2020 US Election

[zlemflolia]

there's only so much you can do as one individual congressperson when you're opposed by so many conservatives and liberal reactionaries.  the best way for him to redirect the US in the correct direction is through heavy use of executive orders and being an advocate on the ground for unions and workers, and helping to grow grassroots campaigns for congressional candidates

Edited March 5, 2020 by Zeffolia

[bendish]

Just now, Zeffolia said:

there's only so much you can do as one individual congressperson when you're opposed by so many conservatives and liberal reactionaries.  the best way for him to redirect the US in the correct direction is through heavy use of executive orders and being an advocate on the ground for unions and workers

Effective organising on the ground vs media machine and money is a tough battle. 

[zlemflolia]

Just now, bendish said:

Effective organising on the ground vs media machine and money is a tough battle. 

i think the internet and smart phones theoretically should play a big role here, and time moving on resulting in old people dying and no longer voting.  mainstream media is so biased, so corrupt, that if you sit and watch it each moment, almost every paragraph they say something blatantly biased in favor of corporate dem interests.  it's disgusting to watch.  a transition to decentralized media distribution would be good.  but with money backing them, corporate interests can even infiltrate that.  

one interesting thing to note is that in social circles only in-group memes can't be effectively appropriated unless they're actually understood contextually, so political memeification may be helping in filtering out outside interests.  that's just me talking shit though.

[bendish]

1 minute ago, Zeffolia said:

i think the internet and smart phones theoretically should play a big role here, and time moving on resulting in old people dying and no longer voting.  mainstream media is so biased, so corrupt, that if you sit and watch it each moment, almost every paragraph they say something blatantly biased in favor of corporate dem interests.  it's disgusting to watch.  a transition to decentralized media distribution would be good.  but with money backing them, corporate interests can even infiltrate that.  

one interesting thing to note is that in social circles only in-group memes can't be effectively appropriated unless they're actually understood contextually, so political memeification may be helping in filtering out outside interests.  that's just me talking shit though.

Vs Bloomberg money behind Biden. Not a chance. 

[auxien]

5 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

there's only so much you can do as one individual congressperson when you're opposed by so many conservatives and liberal reactionaries.  the best way for him to redirect the US in the correct direction is through heavy use of executive orders and being an advocate on the ground for unions and workers, and helping to grow grassroots campaigns for congressional candidates

executive orders aren't a magic fix to entirely redirect the US. that's not how they work.

the growing grassroots campaigns thing tho, hm....

if only there were something that Bernie was literally a part of for decades that was neither conservative/Republicans nor mainstream Democrats...some form of a group of people that he could get together and lead to try and promote the values he believes in, at all levels of government small and large. some sort of . . .... a party perhaps? not one of the two main ones, but... a third party! yeah!! he could help organize a showing of a third party in American politics at local and national levels! that would be cool! if only he had some sort of popular young group of politicians who would gladly support this and join him and engage with younger generations and graner participation from them as well as recruit new members to this third party...some kind of a squad i guess? would be REALLY cool if they were already in congress! but that would be crazy lol. too bad that's not a thing that he spent the last year/s doing instead of trying to stroke his own ego with yet another doomed-to-fail run for the Democratic nomination.

[zlemflolia]

2 minutes ago, auxien said:

executive orders aren't a magic fix to entirely redirect the US. that's not how they work.

the growing grassroots campaigns thing tho, hm....

if only there were something that Bernie was literally a part of for decades that was neither conservative/Republicans nor mainstream Democrats...some form of a group of people that he could get together and lead to try and promote the values he believes in, at all levels of government small and large. some sort of . . .... a party perhaps? not one of the two main ones, but... a third party! yeah!! he could help organize a showing of a third party in American politics at local and national levels! that would be cool! if only he had some sort of popular young group of politicians who would gladly support this and join him and engage with younger generations and graner participation from them as well as recruit new members to this third party...some kind of a squad i guess? would be REALLY cool if they were already in congress! but that would be crazy lol. too bad that's not a thing that he spent the last year/s doing instead of trying to stroke his own ego with yet another doomed-to-fail run for the Democratic nomination.

"just wait, maybe once you're about to die something might be starting to happen"

>I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

>I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Zeffolia

[Candiru]

33 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

that's a vague accusation, can you back it up tho? anything beyond soviet honeymoon level smears?

A lot more on his sympathies for commie/socialist political figures who were at odds with US foreign policy. Timed and curated deliciously for the Florida primary. Actual Cubans that came to Miami wouldn’t be too keen on it. Also a clever counterpoint to Trump’s Russia problems to create confusion. It would work and it’s why Trump wants to run against him.

[zlemflolia]

Just now, Candiru said:

A lot more on his sympathies for commie/socialist political figures who were at odds with US foreign policy. Timed and curated deliciously for the Florida primary. Actual Cubans that came to Miami wouldn’t be too keen on it. Also a clever counterpoint to Trump’s Russia problems to create confusion. It would work and it’s why Trump wants to run against him.

you mean that he's not a brainwashed american who thinks brown people organizing together to nationalize their economies or resist US imperialism are bad?

[auxien]

3 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

...

you really are dense as a fucking rock dude

[zlemflolia]

1 minute ago, auxien said:

you really are dense as a fucking rock dude

youre a liberal lmao

[Candiru]

2 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

you mean that he's not a brainwashed american who thinks brown people organizing together to nationalize their economies or resist US imperialism are bad?

That’s one way to frame it. A way that would lose to Trump. The ultra-woke Bernista portion of the electorate is 9% overall. 

[zlemflolia]

i guess the inevitable eternal fascistic surveillance slave state ruled by transhuman totalitarians using life extension on both themselves and the labor pool isnt that bad then.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Zeffolia

[joshuatxuk]

Bernie's on Maddow, she's grilling him on 'why are you constantly failing' and his answer is pretty telling....he's talking about his campaign comparing it to the civil rights movement... and on that metric 'we've done great' but like.... pick a path dude? either try and push for an anti-establishment movement to try and enact change for all the great things you believe in, OR run for president. those are two VERY VERY VERY different things mate. that's why you keep failing at running for president on the Democratic party ticket. 

this is glib AF, those aren't mutually exclusive

Trump literally achieved both on the other side, he achieved his flippant goal of becoming president and turned around a party on the verge of splitting into a lockstep political machine

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[joshuatxuk]

That’s one way to frame it. A way that would lose to Trump. The ultra-woke Bernista portion of the electorate is 9% overall. 

The absurdly cruel irony is Trump and his supporters have strategically touted non-intervention as the core reason of their retreats and withdrawals in Syria and Iraq and now all but surrendering to the Taliban in Afghanistan. The majority of Americans across the political spectrum would be wary of, if not completely opposed to imperialism, the MIC, and unfettered capitalism. They project otherwise and/or get swayed by other more arbitrary or niche issues.

RE: Cuba the anti-Castro demographic in Miami is a generational and class divide. Most younger Cuban Americans lean toward normalisation of relations, partly why so many switched from GOP to Democrat in the last decade. I agree in the context of political strategy that it's an issue for Bernie, and one Biden is willing to exploit but it's a cynical facet in Florida specifically. Policies against Cuba and Castro have always been hyperbolic in tone and ineffective in practice and bad optics or not Sanders is right about the issue.

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[auxien]

1 hour ago, joshuatxuk said:

this is glib AF, those aren't mutually exclusive

Trump literally achieved both on the other side, he achieved his flippant goal of becoming president and turned around a party on the verge of splitting into a lockstep political machine

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glib af, yeah, this is an IDM forum? lol

MLK was a pretty smart guy and realized running for president wouldn't be good for his goals: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-martin-luther-king-didnt-run-for-president-55331/

and Bernie has said essentially the same himself. i guess sometimes the hardest advice to take is your own:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/08/19/bernie_sanders_let_me_tell_you_something_no_other_candidate_for_president_will_tell_you.html

Trump split the right far more than he helped unite them. the voters turned out for him in '16 mostly because they hated Hilary and wanted SC/etc judges... will be surprised if the right turns out in '20 anywhere near the numbers they did in '16. the party leaders are staying in step with him because they're largely career politicians who'll suck any cock that keeps them in power and pleasing their moneyed backers, which Trump is proven good at. that's not a party in lockstep, that's party leaders entirely out of step with the needs and wants of their voters, doing so by lying to the voters in every way it takes to keep the illusion going.

Edited March 5, 2020 by auxien

[dingformung]

3 hours ago, auxien said:

the growing grassroots campaigns thing tho, hm....

if only there were something that Bernie was literally a part of for decades that was neither conservative/Republicans nor mainstream Democrats...some form of a group of people that he could get together and lead to try and promote the values he believes in, at all levels of government small and large. some sort of . . .... a party perhaps? not one of the two main ones, but... a third party! yeah!! he could help organize a showing of a third party in American politics at local and national levels! that would be cool! if only he had some sort of popular young group of politicians who would gladly support this and join him and engage with younger generations and graner participation from them as well as recruit new members to this third party...some kind of a squad i guess? would be REALLY cool if they were already in congress! but that would be crazy lol. too bad that's not a thing that he spent the last year/s doing instead of trying to stroke his own ego with yet another doomed-to-fail run for the Democratic nomination.

On long term a multi party system is what the US needs. Only I imagine the transition from a system in which a single party rules to a system of coalition forming to be difficult since it's not part of the political culture in this country. And this transition period would suck since the right will remain a unified protofascist block while the left would be split up into a multitude of parties.

[goDel]

Lets start with getting money out of politics, before all the other stuff. You can change everything, but without addressing the financial issue you're not going anywhere, I'm afraid. You'd end up with multiple parties on the hunt for more money.

[Brisbot]

31 minutes ago, goDel said:

Lets start with getting money out of politics, before all the other stuff. You can change everything, but without addressing the financial issue you're not going anywhere, I'm afraid. You'd end up with multiple parties on the hunt for more money.

This is my number 1 issue besides climate change. Has to be the single biggest change that needs to be made besides that, otherwise politicians will just continue to listen to just the rich people who funded their campaign.

[marf]

Having have a nagging feeling Bernie didn't win the south because people think he wants to tax churches. Churches should be audited. Maybe they are, but it would rout out most of the charlatans and where do you have most of them but in churches.  Sunday service. I bet you anything all the pastors were saying vote for Biden cause they are worried about their scam

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by marf

[zlemflolia]

13 minutes ago, marf said:

Having have a nagging feeling Bernie didn't win the south because people think he wants to tax churches. Churches should be audited. Maybe they are, but it would rout out most of the charlatans and where do you have most of them but in churches.  Sunday service. I bet you anything all the pastors were saying vote for Biden cause they are worried about their scam

 

discusting

[Brisbot]

Okay so just got out of a get together a few hours back. I live in a conservative area, friends with lots of conservatives. They talked about the election ( I mostly keep quiet, it's awkward AF being the only liberal in the room), and several of the people there admitted to voting on the democrat ballet this time in order to stop Bernie, voting for Biden since they felt Trump could smash him in debates. 

Texas has open primaries that are in the same place, so you choose what you vote for when you get there and you don't have to be registered as a Dem or Rep. 

Not saying this was the reason Bernie lost, but it is a factor that I wasn't expecting at all, but makes sense as Trump is already in the bag for them.

[Blir]

2 hours ago, goDel said:

Lets start with getting money out of politics, before all the other stuff. You can change everything, but without addressing the financial issue you're not going anywhere, I'm afraid. You'd end up with multiple parties on the hunt for more money.

I just don't see a future where this will ever happen.

[Candiru]

1 hour ago, Brisbot said:

Okay so just got out of a get together a few hours back. I live in a conservative area, friends with lots of conservatives. They talked about the election ( I mostly keep quiet, it's awkward AF being the only liberal in the room), and several of the people there admitted to voting on the democrat ballet this time in order to stop Bernie, voting for Biden since they felt Trump could smash him in debates. 

Texas has open primaries that are in the same place, so you choose what you vote for when you get there and you don't have to be registered as a Dem or Rep. 

Not saying this was the reason Bernie lost, but it is a factor that I wasn't expecting at all, but makes sense as Trump is already in the bag for them.

Weird. The RNC actually wanted their voters to register as Dems and vote for Bernie for that exact reason. 

Trump wanted to run against Bernie. Ask yourself why.

[dingformung]

you're all delusional

[YangYing]

23 minutes ago, Candiru said:

Trump wanted to run against Bernie. Ask yourself why

idk, to me it feels like he always wanted to run against biden with the whole burisma shtick and shit, and is only using the "oh poor bernie" as a facade to appeal to dum dums

but maybe im giving the orange man way too much credit