2020 US Election

[joshuatxuk]

49 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

This might be a reason more liberals should be in favor of the 2nd Amendment.  I've been warming up to it lately.  It's the only way to defend yourself against a rogue executive branch.  Even the legislature + judiciary can't overpower the executive, so citizens would have to in that scenario and it would be their constitutional duty to do so

Yeah same here. Others are, Redneck Revolt is a good example. This one popped up recently. In fact hard leftists are pretty cynical about gun control and often very pro-gun. Lately Hunter S Thompson's affinity for guns and radical politics makes more sense than ever.

I was taken aback when I saw some on here disappointed that Killer Mike did an interview with NRA and was openly pro-gun. If any communities in the US are entitled to be overtly pro-2nd Amendment it's people of color. Some of the earliest gun control laws were actually conservative lead efforts in the 60s and 70s in response to the Black Panthers and the American Indian Movement arming themselves.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmtADPtyZgE

County sheriffs and regional cops especially can get pretty sketchy. Austin's PD and Travis County is day and night versus Williamson County to the north (Leander, Round Rock, Georgetown, etc) which is bootlicker country and knee-deep in private prison cronyism. Big city cops on the other hand are more complicit than anything, the tolerance of intolerance paradox is often in full force at KKK and white nationalist rallies, where cops are sent in to protect far right agitator "marchers / activists" with permits and end up arresting and beating up counter protesters. 

There won't be a clear cut civil war or some shit, if something does go down there will be pockets of rogue militias and vigilante attacks and stuff like that. Right-wing nuts simply their hypothetical "left vs right" fantasies about this in embarrassingly absurd scenarios of states like Texas breaking off or cities decaying in chaos while rural gun nuts "win out." Reality is reflected in messy conflicts like the Spanish Civil War, the Balkan wars, East Ukraine, etc. A lot of Americans don't understand just how nuanced and convoluted the American Civil War was, especially in the various regional wars and skirmishes beforehand. There was never any homogeneous Union vs Confederate entity in terms of populace and geography. Towns and even families literally took arms against each other. Most civil wars and sectarian wars are like that. It's godawful.

[joshuatxuk]

10 hours ago, Braintree said:

I'm seeing a trend in this thread that a lot of you think that Trump will win because the "common American" is more right leaning than most. Let me remind you guys that HRC won the popular vote in 2016. Trump won because of gerrymandering and how the electoral college works. His base is not the "common American."

Democrats took the house back last year, and I think there's a lot of momentum there. As long as Democrats show up to vote, we have a good chance at winning.

This. It's not the population and common person that's fucking up everything, it's the institutions. The GOP has won states they are literally worsening on every level (Kansas, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin are good examples) mostly through superficial economic platforms, identity politics, and consistent rhetoric that encourages apathy and voter disengagement. Legally they've chipped away at voter rights and democratic redistricting methods. They have completely eliminated any substantive regulations and limits on dark money and corporate donations.

The reason Trump triggers so many comparisons to dictatorships, despots, and authoritarianism stems from the fact that so many democracies have literally drifted into such states without any major violent revolution or civil war, and often in alarming turnarounds. The Nazis won by calling themselves "socialists" and pulling votes from the divided left-wing majority. Brazil's right-wing technocrats and elites have literally thrown left leaders in jails and ushered in a budding right-wing regime through a technically legal and clear cut democratic election. 

It's going to be a long election cycle but I'm hopeful. I have co-workers who didn't vote in the past and/or thought leaned Republican who are very receptive to progressive policies. The 2018 election results in Texas were far less dire than I ever expected - seats were flipped, margins were historically closse, and I was shocked how many of the well-funded "Empower Texas" far-right candidates lost. There's a lot of people truly turned off by Trump and if there's any silver lining it's that people are actually giving a shit now. 

[ambermonk]

1 hour ago, Zeffolia said:

This might be a reason more liberals should be in favor of the 2nd Amendment.  I've been warming up to it lately.  It's the only way to defend yourself against a rogue executive branch.  Even the legislature + judiciary can't overpower the executive, so citizens would have to in that scenario and it would be their constitutional duty to do so

I already have two guns. But I've been keeping them locked up for the past 8 months and only see myself using them on paper targets at the range. One of them is underpowered, and the other is overpowered for a hypothetical armed insurrection, which TBH I don't see particularly likely to ever materialize in my locale - despite the fact that nearly everyone in my state is packing.

The reason I have guns in the first place were as a family inheritance, and I'm holding them for safekeeping basically.

[zlemflolia]

I love you Bernard

[MadellisTheSixth]

y'all all a bunch of fucking centrists

[zlemflolia]

Why don't any Democratic Presidential candidates come out and choose, as a Vice President, one of the other candidates on stage?  Is it too soon and strategically a bad idea?  Or would it cement the campaign as more serious and prepared?

Edited August 3, 2019 by Zeffolia

[Braintree]

3 hours ago, MadellisTheSixth said:

y'all all a bunch of fucking centrists

y'all a y'allin y'allaholicin' y'all a y'allahol

[goDel]

6 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

Why don't any Democratic Presidential candidates come out and choose, as a Vice President, one of the other candidates on stage?  Is it too soon and strategically a bad idea?  Or would it cement the campaign as more serious and prepared?

Too soon

[zlemflolia]

bernie went on Joe Rogan today:

 

 

[T3551ER]

Thanks Zef- just watched a bit of this. Never watched Joe Rogan's show (in my mind he has always kind of been "that dude from Fear Factor). He. . . actually seems like an intelligent and perceptive interviewer? Who knew? 

[zlemflolia]

Yeah he's pretty good but he can be a dumbass especially when he has on dumbass guests.  He has a bad habit of "becoming" whoever he's interviewing, at the same time it's good for extracting information from the interviewee.

[goDel]

Just came across this. Curious to hear what the Bernie supporters think.

 

[Enthusiast]

He voted against the watered down version the house passed. He voted in favor of the stronger version previously proposed by the senate.

[user]

Another thread about us politics is just what this forum needs.  

[dingformung]

On 8/2/2019 at 3:47 AM, Zeffolia said:

This might be a reason more liberals should be in favor of the 2nd Amendment.  I've been warming up to it lately.  It's the only way to defend yourself against a rogue executive branch.  Even the legislature + judiciary can't overpower the executive, so citizens would have to in that scenario and it would be their constitutional duty to do so

Left-liberals who buy weapons support an industry that is very right leaning politically or at least caters to a mostly right-wing customer base. I don't think that this is a good idea. Also this whole paranoia of an imminent civil war is pretty wild

Edited August 14, 2019 by darreichungsform

[Blir]

Very much enjoyed the Rogan podcast with Sanders. Everything he says seems to make sense, doesn't it? I can't think of a more credible and human candidate right now. Smart move to go on Rogan too, he's got a fair few right leaning listeners I hope will be given pause for thought as a result.

Please die, Trump.

[may be rude]

i like to hype warren because i love her so much but i have to admit that bernie is still very solid

 

 

[eczem]

On 8/15/2019 at 7:05 AM, Blir said:

Very much enjoyed the Rogan podcast with Sanders. Everything he says seems to make sense, doesn't it? I can't think of a more credible and human candidate right now. Smart move to go on Rogan too, he's got a fair few right leaning listeners I hope will be given pause for thought as a result.

Please die, Trump.

Likewise.... was ignoring politics for a while and that interview got me a little motivated.

[EdamAnchorman]

On 8/1/2019 at 2:09 AM, goDel said:

Btw, I trust on the primaries producing the best candidate to run against Trump. Simply because it's a numbers game. The one who convinced the most people to support him/her, is the best. Biggest support in the primaries will likely lead to the biggest support in the general. Sure, there are always black swan scenarios. But I'm really not interested in getting my head around all possible and unlikely scenarios.

I don't have numbers to back me up here, but the problem I see is that many of the so-called "swing voters" don't vote in primaries, and then complain that they're having to pick between the lesser of two evils.  I wonder how many people voting in primaries are just hard-line left or right and are just voting for the most recognizable name in their party.  I would like to see numbers of total voter turnout in primaries vs. general elections; I'm sure they're out there I just can't be arsed to look them up.  IMO, the primaries are more important than the general election.

I voted Dem in 2016 but not for HRC (wrote-in Sanders).  I wanted to give the DNC a "fuck you" for what they were doing and still continue to do in terms of keeping the status quo and satisfying the corporate donors over their actual constituents.  They got what they deserved, although I think they didn't learn their lesson or, more likely, they don't care and are being more careful about keeping the status quo while trying to not lose again.  At least the Republicans actually serve their constituency (the wealthy ones, they've managed to trick many of the poor into voting Republican).  I do not regret my vote, and I will do the same in 2020.  I refuse to perpetuate the status quo for the Dems just to get Trump out; in my eyes that's just as bad as if Trump wins again (which I think he will).

It's been said in this thread, but the Republicans have basically tilted things in their favor due to gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement etc., while Dems are just not willing to play that dirty, or don't know how to.  We'll have to reach a tipping point at some point in time, I just hope it's soon.

[markedone]

10 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

I don't have numbers to back me up here, but the problem I see is that many of the so-called "swing voters" don't vote in primaries, and then complain that they're having to pick between the lesser of two evils.  I wonder how many people voting in primaries are just hard-line left or right and are just voting for the most recognizable name in their party.  I would like to see numbers of total voter turnout in primaries vs. general elections; I'm sure they're out there I just can't be arsed to look them up.  IMO, the primaries are more important than the general election.

i disagree with the second half of your post. imo any dem is better than this shit and its an ignorant and priveledged position to say "they" deserve what happened if you are relatively well off and insulated from the policy ramifications

but your point on primaries is a good point.  especially with all states having different rules, i imagine many get lost in the cracks (in addition to ignoring independents as you say).  I had just moved to a new state at that time in 2016 and couldnt navigate their bureaucracy (reregistering new address adn party membership) in time to vote in the primary, which was a bummer

Edited August 19, 2019 by markedone

[zlemflolia]

https://berniesanders.com/justice-and-safety-for-all/

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Zeffolia

[EdamAnchorman]

1 hour ago, markedone said:

i disagree with the second half of your post. imo any dem is better than this shit and its an ignorant and priveledged position to say "they" deserve what happened if you are relatively well off and insulated from the policy ramifications

Sorry if it was unclear, but by "they" I meant the DNC establishment.  I am all for helping as many people as possible, but I also believe that keeping up this charade that the Dems have become will bring more hurt than good.  I did what I did because I felt that the only way for the Dems to really change is for me and enough people to no longer buy into their bullshit.

Your other point is spot-on, I am very lucky (and unlucky, it's a long story) to be in a position where I would probably be relatively insulated from bad policy ramifications (up to a point of course, who knows what these crazy policy changes will really do), but my vote was given from my perspective, and I believe that it would ultimately help those less fortunate for the Dems to quit their BS and actually focus on getting back to doing things that can actually help those less fortunate people.  It is unlikely that it will happen, IMO, but I'm just doing what I think is best from my point of view.  I'm sure my attitude would be different if I wasn't in such a position.

Edited August 19, 2019 by randomsummer

[Nebraska]

Quote

WASHINGTON (CNN)Joe Biden has expanded his edge over the Democratic field in a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS, with 29% of Democratic and Democratic-leaning registered voters saying they back the former vice president.

That's up 7 points compared with a late June CNN survey. No other candidate has made meaningful gains over that time.

The shift returns Biden to a double-digit lead over his nearest competitors, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders at 15% and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren at 14%. Their support is largely unchanged since earlier this summer.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/20/politics/cnn-poll-democrats-2020-biden-rebound/index.html

how the democrats lost the 2020 presidential primary and other stories

[goDel]

Looks like typical clickbait journalism. A single poll is not a story.

[chenGOD]

The poll cited polled 402 Democrats/democrat-leaning independents and had a margin of error of +/- 6.1%

It's a bullshit poll, and terrible reporting by CNN.

And all I can think of is: this guarantees another 4 fucking years of Trump.