2020 US Election

[YangYing]

Just now, zero said:

maybe he should win 2020 so we can get this over with

this a v privileged position to have just sayn'

[Salvatorin]

i want the star wars prequels moment when the republic officially transitions into an empire, with jar jar binks and shit

[dingformung]

Star Wars is gay

[Salvatorin]

truth.

you hear that, farr? star wars is GAY

[may be rude]

6 minutes ago, Salvatorin said:

i want the star wars prequels moment when the republic officially transitions into an empire, with jar jar binks and shit

 

bill maher says we're already fucked and trump won't step down

 

 

[Brisbot]

33 minutes ago, MIXL2 said:

this a v privileged position to have just sayn'

Same reason upper middle class to upper class people tend to vote conservative. They have a lot of money, so whoever is in political power must be the best candidate for them. Trump, Bush ,etc.

20 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

Star Wars is gay

It's true, I once walked in on Star Wars and Star Trek sleeping together

[Salvatorin]

gay

[dingformung]

That's homophobic!

[Salvatorin]

ur gay

[dingformung]

no ur gay

[Salvatorin]

no...actually u r

[dingformung]

fuck u, u r

[zlemflolia]

2 hours ago, Salvatorin said:

disclaimer: i am an idiot, but okay let's do this. *takes off mickey mouse gloves*

to quote a wise poster who i shall not name out of respect, 

i've started to feel a sense of dread about what seems to me will be the inevitable pop of the 'optimism' bubble that has been inflated by recent gains in county and state politics for progressives. despite approving, as a matter of principle, in the kind of no-nonsense goal-oriented ethos and strategy that some of the 'insurgent left' have adopted (note- i'm talking about methods, not necessarily their particular agenda). i think they have deluded themselves into thinking that this 'wave' can possibly face up against the established order in federal politics. i think they've duped themselves into believing in the possibility of electoral reform on a federal level, and with that the implementation of any of the large-scale programs they are promising.

i've started to bristle at the tenor of Bernie's campaign with its teary-eyed sentimentalism and assurances of change. there are very clear differences, but i see parallels to Obama's 2008 presidential campaign—this time playing out in a field with a widened 'overton window'. except the economy has not entered a crisis (yet) and as much as the demand for change on the ground from the electorate may seem real at town halls and such, in the broader public (as far as i can perceive), the pressure to meaningfully influence DC politics simply does not exist yet. i fundamentally agree with 'refusing to play ball', but the progressives do not have the leverage they are claiming, therefore, — "if Bernie wins he has already lost"— and the implications for US politics at large are not immediately clear to me.

caveat: UK politics and US politics are not analogous. with that said, it seems entirely plausible, if not likely that a full-scale demoralization of the progressive movement will happen within the democratic party somewhat akin to what happened recently with Corbyn and the Labour Party. now, if i seem to be repeating verbatim the 'warnings' issued out ad nauseam by centrist media sources, it is because i am. but for me it is not because i believe that moderation and incrementalism are meaningful in the slightest because i fundamentally regard the priorities of those who preach it to be those of unimaginative dullards who have disturbingly low awareness or are in outright denial about what is at stake in the near and long-term future— for this country and for the future of humanity. i can't help but envision a spectacular crash and burn of the Sanders campaign and associated movements resulting in their relatively non-radical ideas being hard-wiped from the noopolitical sphere, at least in the immediate future.

now here is where i start to feel like i am falling off the deep end. it is entirely possible that the next couple of paragraphs will come off as if i have become some sort of wingnut or am just generally confused and misled.

i fully recognize my interpretations may seem outright irrational, paranoid, 'doomer', 'blackpilled', (<--fuck these gay ass terms) and that i am embracing eschatological thinking (which i have a tendency toward)— but i think that a complete destruction of our nebulous concepts of 'left' and 'right' are close on the horizon. this is because i believe we have been, in the USA and many other countries, a kind of slow-burn crisis for a very long time and no matter how much each camp wants to define itself as unique, all responses are reactionary — from nu-lefty utopianism-lite to nu-conservative nationalism to the overwhelming, suffocating technocratic placations of the center. none of these positions are poised to properly address the issues that face us now, but more importantly, they aren't suited to deal with the pressures that are to come.

there isn't one clear beginning to the crisis nor is there any one defining feature of it, but when i attempt to use realpolitik to analyze our situation, i have trouble seeing a future that doesn't feature a hard turn towards strong central government and authoritarian tendency at the federal level. the 'pressures' i mentioned that aren't quite there yet— they seem highly probable to arise, eventually, if not soon. and the kind of politics we will see evolve in response will not fit easily into any one quadrant, but will most likely coalesce into the hard authoritarian right. but even that will be confusing because the policies of Sanders will no longer belong to the left once the pressure increases. borders are more likely to become hard. fortress europe, fortress america, fortress any nation-state that recognizes its need to basically imprison its citizens — economic participants kept captive to keep functioning the economic model we have grown into.

i say all this to essentially state what will easily come off as some 'edgy teenage bullshit': this election does not matter. progressive politics have become myopic and limited in their scale and whether or not we tidy up our country to try and elevate our infrastructures to some scandinavian ideals (which won't happen), the real fucking problems are global, and our politics are like molasses in their response to issues, and no one we put in office can face up against the political machine in DC that is categorically opposed to any kind of large-scale restructuring. for now. Bernie is not FDR and we are not yet in an analogous moment. But the pressure is coming, and instead of rationally planning, this country and many, many others have sat on their thumbs for decades, and change is going to come — but not because we have the ability to envision a better world. it will come out of necessity as the complex systems we rely on get close to their breaking point. and it won't be fun for anyone.

i almost welcome another four years of trump because i relish seeing chinks form in the armor of american imperialism. but there is no better solution, no better state actor. except maybe xi jinping lol. fuck the democrats. fuck the republicans. fuck bernie, trump, all politicians. we need internationalism more than we have ever needed before. we need immediate, decisive action on a global scale. unfortunately, it's just not going to happen.

so keep enjoying the shameless pageantry that is this whole political spectacle if you want, but know that this won't continue for that much longer. savor it i guess. things are not going to be casual in the coming decades. this has been another salv PSA, thank you for your attention, bye.

the contradictions of capitalism and the contradictions of globalist industrialization + climate change are going to polarize political inclinations and either result in green anarchism or ecofascism, because there are no alternatives if it gets sufficiently bad, and it looks like it is going to get that bad.  climate change is forcing eschatological viewpoints and they are the only way to go.  either you're an authoritarian or you're an anarchist, and you're either left or right.  it's time to choose and start engaging in and preparing for direct action in your local community, possibly even moving to more rural locations where less sufficiently advanced means of production are required and you can live off the land in a more primitivistic way

[YangYing]

I am! 

 

fuck off zeff delete that post rn, now my post dont make sense

Edited March 4, 2020 by MIXL2
assholes

[Candiru]

Young people didn’t show up to vote for Bernie yesterday. If they didn’t care enough  to make him the nominee, then how is he more electable? Everyone was banking on the hoards of youngsters in the general election but they already blew it. 

[zlemflolia]

 

[Candiru]

6 minutes ago, Mesh Gear Fox said:

so the dems and dem voters really seem to want another 4 years of trump. so be it. you get what you deserve.

Nah, it looks like we just dodged that bullet. People have gotten a bit brainwashed by social media it seems.   

[auxien]

6 hours ago, joshuatxuk said:

The debates will be telling. They chipped at Bloomberg's appeal a lot. Biden isn't going to be able to wing it when he has to actually go against Bernie head to head.

I agree this push behind Biden is making the overall race far more up in the air and it gets back to the ultimate question of strategy: Bernie bringing in new and/or previously disillusioned voters or Biden bringing in moderate/independents, anti-Trump conservatives, etc. Biden's centrist push is empty and deflated but against Trump it's a clear "lesser of two evils." Sanders on the other hand offers starkly opposite policies and rhetoric against both Trump and the establishment in general. He could easily bring in the more casual Trump supporters as well from rural and working class background especially. 

idk that Biden's going to have to go head to head against Bernie. i mean, yeah, i guess there's another debate or two or something, but if Biden locks up a few more delegates then it's essentially over no matter anyone's debate performance.... but despite actual delegate counts, the Dem elites have locked in on Biden and so for all intents and purposes, Bernie's out. officially or not, the primary is over.

but Biden vs Trump is going to be pretty ugly, in every sense of the word. two sad old egotistical fools. maybe they'll get each other so fired up (or Trump does so much coke before the debate like he did with Hilary*) one or both will keel over. Sanders might've drove out some new voters to the Dem party if he were to make it to the general.... but if he couldn't get them out for the primaries (he hasn't) then it doesn't track much to assume he can magically drive out tons in the general... and sure, some tiny portion of the Trump voters might've voted for Bernie, but that would've been negated by far by many Dems who are not okay with Sanders and would've stayed home. because i think a lot of what we saw yesterday was just that (note, this is my speculation): many of the Dem voters who turned out were voting AGAINST Bernie much more than they were voting FOR Biden. 

*dunno that he was actually high but i remember a debate or two where it really seemed it

4 hours ago, Candiru said:

Nah, it looks like we just dodged that bullet. People have gotten a bit brainwashed by social media it seems.   

i saw on Twitter that ______ candidate has a HUGE following! THEY WERE TRENDING LOL!!!!! we're gonna win! 

Edited March 5, 2020 by auxien

[auxien]

4 hours ago, Mesh Gear Fox said:

so the dems and dem voters really seem to want another 4 years of trump. so be it. you get what you deserve.

Dems very well may lose. anyone in there has a hard battle against the right. 

[Candiru]

What if “the establishment” was aware of what’s in the opposition research file on Bernie and DIDN’T feel like repeating that wonderful experience of 2016. (Because that’s one aspect of what we’re seeing here, believe it or not.)

[zlemflolia]

1 minute ago, Candiru said:

What if “the establishment” was aware of what’s in the opposition research file on Bernie and DIDN’T feel like repeating that wonderful experience of 2016. (Because that’s one aspect of what we’re seeing here, believe it or not.)

that's a vague accusation, can you back it up tho? anything beyond soviet honeymoon level smears?

[auxien]

Bernie's on Maddow, she's grilling him on 'why are you constantly failing' and his answer is pretty telling....he's talking about his campaign comparing it to the civil rights movement... and on that metric 'we've done great' but like.... pick a path dude? either try and push for an anti-establishment movement to try and enact change for all the great things you believe in, OR run for president. those are two VERY VERY VERY different things mate. that's why you keep failing at running for president on the Democratic party ticket. 

[zlemflolia]

2 minutes ago, auxien said:

Bernie's on Maddow, she's grilling him on 'why are you constantly failing' and his answer is pretty telling....he's talking about his campaign comparing it to the civil rights movement... and on that metric 'we've done great' but like.... pick a path dude? either try and push for an anti-establishment movement to try and enact change for all the great things you believe in, OR run for president. those are two VERY VERY VERY different things mate. that's why you keep failing at running for president on the Democratic party ticket. 

so what are you trying to do exactly, blame him for voter behavior?

[auxien]

i'm thinking out loud about him being bad at running to be a president.... undercurrent is me wishing he'd have just used all the energy he's gotten from many supporters in a better way with a better goal than him being president. he's got enough experience and enough good ideas to have done something useful and pushing towards enacting actual change (either as a Senator or attacking the establishment from the outside) instead of squandering all that time and money and hope on a goal he was likely never going to get anyway: the presidency.

Edited March 5, 2020 by auxien

[bendish]

Biden will lose to Trump. His record is terrible. He can barely string a sentence together. 

The debates will be a car crash of viral fuck ups on both sides. But that's Trumps whole thing so it's an asset for him.

In demographic terms its only a matter time until a left candidate wins.

Bernie like Corbyn has the entire establishment against him. Thats pretty hard to deny. Let's just hope if Biden loses, the dems finally actually have to grow both economically and in foreign policy and not just in terms of identity politics. 

If Warren chooses to support Sanders the race is still on.