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12 hours ago, goDel said:

Whether or not you agree with this ( Sanders not suitable for general election), is a discussion in and of itself. And one which I would rather stay away from. I think the discussion should be more about the blatant influence money has on US politics. As Bloomberg is basically a billionaire trying to use his money to influence US politics. Even if you agree with the outcome ( eg.: he pushed millions into getting dems to win seats in the House in 2018), the method has little to do with democracy, imo.

It is yet another example of the uber rich using their money to move the political landscape in one direction, or another. The fact this is considered legal is just way beyond me. Bloomberg, like Trump, is another symptom of the sickness that US democracy is currently in. Even if I agree with Bloomberg on Trump, and possibly even Sanders, this just shouldn't be possible. If this is "freedom of speech", you can count me out. Buying elections is the opposite.

This at the heart of what bothers me about Bloomberg and his support. It's so goddamn overt to compared to other establishment Dems and Republicans in the past. Even though I think "I'll vote for Trump over Bloomberg" hot take is wrong, I get the anger and fuck it attitude behind it. Bloomberg vs Trump actually makes that rather superficial "Douche and Turd" South Park episode from 2008 relevant. This hypothetical choice is that absurdly anti-democratic and disingenuous, especially compared to previous presidential elections.

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debate tonight's been interesting, actually. Warren ripped into Bloomberg's shittiness right away, and kept at it all night tearing into others on their records as well. Sanders looked pretty good, but he was getting some heat from every angle. Buttigieg and Klobuchar did alright but idk that they have a path forward. will be curious what happens with Bloomberg after tonight, he seemed like he was in over his head for a good chunk of it all...almost like he's a rich asshole who's been a rich asshole for so long that he's forgotten what it's like when people attack him and he can't just fire them or walk away (wouldn't surprise me if he ran away and quit the race relatively soon tbh)

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I tried watching it but caught the following:
Biden being given (and taking up) a large portion of time to basically say he's the only person who can beat Donald Trump because trump hates him and mitch is "a thorn in his backside"

liz Warren telling him he's wrong much to Biden unraveling.

Klobuchar vs Buttigieg on who's the better democrat. Each ended thinking they won, and both ended up being wrong.

stopped watching then. there's too many people on stage and it's kind of a mess


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Sanders is generally looking good in most States (haven't looked at every state or anything). However I wonder how much that will change as more and more people drop out of the race. I wonder how much the centrist DEM's voter base is spread out among what.. like 5 people, vs Sanders being spread out with Warren? I worry that Bloomberg would have a higher voter percentage if Biden, Peat Bog Pete, and Klo-whatvs dropped out. I imagine some would be Sanders supporters are in the centrist camp, however there is a weird cognitive dissonance for people who have Sanders as their second pick below Pete or Biden, etc. 

IF Bloomberg wins that will show that money in politics is that powerful of a force and how brute forcing name recognition is (probably) best way to win office in our screwed up political system. And even tho 90% of people are against money in politics, it ain't going anywhere, anytime soon.

Edited by Brisbot
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The septuagenarian age of most of the serious candidates is a turn off from an external observer. I like to feel that I can vote for someone without worrying whether they'll live out their 4 or 8 year stint. 45-65 on gaining office feels ideal, and more likely to be in touch with the issues affecting the majority of the population.

Edited by Roo
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10 minutes ago, Roo said:

The septuagenarian age of most of the serious candidates is a turn off from an external observer. I like to feel that I can vote for someone without worrying whether they'll live out their 4 or 8 year stint. 45-65 feels ideal, and more likely to be in touch with the issues affecting the majority of the population.

I get that, though it's a really bad point from these people if they agree with Sanders but think he's too old so they go vote for a centrist. I'm pretty sure Sanders is willing to you know, "pass away" in office assuming he gets elected. Secondly I'm sure he will pick a good vice president to take up the reigns if something bad happens.

It's actually kinda sad that he has to run, showing that there is no politician that can quite take his place (yet). I'm sure many will start popping up in the next 10 to 20 years.

Edited by Brisbot
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Every candidate except one said they want to override the will of the people and have superdelegates decide the nominee.  It should be clear to you who they all are opposing, why they're opposing him, what they have to lose, and what the country and humanity have to lose.  If you aren't on board, you need to stop being a fucking lib.  That's it

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1 minute ago, Zeffolia said:

Yeah they did they went around the podiums and everyone except one said it.

i saw. you obviously didn't understand either the question or the answers they all gave.

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15 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

Every candidate except one said they want to override the will of the people and have superdelegates decide the nominee.  It should be clear to you who they all are opposing, why they're opposing him, what they have to lose, and what the country and humanity have to lose.  If you aren't on board, you need to stop being a fucking lib.  That's it

 Yeah it's pretty obvious that they're not particularly liberal. Though for many people who get their news from CNN or NYT, they're basically stuck thinking they're an unbiased authority when it comes to politics. I used to think were perfectly acceptable news outlets until I found out all the little ways they can skew opinion. They don't necessarily lie, and most of their non-political articles are totally fine. But they are 100% pushing that cliche centrist belief.

They are very good at insinuating something that isn't true as true, or misleading by picking and choosing what they show (so they don't outright lie and get in trouble).

"Some people say that Sanders wants to gut Obamacare and take away peoples current private insurance. What about the people who want to have a "choice"! 

Some people say that Sanders sympathizes with *insert well known past authoritarian socialist , or  "poor socialist" country here, even if there are plenty of poor capitalist countries but w/e*.

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10 minutes ago, auxien said:

i saw. you obviously didn't understand either the question or the answers they all gave.

illuminate me then on the wisdom of the losing candidates' explanations for why the frontrunner should not be awarded the nomination

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9 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

illuminate me then on the wisdom of the losing candidates' explanations for why the frontrunner should not be awarded the nomination

listen to what they actually said, the words that came out of their mouth, not your biased spin on those words, and read for yourself how these things are handled:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_convention

if you wanna be the nominee for the Democratic Party then you have to play by their rules. if you don't like those rules, go to another party, or make your own. this is very, very simple.

Edited by auxien
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54 minutes ago, auxien said:

listen to what they actually said, the words that came out of their mouth, not your biased spin on those words, and read for yourself how these things are handled:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_convention

if you wanna be the nominee for the Democratic Party then you have to play by their rules. if you don't like those rules, go to another party, or make your own. this is very, very simple.

You think this refutes anything I said, how? I don't give a fuck about the Democratic Party's rules.  There is no other party, you are aware the US has an effective two-party system?

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good debate last night. i was cracking up the whole time. the knives were out.

 

what i've liked about warren for years is how she will viciously call people out, when appropriate, impressively well. she also has, overall, been trying to focus on running a positive campaign. that makes sense, strategically, but last night she knew that it was time to show people what she could do to an opponent, because voters want to nominate someone who will beat trump. and that is one of the reasons why warren is the best candidate, she will give you a mental breakdown on stage. she lit into bloomberg effectively and was landing strikes on the others as well. 

 

pete looked good. biden, too. bernie had good moments. klobuchar took damage. bloomberg looked bad.

 

full debate:

 

 

Edited by very honest
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