xox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Well i dont get the ‘philosophical’ arguments, which seems reasonable and intelligent just not intelligent enough imo But i respect the sympathy for animals which we ppl in general lack and empathically i do get the emotional background for the decision to go vegan. imo and ime it’s an emotional decision not quite a reasonable one and it’s valid as any i guess bc it’s a matter of personal choice. I do find very amusing moral high ground attitudes/‘arguments’ some vegans like to toss around (and sometimes in a very aggressive manner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmbrancity Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Cows = methane Methane = climate change Cows get served up as various cuts of steak = everyone wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Well i dont get the ‘philosophical’ arguments, which seems reasonable and intelligent just not intelligent enough imo http://www.animal-rights-library.com/texts-m/singer04.pdf also read this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Under-Skin-Michel-Faber/dp/1782112111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBro Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Interesting thread. A lot going around saying how bad diary products are. Its very tempting to go Vegetarian of Vegan except you need some essential stuff from meat such as B12 although I know you can get it from supplements instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Well i dont get the ‘philosophical’ arguments, which seems reasonable and intelligent just not intelligent enough imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soloman Tump Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Cows = methane Methane = climate change Cows get served up as various cuts of steak = everyone wins Love your avatar btw, that was a funny episode :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Well i dont get the ‘philosophical’ arguments, which seems reasonable and intelligent just not intelligent enough imo http://www.animal-rights-library.com/texts-m/singer04.pdf also read this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Under-Skin-Michel-Faber/dp/1782112111 i knew itll come to links and books... i did them millions of times, dealt with it in college a lot, gotten through with sea of material supplied by mybestfriend's gf and her friends which are vegans. so, thnx... ive read this pdf and i doubt ill ever read the book. this paper called animal liberation is very limited and shallow, not dramatically but it's not deep enought, same as any work that ive ever read about the subject. i have my views and id need 17 days of writing to explain my self and even more to explain my self to a vegan, not because i think that vegans are less intelligent, au contraire, ime they're usually above average knowleable and intelligent, but in their eyes we stand on opposite sides, but i agree with vegans more than i dont, 90:10 in a favor of an agreement also, why it cant stay an emotional decision? it's a good one imo it makes sense to me. i mean, you dont need to prove anything to anyone just dont rape other ppl with your (i dont mean YOU) decisions. that's it! we can co-exist :) Well i dont get the ‘philosophical’ arguments, which seems reasonable and intelligent just not intelligent enough imo yes, that's my belly full of lamb :) also, i apologies if i directly or indirectly insulted anyone here! i wasnt my intention nor do i see myself in any way superior to any of you in any way. ill exclude myself from this discussion watmmz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limo Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Cage free eggs require further investigation. It might just be the chickens have the same limited space as before, only now they have to share it. This stuff is hard to do right. So I get where veganism is coming from, really I do. It's just that it's bad for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soloman Tump Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 This Is the farm about 5 miles away from me where the pork comes from. I've been there and it looks like a clean farm with some happy grunting pigs. https://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/8973488.kelmscott-pork-wins-wide-following/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerwolf Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Do you think some people are more suited towards a plant based diet than others? Just when I was trekking the Annapurna Circuit I was with five veggies and two vegans, three of which were doctors. Some of them mentioned that I would struggle with a 100% meat free diet, that my body would find it hard to cope. I have to say after 6 months in Nepal and India following a mostly vegetarian diet I was almost going out of my mind thinking about eating meat and eggs, literally going mad thinking about it all the time. I didn't feel any benefit of eating very little meat. I just don't think I'm engineered that way to be vegan. I could possibly cope as long as I could eat eggs but I think it wouldn't be long before I'd be lusting after beef, a whole roasted chicken or a couple of mackerel. I do feel sorry for the little beasts getting the chop though. No doubt if I could look into the animals eyes that had was gonna get wasted for my plate I'd eat only what was absolutely essential. I've caught, killed and cooked fish and rabbits many times, I'd also if I had to kill a chicken, grouse or pheasant, I know I could deal with that pretty easy. Once the leap was taken to bambi, I think I'd struggle lol. If it was back to basics I guess it would depend on how hungry I was I guess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Industrial life stock farming reminds on concentration camps. The intention behind it is different of course but the life conditions of the animals are horrible and probably worse than those of humans living in detention centres. Nothing wrong with killing an animal in a humane way and eating it after it had a good life but the way humans exploit non-human life is disgusting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 the way humans exploit non-human life is disgusting x1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerwolf Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I always instantly switch over any television programme showing how animals are treated for the meat industry. Because I'm a bit of a softie with beasts. Mainly because ignorance is bliss, and I just don't need the conflict in my mind. I try to offset the guilt by buying the best meat I possibly can. I still feel like a hypocrite deep down. But as I said, no meat and I become a bit of a withering wreck. It's a weird one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 This Is the farm about 5 miles away from me where the pork comes from. I've been there and it looks like a clean farm with some happy grunting pigs. https://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/8973488.kelmscott-pork-wins-wide-following/ I'm from Devon and all the farms around there seem to free range all their animals, porks and beefs running around, frolicking in the muds etc. Also my foster Dad was a dairy farmer and told me all about how most people farm for dairy, I also knew someone who worked in an abattoir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidrodi Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Nothing wrong with killing an animal in a humane way How does one murder humanely exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Nothing wrong with killing an animal in a humane way How does one murder humanely exactly? like this *teleports behind you* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Nothing wrong with killing an animal in a humane way How does one murder humanely exactly? Painless and without inducing fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I think veganism is a very noble idea, however... it completely ignores that a huge percent of the worlds population don't have the option to eat fancy wholefoods style shit. Most people need to eat the food with the highest nutrition at the lowest cost, to feed themselves and their families, and inevitably it's things like chicken that they can afford. To condemn people then for eating nutritious food they can afford instead of eating expensive non-meat alternatives, is actually such a privileged thing to do. so stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I think veganism is a very noble idea, however... it completely ignores that a huge percent of the worlds population don't have the option to eat fancy wholefoods style shit. Most people need to eat the food with the highest nutrition at the lowest cost, to feed themselves and their families, and inevitably it's things like chicken that they can afford. To condemn people then for eating nutritious food they can afford instead of eating expensive non-meat alternatives, is actually such a privileged thing to do. so stop it. That's true. The thing is that meat production is consuming a lot of food and water and land that could be used by humans to solve the problem of death from starvation and at the same time is very damaging to the environment and further ruins the anthroposphere especially in regions of the world that are already poor. The extensive meat industry isn't only inhumane, it directly and indirectly destroys the planet. I understand that people who actually always visualize the suffering behind meat production are disgusted by meat and don't want to eat it anymore but the percentage of vegans will most likely always be so small that it doesn't change anything. There won't be one cow less killed because of vegans. So I'm hoping that artificially grown / "clean" meat will become a thing and a source of cheap and high quality meat, produced with almost zero cruelty, and can replace the current industry. It's the only chance I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 yes I agree that lab grown meat is a great idea for the western world and I'm 100% behind that. But in less developed parts of the world it's just not going to be an option. also the areas of the world that do consume the very most meat, just don't give a shit about veganism. https://ourworldindata.org/meat-and-seafood-production-consumption however! this whole personal choices can save the world thing is bullshit and is distracting people from the real larger cause of global warming which is industrial pollution. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions and agriculture only accounts for 9% of the fucking problem. to summarise, yes it's great that people are thinking responsibly about the planet etc, but individuals eating plants and recycling and cycling ain't gonna fix it. the real change needs to come from the sources of energy, and the fuels that all our transport runs on. but how can this happen with governments in the pockets of the oil tycoons???? https://vimeo.com/210171457 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I think that lab grown meat can become an option for the whole world in the future. 150 years ago the life standard in Europe for a great deal of the population wasn't much better than in developing countries now and the idea today's living standard was Utopian. So I think on the long run clean meat should become world wide standard when developing countries catch up especially if artificially grown meat is cheaper than meat from living animals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I hope so! But even changing this isn't going to save the world, so people shouldn't become distracted by the larger causes of global warming. I'm sure in the not too distant future, the only place you will see a real life chicken, beef or pork, is in the zoo. people will point and laugh in their zero gravity space suits. "Ergh people used to eat these!" say's the little boy with a neon propeller hat like in back to the future. "they're all covered in shit!" he then zooms of into the sky somehow. and his guardians will laugh as they think about how groce killing and eating animals was, and also exchanging fluids or touching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soloman Tump Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Dear vegans: would you eat lab grown meat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 It's just that it's bad for you. evidence requested This Is the farm about 5 miles away from me where the pork comes from. I've been there and it looks like a clean farm with some happy grunting pigs. https://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/8973488.kelmscott-pork-wins-wide-following/ Are they happy and grunting when their throats get slit or their brains are smashed by pistons, or whatever other murder method this farm uses? Nothing wrong with killing an animal in a humane way and eating it after it had a good life but the way humans exploit non-human life is disgusting Why is nothing wrong with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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