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jordan peterson


dingformung
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1 minute ago, Alcofribas said:

how scary and evil foucault is (referred to here, in hugely genius terminology, as "an avowed marxist")

literally every marxist i know irl hates foucault's guts, because they view him as a prime of example of that french bullshit the CIA used to distract the left back in the 60s

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9 minutes ago, dcom said:

That's exactly my point - if those are things that you need to be told do to get your shit together, you deserve to like the rest of Peterson's oeuvre. It's all about being a (simple hu)man, sucking it up, not being a pussy, standing up straight and getting your collar starched. Read the bit about lobsters and admire how he draws parallels between crustaceans and humans because they share a neurotransmitter.

Yup, this is so easy for men who got lost in life just to admire.. He clearly stretches his hands to reach them.

Now many of those men have gone over to admire Elon Musk because Elon is the most succesful man in the world. 
And what Elon says is so mindblowing:

"How I become a succesful entrepenaur is because I wanted to create something that people loves."

People who wants to be rich and famous: "Oh my god that is amazing, what a genius!" 

😄

 

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8 minutes ago, Cryptowen said:

A. the idea that anything associated with masculinity was "toxic", and that the only acceptable developmental path was to mold yourself into a formless producer/consumer promoting a generic [...]

B. a rejection of this, which could only frame itself as a sort of netherworld, a self-obsessed extended adolescense in which you were encouraged to indulge your hedonistic impulses, to be a nihilistic dick whose only aspiration was to hustle, to fuck lots of drunk club girls, to look good without a shirt on.

Andrew Reiner - Better Boys, Better Men: The New Masculinity That Creates Greater Courage and Emotional Resiliency - it's a recent book, but it's an order of magnitude better than Peterson's.

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I see what you're aiming for with that repeated rhetorical device; the binary answer is a trap - if I answer no, my position is invalidated because I'm admitting Peterson is right - if I answer yes, I'm dismissing common sense advice on how to be a good/better person. No, there's nothing bad about them (unless your dad will beat you with jumper cables if you don't), but it doesn't invalidate my opinion on Petersen being a bloviating buffoon.

 

not what i was aiming for lol i just cannot comprehend how anyone would think they are brain rot

that particular sentence just jumped out at me thats all. you are free to have the rest of your opinion about him, and anyway, those kind of small steps do wonders for people with depression

 

oops mb forgot to quote

 

also why do you see it as a rhetorical device lmao. detach yourself from the notion of someone getting one up on another and just see it for what it is - a simple question

Edited by Bodhidharma
i forgot to quote
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Just now, Cryptowen said:

literally every marxist i know irl hates foucault's guts, because they view him as a prime of example of that french bullshit the CIA used to distract the left back in the 60s

peterson's take on foucault is basically hysterical. in the video peterson claims foucualt was an "avowed marxist" well beyond even sartre who had to retreat from openly supporting marxism after the crimes of stalin were revealed. yet in reality foucault was simply never a marxist at all except for a brief involvement in a communist group that took place before he wrote a single book. anyone who's done any reading on this will know that sartre said of foucualt that he was the "last barricade of the bourgeoisie" and foucault was constantly being yelled at by marxists because he thought marx was just a quaint economic historians whose theories were incapable of even describing power in the late 20th century. the current marxist conventional wisdom here (led by daniel zamora) is that foucault was a "neoliberal" and not even a leftist lol 

all of this is to say peterson is misinforming people bc he's not really serious about the topic. you can see in another video he admits to only having read the history of madness which he claims said "nothing new." for him "marxist" just means anyone who critiques "western values" from the left. this is indeed ironic bc he became popular precisely for his refusal to engage in using terminology he felt was inaccurate and "ideologically motivated," yet he uses terminology like this constantly whenever it suits him. 

i also think there's something at least vaguely homophobic about his particularly scornful biographical approach to foucault as someone who was lashing out against a society that didn't accept him. contrary to reality he paints foucault as some freakish and suicidal outsider who is just venomously lashing out at society, which totally reeks of stereotypical tropes of the evil queer. either that or peterson considers foucualt to be the joker, which is actually cool.

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15 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

that particular sentence just jumped out at me thats all. you are free to have the rest of your opinion about him, and anyway, those kind of small steps do wonders for people with depression

Are you serious in claiming that clinically depressed people need to be told to clean their room and stand up straight? I'm neurodivergent with Asperger's and type II bipolar disorder - based on my personal, in-depth experience on depression that would feel like an insult, a dismissal by simplicity. Yes, it can have a positive effect in some cases and some people, but to a truly, deeply depressed person it's belittling.

Edited by dcom
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there's an amusing bit of Petersonia that i like: there's a video of him back when he used to regularly guest on a canadian tv show - this is the video where the famous pic of him wearing like a zoot suit and a fedora comes from. in the video he's talking about how "the west" devalues masculinity and one of his examples is how at his kids' school "boys" can't throw snowballs at each other. ok first of that's a fucking stupid example about "the west". also why is it just "boys" lol. but the best part is the backstory is that at the school some kid through a snowball at another kid and it smacked his face and accidentally hurt him so the school was just like ok no more snowballs. what in the actually fuck does this have to do with gender and the west? seems pretty revealing of peterson's own weirdo baggage that he can't see this is just a school being conservative and probably trying to avoid lawsuits or whatever. presumably boys can't punch each other in the face either, is that also a fucked up example of the west coming down on men? this ties into to his equally weird claim that conversations between men are instinctively guided by the underlying threat of physical violence - it's quite clear peterson has issues with masculinity, violence, punching, things of this nature.

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one time in the B.C. (before covid) era, I was catching a bus home from a trivia night with friends. I sat across from a white man and an Asian woman, a young-ish couple, and he was holding a copy of 12 Rules, with both hands firmly grasping the sides and the front cover facing outwards, on display. they were having an odd lopsided conversation where she would talk at length and he would give curt, monotone replies while staring forward rigidly. expressionless, emotionless, pure elevated consciousness. they got to their stop and he immediately got up and strode off at full pace without waiting or looking after or saying a word to his meek gf who scurried after him. I don't think he even bothered tapping off with his travel card.

so yeah, anyone who tells you JBP ain't out here making real men out of children is a liar. thank you internet daddy.

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3 minutes ago, usagi said:

one time in the B.C. (before covid) era, I was catching a bus home from a trivia night with friends. I sat across from a white man and an Asian woman, a young-ish couple, and he was holding a copy of 12 Rules, with both hands firmly grasping the sides and the front cover facing outwards, on display. they were having an odd lopsided conversation where she would talk at length and he would give curt, monotone replies while staring forward rigidly. expressionless, emotionless, pure elevated consciousness. they got to their stop and he immediately got up and strode off at full pace without waiting or looking after or saying a word to his meek gf who scurried after him. I don't think he even bothered tapping off with his travel card.

so yeah, anyone who tells you JBP ain't out here making real men out of children is a liar. thank you internet daddy.

bro that was me wtf

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one night after a shift at the butchershop i was going out back to throw the scraps in the dumpster, and there was jormiriquoi peterson, eatin raw meat out of the trash like a gooddamn animal. i froze in my tracks, he looks up at me, his raccoon eyes glowing in the encroaching darkness. "clean your room bucko" he croaked before scurrying off on all fours into moonless night

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^ Peterson Perambulations, the spiritual successor to AFX Aventurs

3 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

bro that was me wtf

the Alco I remember was a tender, caring, empathic human being. what's this srupid website done to you.

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Just now, usagi said:

^ Peterson Perambulations, the spiritual successor to AFX Aventurs

the Alco I remember was a tender, caring, empathic human being. what's this srupid website done to you.

I looked up “how to clean my room m9” on wikihow

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33 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

also why do you see it as a rhetorical device lmao. detach yourself from the notion of someone getting one up on another and just see it for what it is - a simple question

Because it was repeated twice unchanged - that's not a simple question but a demand. Then again, I brought them up in a dismissive context to ridicule their simplicity, coming from an erudite but at time obtuse clinical psychologist. Anyway, I read the book, it was mostly bland but at times really horrible - e.g. Peterson makes his life choices exemplary in comparison to a childhood friend who makes a lot of bad choices - the superiority of Peterson's way of life is validated by his friend not having the same grit and discipline - but there's more self-righteous nastiness in there.

Edited by dcom
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1 minute ago, dcom said:

Because it was repeated twice unchanged - that's not a simple question but a demand. Then again, I brought them up in a dismissive context to ridicule their simplicity, coming from an erudite but at time obtuse clinical psychologist. Anyway, I read the book, it was mostly bland but at times really horrible - e.g. Peterson makes his life choices exemplary by comparing them to a childhood friend who makes a lot of bad choices - the superiority of Peterson's way of life is validated by his friend not having the same grit and discipline - there's more nastiness, too.

Is this the same friend who brought an intoxicated guy over to Peterson’s house and Peterson kicked them out and used the opportunity to pat himself on the back for not tolerating the personal flaw of drug abuse?

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1 hour ago, dingformung said:

I don't doubt his competence in his field (I can't evaluate that) but I doubt that his influence as a public figure is justified

Oh no... I believe it’s justified! This is why I think so:

Ppl apparently love him around the world! Especially young ppl seeking for a meaning in their lives in this fakt up world and he brings some sense to them; I believe he helps them more than not! Some ppl see him as promoting some radical beliefs but they just project their own feelings of insecurity and narcissism, don’t worry about them. 
He became famous when he stood up against that funny almost-law in Canada which was meant to force ppl to use special pronouns for transgender persons. Law!!! If it were about anything else, he wouldn’t be so famous today bc, understandably, transgender groups felt attacked by him and they were loud with calling names and labeling, even with words like “nazi”. I say understandably bc, it matters to them (and they are really quite marginalized and heavily stigmatized) and not bc they were attacked directly by him but consequently. He stood against that law as should any other sane person but ppl were afraid to talk about it just bc consequently you go against some stigmatized minority group, which makes you automatically a first order nazi. Isn’t that sick! Not be able to say anything about such an influential law? Even if it’s a total nonsense?! Dangerous nonsense at that! That’s the word we’re living today! Nazi big brother world! He almost lost his job at the uni! Can you imagine that?! That’s not a world where everybody is welcomed and safe, but a world of fear and sick narcissistic projections and separation of ppl and groups, not about unification! Proper nazi world! Let’s just label you with “filthy jew” (as he was also called) and you with “mr nazi”!
And he was brave enough to say something about the law but everybody just continued talking about him against the trans ppl, about women rights.... And he realized that it’s a bigger problem than he thought it was so he continued to talk about what ever ppl wanted to talk about and even after saying repeatedly that it’s about the law and freedom of speech and how it would eventually just do more harm than good to the minority group and everyone else, all left extremists opposed him even harder bc finally, someone we can attack on a tv! Personal chaos and simplified world is not how a healthy world should look like!

So... If ppl want to go to his meetings and listen to his lectures about ‘cleaning their rooms’ and to buy his book, i see no prob i that. I’m glad he stood up bc he somehow managed to slow down the totalitarian machine that’s been waiting around the corner. So, he’s probably still relevant bc he still represents that fight against oppression and against silent totalitarian tricks in a modern democracies. He still represents freedom of speech, that we need more than ever today! And we now talk more openly than ever about stigmatizations of minorities and related problems in our societies. We need more of that! Not less! 
All other talk about how he talks, looks or whatever is just noise imo, not the point. I never talked about him here bc even here, on mighty watmm, ppl are unable to see the shades of grey, it’s either black or white!

Edited by xox
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51i7LVLrZ2L.jpg

tried to watch this but couldn't stand it. it's basically peterson bitching that he doesn't want to call transgendered people by their preferred pronouns interspersed with footage of him doing public talks to reaffirm this stance. 

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9 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

Is this the same friend who brought an intoxicated guy over to Peterson’s house and Peterson kicked them out and used the opportunity to pat himself on the back for not tolerating the personal flaw of drug abuse?

Yeah, then there's the bit about a female patient having problems with drunken promiscuity - Peterson writes for a considerable length what he would've wanted to say to the patient, really, really nasty misogynistic drivel. I got really angry reading it, it's nearer the end of the book and I almost threw it out the window because WTF, man, why don't you tell us what you really think about the boozy whore who's paying you to help her? Had I any respect for Peterson it would've dropped to nothing at that.

Edited by dcom
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1 minute ago, dcom said:

Yeah, then there's the bit about a female patient having problems with drunken promiscuity - Peterson writes for a considerable length what he would've wanted to say to the patient, really, really nasty misogynistic drivel. I got really angry reading it, it's nearer the end of the book and I almost threw it out the window because WTF, man, why don't you tell us what you really think about the boozy whore who's paying you to help her?

Yeah this stuff is barely under the surface for him. He’s kind of seething with personal baggage. 

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5 minutes ago, xox said:

Oh no... I believe it’s justified! This is why I think so:

Ppl apparently love him around the world! Especially young ppl seeking for a meaning in their lives in this fakt up world and he brings some sense to them; I believe he helps them more than not! Some ppl see him as promoting some radical beliefs but they just project their own feelings of insecurity and narcissism, don’t worry about them. 
He became famous when he stood up against that funny almost-law in Canada which was meant to force ppl to use special pronouns for transgender persons. Law!!! If it were about anything else, he wouldn’t be so famous today bc, understandably, transgender groups felt attacked by him and they were loud with calling names and labeling, even with words like “nazi”. I say understandably bc, it matters to them (and they are really quite marginalized and heavily stigmatized) and not bc they were attacked directly by him but consequently. He stood against that law as should any other sane person but ppl were afraid to talk about it just bc consequently you go against some stigmatized minority group, which makes you automatically a first order nazi. Isn’t that sick! Not be able to say anything about such an influential law? Even if it’s a total nonsense?! Dangerous nonsense at that! That’s the word we’re living today! Nazi big brother world! He almost lost his job at the uni! Can you imagine that?! That’s not a world where everybody is welcomed and safe, but a world of fear and sick narcissistic projections and separation of ppl and groups, not about unification! Proper nazi world! Let’s just label you with “filthy jew” (as he was also called) and you with “mr nazi”!
And he was brave enough to say something about the law but everybody just continued talking about him against the trans ppl, about women rights.... And he realized that it’s a bigger problem than he thought it was so he continued to talk about what ever ppl wanted to talk about and even after saying repeatedly that it’s about the law and freedom of speech and how it would eventually just do more harm than good to the minority group and everyone else, all left extremists opposed him even harder bc finally, someone we can attack on a tv! Personal chaos and simplified world is not how a healthy world should look like!

So... If ppl want to go to his meetings and listen to his lectures about ‘cleaning their rooms’ and to buy his book, i see no prob i that. I’m glad he stood up bc he somehow managed to slowed down the totalitarian machine that’s been waiting around the corner. So, he’s probably still relevant bc he still represents that fight against oppression and against silent totalitarian tricks in a modern democracies. He still represents freedom of speech, that we need more than ever today! And we now talk more openly than ever about stigmatizations of minorities and related problems in our societies. We need more of that! Not less! 

Sounds lame and I zoned out while reading this midway so I'm not sure if I grasped it all

No offence, by the way, but there are more fun things to engage with, I think, than Jordan Peterson. I'm more sure about that now than ever before

 

48 minutes ago, Cryptowen said:

literally every marxist i know irl hates foucault's guts, because they view him as a prime of example of that french bullshit the CIA used to distract the left back in the 60s

If Canadian Marxists are anything like your presumed far-right intellectuals that doesn't surprise me

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2 minutes ago, dcom said:

Yeah, then there's the bit about a female patient having problems with drunken promiscuity - Peterson writes for a considerable length what he would've wanted to say to the patient, really, really nasty misogynistic drivel. I got really angry reading it, it's nearer the end of the book and I almost threw it out the window because WTF, man, why don't you tell us what you really think about the boozy whore who's paying you to help her?

Can you give a sample of what he wanted to say to her? (Now

im really interested lol)

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15 minutes ago, dcom said:

Because it was repeated twice unchanged - that's not a simple question but a demand. Then again, I brought them up in a dismissive context to ridicule their simplicity, coming from an erudite but at time obtuse clinical psychologist. Anyway, I read the book, it was mostly bland but at times really horrible - e.g. Peterson makes his life choices exemplary in comparison to a childhood friend who makes a lot of bad choices - the superiority of Peterson's way of life is validated by his friend not having the same grit and discipline - but there's more self-righteous nastiness in there.

yeah because u didnt answer it

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13 minutes ago, dingformung said:

Sounds lame and I zoned out while reading this midway so I'm not sure if I grasped it all

No offence, by the way, but there are more fun things to engage with, I think, than Jordan Peterson. I'm more sure about that now than ever before

 

 

Lol I didn’t said he should be relevant to you! I said he’s relevant to some other ppl which never thought about the subject 

he was big at the time so i read about him to see what’s going on. You asked me! I told you and you act like that?! 😛

Edited by xox
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36 minutes ago, dcom said:

Are you serious in claiming that clinically depressed people need to be told to clean their room and stand up straight? I'm neurodivergent with Asperger's and type II bipolar disorder - based on my personal, in-depth experience on depression that would feel like an insult, a dismissal by simplicity. Yes, it can have a positive effect in some cases and some people, but to a truly, deeply depressed person it's belittling.

yes. its a very simple thing but there are no negatives to it. im failing to see the issue

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