is that i did not do it earlier. 

it is really (sad)funny to see the same arguments here that i used to justify my moral lazyness

 

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On 7/3/2019 at 8:17 PM, goDel said:

If we keep on going deep, I've got one too:

"to truly be insufferable, means to completely deny being insufferable"

It's the insufferability-paradox! Godel's insufferability paradox! ;D

To be fair on vegans, I have met/ encountered 0 annoying or obnoxious vegans and have come across several hundred people who eat meat who are constantly getting their kickers in a twist over someone who doesn't meat meat. Obnoxious meat eaters who eat raw meat in front of PETA to OWN DA LIBS are becoming the very thing they want to fight against.

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21 hours ago, megapussi said:

mass production of animals is wrong and dumb. eating meat in excess is unhealthy and stupid. don´t do wrongdumbstupid shit. 

u have to understand that u have been programmed all your life to think that eating meat is ok. i know because i was in denial for so many years, but finally went full vegan 4 years ago. only thing i regret about that decision is that i did not do it earlier. 

it is really (sad)funny to see the same arguments here that i used to justify my moral lazyness

 

I read this while eating a lamb/beef shawarma pita and I think it made it taste even better, so thank you. 

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On 7/5/2019 at 11:32 AM, milkface said:

To be fair on vegans, I have met/ encountered 0 annoying or obnoxious vegans and have come across several hundred people who eat meat who are constantly getting their kickers in a twist over someone who doesn't meat meat. 

My experience has been the complete opposite - this thread for example:

Vegans - "all meat eaters are morally bankrupt pieces of shit torturing and abusing animals just to eat meat".

Meat eaters - "the arguments or underlying philosophies you're using to advance veganism don't particularly add up". 

One of those is particularly more obnoxious than the other. Most meat eaters I have met just say "I respect your choice, eat whatever you want, (please don't try to shove your moral/ethical arguments down my throat please), but I disagree". Can't say vegans/vege take the same approach often.

That has been 90% of this thread. Edit: ok, to be fair maybe more like 70%. 

 

 

Editeditedit: not intending for this to be a "vs" comment, just an observation/my experience.

 

 

Edited by StephenG

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If you understand the ethical reasoning behind veganism you should be able to understand why a vegan person might get agitated in the curse of a discussion.

Eating meat always means death and death is a very emotional topic. Everyone involved in such a discussion therefore should be especially sensitive and also broadminded when it comes to the views others express. Often you meet people in the middle of ascertaining a stance, and in order for them to do this in a wise way bitchiness must be avoided

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Agreed, yes.

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would man of evolved and survived in certain places on Earth without eating beast or fish?

I doubt that we would of survived the ice age if we were just eating gooseberries and turnips, or is that a really stupid thing to say? 

so when people say we've been brainwashed into eating meat, I'm a bit sceptical on that tbh

but then I have just drank a gallon of gin (so maybe I'm just thinking out loud)

maybe militant vegans should think about that, that if there ancient forefathers weren't tucking into wooly mammoth ribs they wouldn't be alive right now

hahah 

Edited by beer badger
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5 hours ago, darreichungsform said:

If you understand the ethical reasoning behind veganism you should be able to understand why a vegan person might get agitated in the curse of a discussion.

Eating meat always means death and death is a very emotional topic. Everyone involved in such a discussion therefore should be especially sensitive and also broadminded when it comes to the views others express. Often you meet people in the middle of ascertaining a stance, and in order for them to do this in a wise way bitchiness must be avoided

For most of human history, not eating animals meant death for humans, which is more emotional. Lots of starvation in the 20th Century. You can only live off old moldy potatoes for so long, so you build a trap for pigeons or something. And it’s not like either are your first choice. 

It’s not really a moral issue in that sense. We all have the luxury of being vegans now. 

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I agree, Veganism is a luxury choice for many westeners due to the one world global trading age we live in.

A couple of hundred years ago, if there was a bad storm and you were waiting for your shipment of bananas / pineapples / rice to arrive via boat, I suspect you may have just eaten a rabbit pie like everyone else.

As already stated, I have no issue with people choosing to eat Vegan but its not something I choose.

My 4 year old son was asking about fish last week so I am going to take him to the local trout farm soon and we will catch our own.  Looking forward to that - a sustainable fishing option rather than trawler caught hundreds of miles away.  Was reading about the plastic waste associated with the fishing industry recently and its pretty grim.

Edited by Soloman Tump

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Mortimer & Whitehouse’s fishing show had a good tangent on sustainable fishing & ethics, the one where they line caught & ate a bass & the entire angling community went “Bass? Noooo, the vegans will hate us even more nowww”, well worth checking out

equally weird is how humans don’t seem to associate fish within the same moral framework as say cats or birds 

plus there don’t seem to be many folks on here even into fishing, which is nice when yer surrounded by fishingfishing crews irl

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That fishing show was just brilliant. Second season coming soon!

I’m quite a keen pursuer of things piscatorial (one day maybe I’ll catch Fish Beast Man flol).

When I was a kid my parents used to take me to Poole Aquarium, and I would spend what seemed like hours gazing into those tanks, my imagination racing at the speed of light. So fishing was a natural progression, I wanted to connect with the unseen mystery under the surface.

Pretty sure a lot of fanatical vegans would have me burned at the stake for such evil activity. I reckon we could be going a bit of a tangent, so I’m outta this thread. Farewell!

Edited by beer badger

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It is interesting how fishing is seen in a completely different light to say Pheasant shooting.  Both "hobbies" regulated by licensing (in the case of river / sea fishing anyway).

Fishing - barbed hook through mouth, potential of slow death, clubbed over head with mallet when landed.

Game shooting - usually an instant headshot (but not always!)

I also really enjoyed the Mortimer / Whitehouse show, really well done.

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I'm glad you all agree we have the luxury of being vegan these days, in other words, that animal products are optional. There are plenty of people out there who seem to think a vegan diet (still) amounts to self-harm no matter how well you plan it.

Fletcher, it's clear from all of your posts that you've not only reflected more than most on what you eat but also adjusted your behavior accordingly, so kudos for that. And I don't disagree that depending on what place and time we're talking about it could be anywhere from difficult to impossible to thrive as a vegan. But those examples are poorly chosen. There's no reason why a vegan would be more dependent on bananas, pineapples or rice than anyone else.

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On 7/5/2019 at 12:52 AM, brian trageskin said:

conscious hypocrisy and denial resolve the moral dilemma. 

this is the lowest iq shit i've ever read

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On 7/7/2019 at 12:06 PM, beer badger said:

would man of evolved and survived in certain places on Earth without eating beast or fish?

I doubt that we would of survived the ice age if we were just eating gooseberries and turnips, or is that a really stupid thing to say? 

so when people say we've been brainwashed into eating meat, I'm a bit sceptical on that tbh

but then I have just drank a gallon of gin (so maybe I'm just thinking out loud)

maybe militant vegans should think about that, that if there ancient forefathers weren't tucking into wooly mammoth ribs they wouldn't be alive right now

hahah 

Modern society likely would not exist without human slavery, they were the work force of our species for thousands of years, allowing the eventual creation of upper classes immune from physical work who could spend their time on intellectual tasks which otherwise would not have been tackled yet.  Does this make it okay?

Meat bootstrapped our society upwards, but it's time to let go of that vestigial habit especially with the coming climate crisis since meat farming is so much less efficient than eating plants directly.  You lose like 10-20x efficiency when you feed plants to animals then eat the animals instead of just eating the plants.  We can't afford it and our planet can't afford it.  The rainforest is being destroyed not for wood, but for cattle pastures.

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At least in that regard Zeff I think the real problem is not the efficiency of farming (meat and otherwise) as much as overpopulation.... If people would slow down on the f'ing it would help, but that has economic/social/political consequences of course.

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