2020 US Election

[ignatius]

3 hours ago, zero said:

I think the best shot at getting any remaining swing voters to vote dem is to have a candidate who's a white, middle aged male with an honorable military background. There's of course a ton of military support in trump country, and having an ex-marine go toe-to-toe with bonespurs donnie and out "man" the great orange deceiver, I think would make some in the maga base think twice. I guess Mayor Pete would be the closest fit for this, but unfortunately there's too many folks out there that also can't get past the fact that he's gay...

gay cancels out military background for a lot of those people. 

i'll be surprised if trump agrees to any debates. 

bernie can hold his own on a debate stage especially if it's against trump. biden i don't think would do well. he's so off kilter even for a dog faced pony soldier.

[Candiru]

I like Amy Klobuchar, tbqh. Feels good to say it out loud. "Bernie or bust" people are out of their fucking minds. I saw one smarmy youtube pundit guy, Michael Brooks say if Bernie doesn't win the primary, he's not voting. LOL, so you're progressive, but Trump is your second favorite candidate? WTF?

[TubularCorporation]

Having seen the Majority Report discussion I think you're talking about, it's pretty funny how much you misrepresented it.  I find Michael Brooks pretty annoying but he's pretty outspoken about how irresponsible "vote your conscience" type rhetoric is.

[Brisbot]

I really want Sanders to win, but at the moment the votes are split between multiple candidates for both types of democrats. It's simply unclear to me what that may mean. With New Hampshire for instance, if Pete or Amy wasn't running Bernie may well have gotten second instead of first. It just depends on how many people in the Pete/Amy camp would have chosen Sanders as their second best candidate. And of course also for Elizabeth Warren.

I'm sure now the centrist democrats are being pressured to end their campaigns due to the splitting, and Pete, Amy, and Biden will quickly whittle down to just Pete (or Amy?)
 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Brisbot

[Candiru]

What's irresponsible is not realizing that getting Trump out of office is infinitely more important than just Bernie being president, and people should have realized that a long time ago. 

[Nebraska]

3 hours ago, zero said:

I guess Mayor Pete would be the closest fit for this, but unfortunately there's too many folks out there that also can't get past the fact that he's gay...

9 minutes ago, Candiru said:

I like Amy Klobuchar, tbqh. Feels good to say it out loud. "Bernie or bust" people are out of their fucking minds. I saw one smarmy youtube pundit guy, Michael Brooks say if Bernie doesn't win the primary, he's not voting. LOL, so you're progressive, but Trump is your second favorite candidate? WTF?

i kind of understand michael brooks' position. the thing is that the DNC doesn't seem to listen to voters. they want to eat their cake and have it too in that, they want to end the corruption in washington without sacrificing corruption within the party. this is why hillary was their front runner in 2016, and why they backed biden in the beginning. both of these candidates weren't who their voters wanted, yet when it comes time for the election, they suddenly need voters to play along-

in the words of mark zuckerberg: that really salts my meat

[Candiru]

I'll worry about that if and when Democrats win the next election. Until then, the rest is noise. 

[joshuatxuk]

48 minutes ago, TubularCorporation said:

Having seen the Majority Report discussion I think you're talking about, it's pretty funny how much you misrepresented it.  I find Michael Brooks pretty annoying but he's pretty outspoken about how irresponsible "vote your conscience" type rhetoric is.

Chapo Trap House is def getting more flack for pushing their fans to abstain from the general if Bernie doesn't get it. I can't commit to it. I get the sentiment to some degree but it's pretty reckless and extreme. Being a red state I'm still going to pinch my nose and vote for whatever Dem it is. If it's a hypothetically a truly off-putting candidate (a shamelessly pandering Bloomberg or Biden) I'll vote for a third party POTUS I guess - but I really think it'll be Bernie.

[joshuatxuk]

I think a lot of Bernie Bros are just really, really sick of corrupt Dems in their local elections and their state and it's a perspective I can't relate to. There's a term some far-leftists use as a criticism for vote abstaining...harm reduction. It's debated but it's a well-established concept that fleshes out the broader "vote the lesser evil" idea. https://baseandsuperstructure.com/harm-reduction-voting/

[joshuatxuk]

4 hours ago, zero said:

I think the best shot at getting any remaining swing voters to vote dem is to have a candidate who's a white, middle aged male with an honorable military background. There's of course a ton of military support in trump country, and having an ex-marine go toe-to-toe with bonespurs donnie and out "man" the great orange deceiver, I think would make some in the maga base think twice. I guess Mayor Pete would be the closest fit for this, but unfortunately there's too many folks out there that also can't get past the fact that he's gay...

Nah, these are the same people who completely shit on John McCain. This is the same base that Swift-Boating worked wonders on. They only like veterans who are overtly nationalist and right-wing and will not even blink before totally bashing not just veterans but combat veterans who are liberal. They literally worship a draft-dodging rich kid.

Ironically the gay thing would likely be a moot point in 2020, the the alt right loves tokenism and Milo is a good example of someone who was tolerated among right-wingers. 

The million dollar question is what Dems might sway "anti-Trump" conservatives who will otherwise skip the election or shrug and vote for Trump. Bloomberg seems the most likely to sway a few, since he's literally an ex-GOP moderate, but I'm very skeptical that there are significant numbers to switch from Trump to a centrist Dem. I feel like Sanders could tap into the same surge Obama brought out, even more so since Trump is a far more dire threat than 2008 era McCain. He's still polling the best against Trump. 

[ignatius]

1 hour ago, Candiru said:

I like Amy Klobuchar, tbqh. Feels good to say it out loud. "Bernie or bust" people are out of their fucking minds. I saw one smarmy youtube pundit guy, Michael Brooks say if Bernie doesn't win the primary, he's not voting. LOL, so you're progressive, but Trump is your second favorite candidate? WTF?

if bernie wins i hope he picks her as a running mate. 

[joshuatxuk]

7 hours ago, Nebraska said:

here's a great example of my above point in regards to pete. pete knows bernie's medicare for all is a radical policy- so he takes a more conservative alternative. how about medicare for all-that-want-it?

towards the end of that clip, buttigieg admits they have the same goals just different ways to approach them. he's right. bernie is trying to change the status quo; pete wants to work with it. 

 

7 hours ago, goDel said:

I hope you're right. And he sounds like a sensible guy.

I find him really frustrating - when I break off from my intake of Chapo and other leftist bubbles I skim that relentlessly and effectively rip on him and his campaign, I do find him to be one of the stronger and more articulate candidates. There's just a lot of hang-ups...

First and foremost, he's got baggage. His tenure at McKinsey & Company is ripe with overly expensive and inefficient corporate and government contract consulting work, he literally helped a Canadian grocery price fix milk, and without putting too much validity into other iffy aspects, here's a good rundown on his very establishment career there. South Bend is a like a parallel to much of the baggage Bloomberg had as NY mayor. Police in his town killed a black citizen and others beat a wrongly suspected teen and shot with a stun gun. He was awared only $18 in damages after a federal jury found the department violated his rights.  He not just tried to sweep it under the carpet for the most part, instead of putting pressure on the well-documented corruption and abuses he doubled down and literally supported "police lives matter" PR from the local police, including this. That's just police brutality, South Bend's black population has been ignored or flat out pressured to leave via gentrification efforts, city contracts to developers, and various code changes to push low income renters and owners out. He's polling very low with people of color for legitimate reasons.

If foreign policy is an issue he's got a lot of red flags that point to him being both more cryptic and hawkish than Obama. There's a conspiracy that he's a straight up CIA shrill - it's not as outlandish as it sounds but I don't think  he's some CIA plant. I do think it's all but a fact he's worked on CIA and state department missions. What he has disclosed about his service points to straight-up intel, pysch-op, and local power liason work that is core to special operations and espionage work. McKinsey & Company has historically been tied to civillian shell companies and stuff like US Aid contracts which have been essential to brokering alliances in countries the U.S. operates military forces and intel ops out of. He literally visited the Horn of Africa breakaway state Somaliland in 2008 for an extended vacation - the same year the US was scrambling for proxy bases and agreements for war on terror ops in that region. 

Then there's his persona and vibe. He's a bit stiff and aloof and let's be frank, his rhetoric is often cringe-y in it's vagueness. Off the cuff he sounds like an AI speech generator using Obama speeches. I really think he's a well-meaning guy but, and this fucking sucks to acknowledge, that fact is why he'd be decimated by Trump and his supporters. He'll endlessly make fun of his appearance and tone, def give him various nicknames, he'll  belittle his military service, he'll hypocritically but effectively point out his financial backing from billionaire donors and relish in the conspiracy theories about his CIA ties via "deep state" buzzwords. He'll gladly "debate him" and give him the "Jeb is a mess treatment." It'll be really, really disheartening and brutal. 

[joshuatxuk]

21 minutes ago, ignatius said:

if bernie wins i hope he picks her as a running mate. 

She's got BDE and experience. There's documented claims she's shitty toward staffers but I have no idea how many are true versus vs exaggeratef or false. Also pragmatically a lot of effective leaders are hard ass managers. I honestly find the salad comb story hilarious, like something out of an Curb episode.

[auxien]

26 minutes ago, ignatius said:

if bernie wins i hope he picks her as a running mate. 

makes me think of something i haven’t before: who would his running mate even be, assuming he got the nomination? AOC??!?!?  lol but really tho, not really sure, he’s sorta an island to himself (ya know since he’s not even a fuckin Democrat)

[ignatius]

9 minutes ago, auxien said:

makes me think of something i haven’t before: who would his running mate even be, assuming he got the nomination? AOC??!?!?  lol but really tho, not really sure, he’s sorta an island to himself (ya know since he’s not even a fuckin Democrat)

i'm not very familiar with hw the process goes for picking a running mate. seems like often they find someone who will round out the qualifications and provide a touch of diversity of ideas too. 

[joshuatxuk]

26 minutes ago, auxien said:

makes me think of something i haven’t before: who would his running mate even be, assuming he got the nomination? AOC??!?!?  lol but really tho, not really sure, he’s sorta an island to himself (ya know since he’s not even a fuckin Democrat)

Nah, she's got way too many years ahead of her and an election coming up with a lot of ire and money being thrown behind some pawns to get her out of office. She's younger than me and many others here. 

Good question though, pre-fallout from the debate many expected him to float Warren as either a VP or major cabinet slot. He urged her to run in 2016 after all. 

[TubularCorporation]

Oh hey, it just coincidentally happened that I was listening to today's M.R. news recap adn Michael Brooks explicitly called the possibility of a real "Bernie or bust" movement in the general election "disastrous."

[ignatius]

5 minutes ago, TubularCorporation said:

Oh hey, it just coincidentally happened that I was listening to today's M.R. news recap adn Michael Brooks explicitly called the possibility of a real "Bernie or bust" movement in the general election "disastrous."

i can't listen to that.. not right now.. too much anxiety too soon. bernie will have to come out and campaign relentlessly for whoever gets the nomination if it isn't him. 

[zlemflolia]

Bernie 2020

Bernie 2024

AOC 2028

[markedone]

53 minutes ago, joshuatxuk said:

Nah, she's got way too many years ahead of her and an election coming up with a lot of ire and money being thrown behind some pawns to get her out of office. She's younger than me and many others here. 

Good question though, pre-fallout from the debate many expected him to float Warren as either a VP or major cabinet slot. He urged her to run in 2016 after all. 

sanders-warren ticket would still make the most sense, i'd like to think if he can lock down the nomination theyd get over that incident (since it doesnt seem to have impacted how the cards are falling) and join forces.  the other centrist candidates still in the running would be a definite no as his potential vp.. maybe he could pick someone who already dropped out like booker or castro.. but im not sure how much they overlap in policy.

[ignatius]

5 minutes ago, markedone said:

sanders-warren ticket would still make the most sense, i'd like to think if he can lock down the nomination theyd get over that incident (since it doesnt seem to have impacted how the cards are falling) and join forces.  the other centrist candidates still in the running would be a definite no as his potential vp.. maybe he could pick someone who already dropped out like booker or castro.. but im not sure how much they overlap in policy.

yeah.. it's hard to say. they could certainly out think themselves. i think a warren sanders ticket would be good. it's kind of what people thought from the start "just join forces already and get it overwith"

a more centrist VP choice could calm some of the insane dem old schoolers but seems like pandering wouldn't be the thing to do if he gets the nomination

[Nebraska]

5 hours ago, Candiru said:

What's irresponsible is not realizing that getting Trump out of office is infinitely more important than just Bernie being president, and people should have realized that a long time ago. 

i find it interesting that trump, the guy who is constantly thinking only about himself, has managed to turn this election about him. we're no longer focused on who would make a great president but rather who would beat trump.

btw: this isn't to single you out candiru. elizabeth warren actually said something similar in her speech after the new hampshire results came in 

the next thing i find interesting is that most of the democrats don't know how to beat trump- mainly because they're establishment politicians. trump is not. and that's why (so far) all the establishment tactics democrats have employed (comey, impeachment, etc) have failed. 

of course i could be wrong, but i have a very good feeling i'm not. otherwise, it wouldn't be such a complicated business about who should go against trump and instead, a matter who should be in what office this time next year.

[Candiru]

4 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

i find it interesting that trump, the guy who is constantly thinking only about himself, has managed to turn this election about him. we're no longer focused on who would make a great president but rather who would beat trump.

btw: this isn't to single you out candiru. elizabeth warren actually said something similar in her speech after the new hampshire results came in 

the next thing i find interesting is that most of the democrats don't know how to beat trump- mainly because they're establishment politicians. trump is not. and that's why (so far) all the establishment tactics democrats have employed (comey, impeachment, etc) have failed. 

of course i could be wrong, but i have a very good feeling i'm not. otherwise, it wouldn't be such a complicated business about who should go against trump and instead, a matter who should be in what office this time next year.

Not beating him would be such a disaster, that it's better to just win, and then stay politically engaged with a much more cooperative environment. 

[chenGOD]

4 hours ago, joshuatxuk said:

he literally helped a Canadian grocery price fix milk

Just biked in to say it was bread, not milk. Canada doesn't need any help in fixing the price of milk.

 

[Brisbot]

6 hours ago, Nebraska said:

 

Both have that reptilian look don't they :3. I wonder how many hours they practiced those smiles to emulate hoomans