Jump to content
Zeffolia

2020 Democratic Presidential Primary

Recommended Posts

 

i listened to an interview with noam chomsky recently where he said bernie is going to get some serious attacks from both the established democrats (and the media) and the republicans. things are about to get bumpy unless those undecided voters switch over to pete or klobuchar.

would also be nice of goddess williamson endorses bernie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure he said that as Noam cannot be understood with the human ear. 

 

If Bernie wins he better do a damn good job or we are going to end up with a Carter thing and maybe an even more extreme republican swing the other way. It would be great if Bernie won but he won't get much done with the gridlock we have

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

is it over yet? 

south carolina is kinda the true test though.  maybe nevada but more so south carolina. 

it could come down to bloomberg and bernie. hard to see how boot edge edge can get support in south carolina.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, marf said:

Are you sure he said that as Noam cannot be understood with the human ear. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bernie sanders is unstoppable

he won Iowa in terms of popular vote

he won New Hampshire

hes going to win Nevada

hes going to win South Carolina

hes going to beat Trump

hes going to be President

  • Like 3
  • Burger 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't blame Noam for his pessimism since he has seen a million conservative democrats and republicans take office since the 30s. If I were constantly let down for over 90 years I would be very wary as well. IDK if Bernie could beat Trump if he gets nominated, but I do know for sure that he would do better than pretty much every other democrat gunning for the presidency.

If he does get nominated, then I am curious to see how the "liberal media" will turn on him. I REALLY hope I'm dead wrong about that, but I just can't imagine the likes of CNN getting behind Bernie, ever. If they do then my mind will be blown. The only incentive for them I can think of to get behind Bernie, is that many  corporate democrats will get seats in the house/senate/whatever.

Edited by Brisbot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

bernie sanders is unstoppable

he won Iowa in terms of popular vote

he won New Hampshire

hes going to win Nevada

hes going to win South Carolina

hes going to beat Trump

hes going to be President

source.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Brisbot said:

I can't blame Noam for his pessimism since he has seen a million conservative democrats and republicans take office since the 30s. If I were constantly let down for over 90 years I would be very wary as well. IDK if Bernie could beat Trump if he gets nominated, but I do know for sure that he would do better than pretty much every other democrat gunning for the presidency.

If he does get nominated, then I am curious to see how the "liberal media" will turn on him. I REALLY hope I'm dead wrong about that, but I just can't imagine the likes of CNN getting behind Bernie, ever. If they do then my mind will be blown. The only incentive for them I can think of to get behind Bernie, is that many  corporate democrats will get seats in the house/senate/whatever.

cnn has been trashing bernard all day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zeffolia said:

cnn has been trashing bernard all day

oh yeah I know. I mean I haven't seen any of it, but I already know. It's basically something that can go unsaid now. Fox News appeals to conservatives, and CNN pretends to be liberal. They only time they have treated him well is in the interim between his campaigns.

But during its: "Why would you vote for a million year old socialist? Did you know that socialism killed lots of people in country X, Y, and Z? Also, He so ugly. And since when is policy important in an election? *SIGH* wish we could find a centrist with the charisma of President Obama to latch onto..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Brisbot said:

oh yeah I know. I mean I haven't seen any of it, but I already know. It's basically something that can go unsaid now. Fox News appeals to conservatives, and CNN pretends to be liberal. They only time they have treated him well is in the interim between his campaigns.

But during its: "Why would you vote for a million year old socialist? Did you know that socialism killed lots of people in country X, Y, and Z? Also, He so ugly. And since when is policy important in an election? *SIGH* wish we could find a centrist with the charisma of President Obama to latch onto..."

no cnn is liberal. thats why they hate bernard.  liberals are petite bourgeois reactionaries

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zeffolia said:

no cnn is liberal. thats why they hate bernard.  liberals are petite bourgeois reactionaries

Well I just think of that as "American Liberalism". But are centrists/borderline conservative in other first world countries. TBH it's probably not helpful to use all these labels since they mean very different things to different people. I think of them as conservatives because to me they are to the right of me by a decent amount. But Republicans in Texas think CNN pushes socialism, which is laughable.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some interesting numbers here. (grabbed from 538)

Quote

Sanders carried 63 percent of his own 2016 supporters — but they didn’t turn out in as large numbers as last time. In contrast, Klobuchar and Buttigieg did well both among 2016 Clinton supporters and among those who supported neither candidate four years ago. Also notable: Gabbard’s (relatively) strong finish among those who supported neither Clinton nor Sanders in 2016.

Candidate preference by previous vote

Chosen candidate in the 2020 New Hampshire Democratic primary by their 2016 vote, according to preliminary exit poll data

CANDIDATE HILLARY CLINTON (49% OF VOTERS) BERNIE SANDERS (30%) NEITHER OF THESE CANDIDATES (19%)
Klobuchar 26% 8% 25%
Buttigieg 24 15 26
Biden 15 2 2
Sanders 14 63 12
Warren 13 4 4
Steyer 3 2 6
Yang 3 4 7
Gabbard 0 2 13

Sample size is 2,935. Not all candidates are listed on the exit poll.

SOURCE: ABC NEWS/EDISON RESEARCH

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Brisbot said:

Well I just think of that as "American Liberalism". But are centrists/borderline conservative in other first world countries. TBH it's probably not helpful to use all these labels since they mean very different things to different people. I think of them as conservatives because to me they are to the right of me by a decent amount. But Republicans in Texas think CNN pushes socialism, which is laughable.

Yeah it's taken Trump to realize just how American liberals / mainstream Dems are complicit centrists. Last 40 years has been Dems slipping into center-right Neo-Liberalism and Reagan onward the GOP has become a far right populist party, something Trump overtly took the mask off. 

7 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

cnn has been trashing bernard all day

MSNBC too. NPR's been very soft on Trump for years now as well and really embraced the whole "we must hear both sides" ethos that's normalizing right-wing misinformation. It's starting to backfire...

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's already obvious which candidate I support the most, but I'm still saddened by Andrew Yang suspending his campaign. But it's understandable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, marf said:

If Bernie wins he better do a damn good job or we are going to end up with a Carter thing and maybe an even more extreme republican swing the other way. It would be great if Bernie won but he won't get much done with the gridlock we have

It's going to be grueling. It won't be Carter again. Carter was similar to Obama - inherited a mess from GOP predecessors and leaned heavily on insiders and establishment policies despite being an earnest person and running as a progressive outsider. Obama's was much more of an overt turn - the bailouts, the continuation of the fundamental hegemony and endless realpolitik of the War On Terror.

There's a very real chance Sanders will break the Democratic party by breaking their de facto centrist strategy that's been in place for over 40 years.  If he doesn't get the nomination they will implode and become the Whig equivalent of the 21st century, with him leading DSA and breakaway left Dems and the rest existing as a centrist rump party. If he does win and when he beats Trump he will for the first time since FDR (and lesser degree LBJ) present a truly hardline left-progressive populist agenda. It will force moderate leaning Dems to comply and flush out the ones who are centrists or Republican lite. 

The Republicans are already extreme. They lie and actively enact policies that harm their own base. They had normalized dog-whistling to fascists and white supremacists. They have openly embrace anti-conservative policies of high deficient spending, reckless and exhaustive government corruption, and overtly embracing social conservative and discriminatory rhetoric via judicial appointments, gutting existing laws, etc. They will relentlessly and shamelessly try to stop every single act of Sanders and the Democratic party but unlike Obama or Clinton or Carter they will not be getting away with it easily. Sanders won't come in with already compromised, watered-down policies that are easy to deride and defeat. Instead the GOP will be called out for openly opposing truly popular efforts like medicare for all, tax reform, anti-corruption, etc. Efforts like green energy and anti-war policies can be touted without all of the usual veneer of corporate synergy or private industry involvement. Obama caved in on so much, was roadblocked post-2010 elections and STILL got some key things accomplished. I'm hopeful. It can't get much worst but if it does at least it'll feel worthwhile to have someone like Bernie leading a movement you can feel solidarity with, not just another lesser of two evils.

33 minutes ago, ambergonk said:

It's already obvious which candidate I support the most, but I'm still saddened by Andrew Yang suspending his campaign. But it's understandable.

The time was right but I will miss his earnestness and sincerity. A lot of his policy ideas and overall ideology was actually looking in the right directions.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The next non-trump president will have his or her hands full with getting the various government branches to function again (to get positions filled, for instance) and to get rid of some or all of the nastier Trump policies. That's about as much as you could realistically expect in the first term, imo. All these new policies are nice and all, but ...euh... there are other priorities

Medicare for all? I think we're currently back to justice for all. And getting the current system back on its feet. Even with political support for M4all, it's going to take years to implement. And until then, there needs to be something which keeps the world turning, so to speak. And that requires plenty work, regardless of the political mega performance of getting a m4all bill worked out and through congress.

You might as well read this as me saying it's not relevant which candidate wins the dem ticket. The 1st 4 years in the office will be about dealing with a severe political crisis and getting back to a "normal" situation.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if only there were a younger, sharper, savvier, more accomplished, more energetic version of bernie running for president, who isn't trying to redeem socialism, the exact ideology of public spending that makes republican voters be republican voters.

Edited by very honest
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, goDel said:

The next non-trump president will have his or her hands full with getting the various government branches to function again (to get positions filled, for instance) and to get rid of some or all of the nastier Trump policies. That's about as much as you could realistically expect in the first term, imo. All these new policies are nice and all, but ...euh... there are other priorities

i agree with this, and also it's something i've heard from some people reluctant to vote for bernie.

for them, a lot of his policies (such as medicare for all) are unrealistic because they require senate approval. they also seem too radical (or progressive) for those that either see them as causing a further divide between the two parties (eg. eliminating student debt). a lot of pete's core support is coming from moderate progressives who want to bridge the gap between republican and democrat as they see this as not just a strategy in beating trump and winning the country back- but as a realistic approach i.e. let's get trump out of office and get some policies reversed. and while doing that, let's win some right leaning support and unify the country

 bernie's current ideology seems more exclusive rather than inclusive because not only has he said he will undo everything trump did, he's even going further and replacing it with more radically progressive ideas than obama promised. that's why a lot of his most fervent support comes from a younger crowd; not the most reliable when it comes time to actually vote, but also this is the audience with nothing to loose. 

another thing that's making me temper my own perspective of this whole thing is, i'd prefer if there was a clear lead for the democratic party. right now the right can comfortably say that trump has about 80% approval. the dems are so fractured you wonder why or how they're even all in the same party

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, very honest said:

if only there were a younger, sharper, savvier, more accomplished, more energetic version of bernie running for president, who isn't trying to redeem the word socialist, the exact ideology of public spending that makes republican voters be republican voters.

I think those two criteria are fundamentally opposed to each other. I'm not sure if you are referring to Buttigieg (who is certainly not more accomplished than Sanders, but is younger) or Warren (who may be more accomplished - though that is up for debate, but is hardly much younger) - regardless, I wouldn't say either of them are much sharper. And if you're living in a world of "if only", if only Americans weren't so scared of the word socialism, you guys wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. But here you are.

Thought this was an interesting article on the "leftist" critique of Buttigeig: https://www.vox.com/2020/2/11/21129665/pete-buttigieg-2020-democratic-primary-millennials

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

I think those two criteria are fundamentally opposed to each other. I'm not sure if you are referring to Buttigieg (who is certainly not more accomplished than Sanders, but is younger) or Warren (who may be more accomplished - though that is up for debate, but is hardly much younger) - regardless, I wouldn't say either of them are much sharper. And if you're living in a world of "if only", if only Americans weren't so scared of the word socialism, you guys wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. But here you are.

Thought this was an interesting article on the "leftist" critique of Buttigeig: https://www.vox.com/2020/2/11/21129665/pete-buttigieg-2020-democratic-primary-millennials

warren. she is more accomplished and she is younger.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

the dems are so fractured you wonder why or how they're even all in the same party

theyre not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

I think those two criteria are fundamentally opposed to each other. I'm not sure if you are referring to Buttigieg (who is certainly not more accomplished than Sanders, but is younger) or Warren (who may be more accomplished - though that is up for debate, but is hardly much younger) - regardless, I wouldn't say either of them are much sharper. And if you're living in a world of "if only", if only Americans weren't so scared of the word socialism, you guys wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. But here you are.

Thought this was an interesting article on the "leftist" critique of Buttigeig: https://www.vox.com/2020/2/11/21129665/pete-buttigieg-2020-democratic-primary-millennials

buttigieg is a fucking cia shill, a corporate neolib who hates black people and bulldozes their houses, if he wins the democratic party is doomed, electoralism is doomed, and democracy is proven bullshit, on top of that he's also a fucking loser who's been planning to be president since he was 8

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/03/all-about-pete

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/02/more-about-pete

  • Like 1
  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, very honest said:

warren. she is more accomplished and she is younger.

she backs fascist CIA plant Guaido

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...