2020 US Election

[Guest]

biden can't even get through the name of his own website without fucking it up in some way or another.

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Guest

[zlemflolia]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/stop-blaming-young-voters-not-turning-out-sanders/608137/

[chenGOD]

What a terrible argument.

His first attempt to support his argument is to go on the offensive is:"To say that something is wrong with young Americans as a group is to say that something is inferior about young Americans as a group."

Wrong is not a synonym for inferior. The reasons that people for example say that young Americans are apathetic about politics can be summed up in the following quote (which the author of the article oddly poses as supporting his argument).

"Simply put, many young people want to participate, care about what is happens in the political arena, and plan to participate. But they find doing so too big of a hassle to actually follow through on their good intentions,"

Gen Xers are still in the work force, still have the same hassles (and more, having kids and families and more responsibility at work than many millenials or zoomers), and yet still managed to get out and vote (an interesting cohort, because the last 6 years of Gen X fall under age 45, and people under 45 in general (which would include millenials) supported Sanders, while the rest of the cohort overwhelmingly flipped to Biden). So yeah - apathetic.

The author then goes on to write the following nonsense: "Simply put, the reason young Americans have been less likely to vote than older voters is the same reason for the better part of American history people of color have been less likely to vote than white people; why women were long less likely to vote than men; why poor people have been less likely to vote than wealthier people; why prisoners have been less likely to vote than non-prisoners."

The first part is undoubtedly true: people of colour have long been subject to discriminatory policies. The second part is 100% false: in the immediate aftermath of women's suffrage, yes, women were less likely to vote. Women have however, long been more likely to vote than men, even in younger cohorts. (PDF 1) (PDF 2 - see p. 8-9). Poor people vote in larger overall numbers, simply because they make up more of the population (a simple statistical truth). But yes they vote in smaller percentages for their cohort - there are undoubtedly polices in place that make it more difficult for the poor (young and old alike) to vote (probably transportation and lack of time off work being major culprits), and there is probably some correlation with education levels.  Prisoners have been less likely to vote because they literally can't - to compare them to young people is frankly speaking, offensive.

The author then goes on to complain that "voter registration rules are often confusing." I'm sorry, but if you want to vote, and understand the issues you are voting for, you should be able to figure out how to register. He goes on to state that "Automatic voter registration markedly increases the number of first-time young voters." SO in other words, young people need to have someone hold their hand? But I thought they weren't apathetic. Additionally, while same day-registration laws are on the books in "only" 21 states, they have been so since 1973 (PDF 3 - p.5). But we know from PDF 2 that youth voter participation has declined since then.

Making it easier for people to vote means a more inclusive democracy, and policies to do so should be explored and implemented. But - voter registration policies are not discriminatory in any meaningful way. Evidence indicates that same day registration has some impact, but not enough to push a large mass of youth voters out to the polls. Will automatic registration provide that push? Maybe - though I suspect not. Online voting would likely increase it more - and it looks like effective voting software using blockchain technology is going to be rolled out in the near future. In the meantime, young people need to get out and vote, and if they're serious - none of those issues are discriminatory by age.

tl;dr - young people are lazy fucks. (source - i was one).

Bonus: if you respond with an ad hominem (e.g. ok boomer, status quo bootlicker), you get a suspension.

 

 

[Hugh Mughnus]

@chenGOD you’re wasting your breath (finger strength)

[zlemflolia]

2 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

What a terrible argument.

His first attempt to support his argument is to go on the offensive is:"To say that something is wrong with young Americans as a group is to say that something is inferior about young Americans as a group."

Wrong is not a synonym for inferior. The reasons that people for example say that young Americans are apathetic about politics can be summed up in the following quote (which the author of the article oddly poses as supporting his argument).

"Simply put, many young people want to participate, care about what is happens in the political arena, and plan to participate. But they find doing so too big of a hassle to actually follow through on their good intentions,"

Gen Xers are still in the work force, still have the same hassles (and more, having kids and families and more responsibility at work than many millenials or zoomers), and yet still managed to get out and vote (an interesting cohort, because the last 6 years of Gen X fall under age 45, and people under 45 in general (which would include millenials) supported Sanders, while the rest of the cohort overwhelmingly flipped to Biden). So yeah - apathetic.

The author then goes on to write the following nonsense: "Simply put, the reason young Americans have been less likely to vote than older voters is the same reason for the better part of American history people of color have been less likely to vote than white people; why women were long less likely to vote than men; why poor people have been less likely to vote than wealthier people; why prisoners have been less likely to vote than non-prisoners."

The first part is undoubtedly true: people of colour have long been subject to discriminatory policies. The second part is 100% false: in the immediate aftermath of women's suffrage, yes, women were less likely to vote. Women have however, long been more likely to vote than men, even in younger cohorts. (PDF 1) (PDF 2 - see p. 8-9). Poor people vote in larger overall numbers, simply because they make up more of the population (a simple statistical truth). But yes they vote in smaller percentages for their cohort - there are undoubtedly polices in place that make it more difficult for the poor (young and old alike) to vote (probably transportation and lack of time off work being major culprits), and there is probably some correlation with education levels.  Prisoners have been less likely to vote because they literally can't - to compare them to young people is frankly speaking, offensive.

The author then goes on to complain that "voter registration rules are often confusing." I'm sorry, but if you want to vote, and understand the issues you are voting for, you should be able to figure out how to register. He goes on to state that "Automatic voter registration markedly increases the number of first-time young voters." SO in other words, young people need to have someone hold their hand? But I thought they weren't apathetic. Additionally, while same day-registration laws are on the books in "only" 21 states, they have been so since 1973 (PDF 3 - p.5). But we know from PDF 2 that youth voter participation has declined since then.

Making it easier for people to vote means a more inclusive democracy, and policies to do so should be explored and implemented. But - voter registration policies are not discriminatory in any meaningful way. Evidence indicates that same day registration has some impact, but not enough to push a large mass of youth voters out to the polls. Will automatic registration provide that push? Maybe - though I suspect not. Online voting would likely increase it more - and it looks like effective voting software using blockchain technology is going to be rolled out in the near future. In the meantime, young people need to get out and vote, and if they're serious - none of those issues are discriminatory by age.

tl;dr - young people are lazy fucks. (source - i was one).

Bonus: if you respond with an ad hominem (e.g. ok boomer, status quo bootlicker), you get a suspension.

You and I are disagreeing then on what systematic voter suppression means.  Yeah, each individual can take the time to do it, but we already know, as you said, that young people don't end up individually doing it, which affects the voter turnout of the group.  The fact is, young people aren't voting, and there are solutions to fixing it, like mandatory mail-in ballots with postage paid, and reminders for those who don't turn them in on time, as well as systematic outreach to younger people at the places they congregate, like schools and on the internet. 

The attitude you've expressed in this post is "young people are lazy fucks" who want "someone to hold their hand".  Okay, give it to them, or else we're going to keep having that low turnout among young people, because the system in place is not catching their attention or notice as much as it should.  That means it's broken

Fact is, there's the system we have now, and there are infinitely many hypothetical alternative systems, many of which would result in higher voter turnout among young people.  You are remaining biased towards what we have now though.  I don't know why, but it doesn't indicate a sincere desire on your part to fix the youth voter turnout issue.

Instead, you insult young people and blame them individually for what is demonstrably a systemic problem.  This is the inferiority claim that the article's author was talking about.  In your first sentence you deny the legitimacy of the claim, but by the end of your post you prove that you yourself are the type of person he is talking about - the type of person who thinks young people are inferior, or in other words, "lazy fucks", as you called them

[Candiru]

I think younger generations are developing a bit slower in some ways because of the narcissism that social media enables so well. Self absorbed little whipper snappers ain't even going to get off their bee-hinds and vote. My grandpappy was picking shrapnel outta his bee-hind in Pearl Harbor and you little bastards can't even drive to a fuckin high school and color in a few circles

*smashes beer bottle*

[chenGOD]

25 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

Instead, you insult young people and blame them individually for what is demonstrably a systemic problem.

The systemic problem affects all voters of all ages - I'm not blaming young people individually, I'm blaming them as a group. If you are serious about wanting change, don't expect people to hold your hand. I don't think young people are inferior - plenty of old lazy fucks as well. There are just more young people who are.

Clearly you missed this line.

50 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Making it easier for people to vote means a more inclusive democracy, and policies to do so should be explored and implemented.

I think we should move away from first past the post, to a ranked ballot/PR system. I think we should use blockchain technology to facilitate online voting. I think you guys should get rid of your electoral college. Why the fuck you think the people who benefit from these policies will hold your hand and lead you to the voting booth is beyond me. I also fail to understand how you could forget that voting day was coming soon - if you are remotely interested in politics. The Democratic Primaries have been front page news for coming up on two months - how much more of a reminder do you need?

Who do you think is more likely to even consider the idea of implementing any of those policies - Trump or Biden?

[goDel]

I'm guessing voting by mail was still suppressing the Sanders voters?

Only way he can lose is by suppression apparently...

Biden Won Tuesday’s Primaries As Voters Embraced Voting By Mail

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-won-tuesdays-primaries-as-voters-embraced-voting-by-mail/

[Nebraska]

Quote

Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign currently has no active Facebook ads, the morning after another disappointing finish in a series of primary contests.

https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-suspends-facebook-ads-2020-election-8d888649-55fb-4358-a6e6-cac09584bac8.html

welp: the writing is on the wall. i think it's only a matter of time now before we just accept it's biden's horse now to loose. unless someone knows something different- i don't see bernie becoming the democratic nominee short of biden suspending his campaign. 

 

[auxien]

^been saying that for weeks but good to see acceptance wafting over everyone.

no one is happy but this is the way that it is. maybe we’ll get lucky and Biden will die before Election Day.

[auxien]

15 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

You and I are disagreeing then on what systematic voter suppression means.  Yeah, each individual can take the time to do it, but we already know, as you said, that young people don't end up individually doing it, which affects the voter turnout of the group.  The fact is, young people aren't voting, and there are solutions to fixing it, like mandatory mail-in ballots with postage paid, and reminders for those who don't turn them in on time, as well as systematic outreach to younger people at the places they congregate, like schools and on the internet. 

The attitude you've expressed in this post is "young people are lazy fucks" who want "someone to hold their hand".  Okay, give it to them, or else we're going to keep having that low turnout among young people, because the system in place is not catching their attention or notice as much as it should.  That means it's broken

Fact is, there's the system we have now, and there are infinitely many hypothetical alternative systems, many of which would result in higher voter turnout among young people.  You are remaining biased towards what we have now though.  I don't know why, but it doesn't indicate a sincere desire on your part to fix the youth voter turnout issue.

Instead, you insult young people and blame them individually for what is demonstrably a systemic problem.  This is the inferiority claim that the article's author was talking about.  In your first sentence you deny the legitimacy of the claim, but by the end of your post you prove that you yourself are the type of person he is talking about - the type of person who thinks young people are inferior, or in other words, "lazy fucks", as you called them

I’m too lazy to look into it but I wonder if young people are lower/much lower turnout for voting in basically all political processes everywhere across all nations and eras. I’d bet a dollar that they are. 

[chenGOD]

2 minutes ago, auxien said:

I’m too lazy to look into it but I wonder if young people are lower/much lower turnout for voting in basically all political processes everywhere across all nations and eras. I’d bet a dollar that they are. 

Must be a whippersnapper.

[ignatius]

[Nebraska]

no surprise she's backing hilla.... i mean biden

[caze]

It's actually quite surprising.

[Taupe Beats]

RAVE Act Joe

[ignatius]

she's free to be a Fox News contributor now. 

[zero]

why did she stay in so long I wonder...wasn't she polling at like 1% the whole time?

[Nebraska]

5 hours ago, Nebraska said:

no surprise she's backing hilla.... i mean biden

whoa... guess i was wrong. weird that she would endorse biden when he's part of that very "sickened democratic party" that is so rotten. so much for the russian grooming hoax eh?

 

 

[ignatius]

2 hours ago, zero said:

why did she stay in so long I wonder...wasn't she polling at like 1% the whole time?

she  probably just forgot.  then realized the other day "oh shit i should quit that campaign thing"

[Candiru]

Nah, Tulsi got outed and doesn’t want Jill Stein’s reputation would be my guess.

[caze]

she probably realized she's still young, playing the long con.

[ignatius]

classic old people and technology scenario 

if he somehow gets elected it'll be a comedy that writes itself solely based on him asking "you mean we can do that?" and having to get some young person to explain "yes Mr President, the think  of the data as a stream that travels on light in a sort of tube". 

Edited March 22, 2020 by ignatius

[may be rude]

 

[Nebraska]

biden is using those campaign ad dollars effectively