2020 US Election

[auxien]

32 minutes ago, custom knob said:

The best possible outcome would be trump forming his own party. Someone needs to convince him the Republican Party was a hindrance to his re-election chances

 

could be a good trigger for making some headway towards destroying the two party stranglehold. this could be a great thing if so.

[Brisbot]

53 minutes ago, baph said:

Usually the biggest tell I have is a kind of slurring disfluency, which also seems to be Biden’s major issue

Biden stuttered in his youth, and trained himself to overcome it as much as possible, so it comes off like he can't say the word on occasion.

41 minutes ago, Joyrex said:

The best possible outcome would be trump forming his own party. Someone needs to convince him the Republican Party was a hindrance to his re-election chances

I think that would be a very bad idea. Maybe he could start his own sub-party (tea party as an example) but then still run on Republican ticket.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Brisbot

[hijexx]

lol ok, every time Biden does this it's just a speech impediment then No offense to people who struggle with that problem, not trying to throw shade on you at all or even bring you into the conversation (even if you're doing so yourself) but please just keep an open/critical mind over the next four years on this one.

[Nebraska]

hope everyone said a little prayer for big T

[EdamAnchorman]

2 hours ago, IDEM said:

 

I'm not sure that's what people are alluding to though -- haven't there been several incidents where he confused people, mixed up names etc.? That wouldn't be connected to stuttering, would it?

Edit: I say that as one of WATMM's least intelligent.

Thanks, baph, for sharing.  My stammer definitely sounds more severe than yours, and has evolved quite a bit over my lifetime.  Every time I try and develop strategies to overcome it, it seems to find new ways to circumvent that.  I had it tackled pretty good in my 20s but I've lost ground the older I'm getting (39 now).  Social situations with new people give me so much fucking anxiety because I know what the look on their face will be when they see me stammer for the first or second time.  People aren't mean about it for sure, but every time I see that face on people that gets quickly hidden once they realize my problem and try to hide their confusion, I just feel like a failure.  Not going for sympathy here, it hasn't really held me back at all, I mean I was able to get a PhD in Chemical Engineering and I work for a huge company and have to give presentations to management all the time.  Funny thing is that for me I think it's almost 100% psychological.  When I'm giving big presentations I kind of get in "the zone" where I can speak very well, then when I'm chatting with friends afterward and I get excited it's a total fucking mess lol.

Regarding BIden, as baph said, I'll guess at least half (if not more) of Biden's mental energy is just going toward speaking when he's giving speeches.  Using the mechanisms he's developed, trying to keep a rhythm, using certain physical movements at key points of speaking like sentence beginnings and certain hard consonants or consonant blends.  The primary goal is to just keep going, just keep going.  Because if you falter and start to stutter, man does it just get fucking worse so quickly from there.  So these "gaffes" probably come from him expending so much energy just speaking, then maybe not finding the right word and faltering and quickly substituting perhaps a wrong word.  In his mind I'm sure saying the wrong word and keeping the speech going is preferable to a stammering blubber.  A good example of that is his famous, "For every man, woman, oh you know the thing..." or whatever gaffe.  I'm telling you 100% he knew he was about to stammer so he just said something that he could say cleanly to keep the rhythm going.

[baph]

4 minutes ago, hijexx said:

lol ok, every time Biden does this it's just a speech impediment then No offense to people who struggle with that problem, not trying to throw shade on you at all or even bring you into the conversation (even if you're doing so yourself) but please just keep an open/critical mind over the next four years on this one.

flol

thanks for being a paragon of open mindedness on this issue, I will do my best to live up to your fine example.

 

 

 

 

[hijexx]

3 minutes ago, baph said:

thanks for being a paragon of open mindedness on this issue, I will do my best to live up to your fine example.

Or don't! I don't really care, just putting out a different point of view besides "Ah, it's just Joe's speech impediment, no worries!"

[fumi]

I don't know why so many people think Trump will run again in 2024. Four years is a lifetime in politics. 

He might very well be facing jail a year from now.

[hijexx]

Especially with all of Trump's racist quotes

 

[baph]

1 hour ago, randomsummer said:

Thanks, baph, for sharing.  My stammer definitely sounds more severe than yours, and has evolved quite a bit over my lifetime.  Every time I try and develop strategies to overcome it, it seems to find new ways to circumvent that.  I had it tackled pretty good in my 20s but I've lost ground the older I'm getting (39 now).  Social situations with new people give me so much fucking anxiety because I know what the look on their face will be when they see me stammer for the first or second time.  People aren't mean about it for sure, but every time I see that face on people that gets quickly hidden once they realize my problem and try to hide their confusion, I just feel like a failure.  Not going for sympathy here, it hasn't really held me back at all, I mean I was able to get a PhD in Chemical Engineering and I work for a huge company and have to give presentations to management all the time.  Funny thing is that for me I think it's almost 100% psychological.  When I'm giving big presentations I kind of get in "the zone" where I can speak very well, then when I'm chatting with friends afterward and I get excited it's a total fucking mess lol.

Regarding BIden, as baph said, I'll guess at least half (if not more) of Biden's mental energy is just going toward speaking when he's giving speeches.  Using the mechanisms he's developed, trying to keep a rhythm, using certain physical movements at key points of speaking like sentence beginnings and certain hard consonants or consonant blends.  The primary goal is to just keep going, just keep going.  Because if you falter and start to stutter, man does it just get fucking worse so quickly from there.  So these "gaffes" probably come from him expending so much energy just speaking, then maybe not finding the right word and faltering and quickly substituting perhaps a wrong word.  In his mind I'm sure saying the wrong word and keeping the speech going is preferable to a stammering blubber.  A good example of that is his famous, "For every man, woman, oh you know the thing..." or whatever gaffe.  I'm telling you 100% he knew he was about to stammer so he just said something that he could say cleanly to keep the rhythm going.

Glad you wrote that; I know I’m super marginal and I can’t even imagine how much harder it is to evolve coping/corrective strategies with a more persistent/pronounced stammer.  Even with my marginal case I can’t watch Biden speak without recognizing it, which is the only reason I had to chime in — it’s just about the most obvious thing in the world when you can recognize it, and know how exhausting it must be.  

(also, I’m 39 too and feel like I’ve gotten worse this year after having the issue kind of unnoticeable for most of my working years. And holy shit yeah, can I rattle out a lecture fine (well, sometimes) but then totally bungle a simple sentence to my wife when my guard is down later on. “I’m feedl... the gat-cat food now” or something, lol, which I’ll stew on in my head for hours and she probably didn’t even notice.) 

Like, guys, this is the one thing that actually makes me sympathetic for Joe Biden.  If you want to criticize on policy that’s fair game, but to call it a symptom of cognitive decline is just stupid. 

I’m sure a lot of us have dealt with dementia/Alzheimer’s in family members at this point.  I just watched my grandmother go from sharp as tack to completely absent and confused. It’s heartbreaking and it’s obvious when it happens. It’s even heartbreaking to watch in a person you don’t love — even someone like a shitty boss (been there too) or a political opponent. 

If Biden starts screaming for butterscotch pudding in the middle of a speech, then let’s talk about it.  

Edited November 10, 2020 by baph

[Nebraska]

not sure if anyone has checked out newsmax, but they're basically living in an alternative reality where the election is still going on and trump hasn't lost

 

[ignatius]

[baph]

His small hands are perfect for detailing tbqh

[hijexx]

2 hours ago, baph said:

to call it a symptom of cognitive decline is just stupid

Confusion like Joe exhibits is a symptom of cognitive decline regardless of whether you think it's "stupid" to note that or not. I believe you're taking my observation of Joe Biden personally. As far as I know nobody here has said that your symptoms are symptoms of cognitive decline. I wouldn't even know about your sitch if you didn't say something about it.

I voted for Joe anyway so it wasn't a deal breaker but it's something I'm concerned about. If you're not concerned, that's cool, carry on.

[ignatius]

so now that the sec of defense has been fired i wonder if the insurrection act will be invoked and drumpf will flood cities with federal troops? Barr already gave authorization for federal prosecutors to investigate claims of voter fraud in every city. 

hysteria. the sec of defense who was fired was the guy who was outspoken about not invoking the insurrection act and not sending federal troops into cities.. so maybe the new guy is a "yes man" and we're all fucked. cats and dogs sleeping together etc etc. 

trump will keep moving ahead with his baseless lawsuits that will hopefully get thrown out quickly, his cult will protest, he won't concede, he'll head to mar a lago and won't go to biden's inauguration. 

bummer about the transition though. w/o the person appointed signing off it slows everything down and causes confusion and inefficiency. 

fuck these fucking wankers. fuck them one and all. 

this is the asshole of the moment. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-09/trump-gets-help-again-from-appointee-holding-up-biden-transition

Emily W. Murphy, the Trump-appointed administrator of the General Services Administration, has not yet declared Joe Biden as the apparent winner of the presidential election, a decision that would unlock millions of dollars in transition funding but contradict Trump’s unfounded assertion that he won.

[Hugh Mughnus]

8 minutes ago, hijexx said:

Confusion like Joe exhibits is a symptom of cognitive decline regardless of whether you think it's "stupid" to note that or not. I believe you're taking my observation of Joe Biden personally. As far as I know nobody here has said that your symptoms are symptoms of cognitive decline. I wouldn't even know about your sitch if you didn't say something about it.

I voted for Joe anyway so it wasn't a deal breaker but it's something I'm concerned about. If you're not concerned, that's cool, carry on.

I just think you’re wrong. As someone with pretty extreme anxiety I sometimes, when public speaking, go on tangents or speak/say words I don’t mean to. I don’t have a stammer or other speech impediment etc but with a psychological disorder find myself saying things that don’t necessarily make sense sometimes, mostly because I’m overthinking things. My observers might think I’m speaking nonsense for 30% of my speech however I’m certainly not in cognitive decline - what I’m saying just has context they’re not privy to...

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hugh Mughnus

[EdamAnchorman]

11 minutes ago, hijexx said:

Confusion like Joe exhibits is a symptom of cognitive decline regardless of whether you think it's "stupid" to note that or not. I believe you're taking my observation of Joe Biden personally. As far as I know nobody here has said that your symptoms are symptoms of cognitive decline. I wouldn't even know about your sitch if you didn't say something about it.

I voted for Joe anyway so it wasn't a deal breaker but it's something I'm concerned about. If you're not concerned, that's cool, carry on.

I think his point is that what you're taking for confusion and/or cognitive decline could more easily be explained by his stammering-avoidance strategies, and those might not be easily recognizable to those who don't have experience with that sort of thing.  For those who do, there's little doubt that most of the examples shown here are likely not "confusion" or shades of senility.

Edited November 10, 2020 by randomsummer

[baph]

14 minutes ago, hijexx said:

Confusion like Joe exhibits is a symptom of cognitive decline regardless of whether you think it's "stupid" to note that or not. I believe you're taking my observation of Joe Biden personally. As far as I know nobody here has said that your symptoms are symptoms of cognitive decline. I wouldn't even know about your sitch if you didn't say something about it.

I voted for Joe anyway so it wasn't a deal breaker but it's something I'm concerned about. If you're not concerned, that's cool, carry on.

I don’t take it personally at all. The point is that all of the symptoms you say are evidence of cognitive decline are symptoms of something else, which other people with stammers and disfluency deal with all the time, and which is not indicative of any cognitive impairment. But you’ve made up your mind, so that’s that. 
 

edit: randomsummer said what I want to say way better than I did 

Edited November 10, 2020 by baph

[ignatius]

Biden doesnt have a minor stutter. he has a major stutter. Having to practice in front of a mirror speaking every word and sounding them out. Pronouncing all syllables of words in an even paced way. 

there's stories about how bad it was when he was a kid. in that pbs frontline "the choice" a couple stories are recounted. 

it's early on in the show so you don't have to sit through the entire thing. 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2020-trump-vs-biden/

Edited November 10, 2020 by ignatius

[Hugh Mughnus]

1 minute ago, randomsummer said:

I think his point is that what you're taking for confusion could more easily be explained by his stammering-avoidance strategies, and those might not be easily recognizable to those who don't have experience with that sort of thing.  For those who do, there's little doubt that most of the examples shown here are likely not "confusion" or shades of senility.

Symptoms as manifested don’t necessarily tell the story as to the cause of those symptoms. What the observer sees as neurotic, confusion, senility etc can have a number of different causes. That’s how I see it anyways.

[hijexx]

I've been watching the guy for about three decades now and he hasn't been like this for most of that time but ya'll seem to be the experts here, I'll just agree to disagree.

[Rubin Farr]

[sweepstakes]

12 minutes ago, Hugh Mughnus said:

when public speaking, go on tangents or speak/say words I don’t mean to. I don’t have a stammer or other speech impediment etc but with a psychological disorder find myself saying things that don’t necessarily make sense sometimes, mostly because I’m overthinking things. My observers might think I’m speaking nonsense for 30% of my speech however I’m certainly not in cognitive decline - what I’m saying just has context they’re not privy to...

Man, I didn't think I had anxiety, but I get this too. This happens on a daily basis. It's like I'm overthinking everything but my brain has limited storage space, so I'll just express the details that were significant for me but usually don't mean jack shit for the poor person trying to understand me.

This is actually worse when I talk to people whom I think are smarter than me, because I'll assume that all the context is something that's already well-worn ground for them.

[EdamAnchorman]

4 minutes ago, hijexx said:

I've been watching the guy for about three decades now and he hasn't been like this for most of that time but ya'll seem to be the experts here, I'll just agree to disagree.

Fair enough, but a stammer isn't a static thing, it evolves.  Perhaps when he was in the Senate for so long, he was at a comfortable, low-stress frame of mind where it was minimized.  It is often maximized in high-stress situations like what he's going through now.  Instead of speaking just before Congress as he's comfortably done for years and years, he's speaking in front of the whole world in one of the most watched elections ever.

Of course it's possible that you're right to some or the entire degree, all I'm saying is I didn't know he has a stutter before he ran for president, and once I sat down and watched him speak, I could tell instantly.

[ignatius]

Just now, randomsummer said:

Fair enough, but a stammer isn't a static thing, it evolves.  Perhaps when he was in the Senate for so long, he was at a comfortable, low-stress frame of mind where it was minimized.  It is often maximized in high-stress situations like what he's going through now.  Instead of speaking just before Congress as he's comfortably done for years and years, he's speaking in front of the whole world in one of the most watched elections ever.

Of course it's possible that you're right to some or the entire degree, all I'm saying is I didn't know he has a stutter before he ran for president, and once I sat down and watched him speak, I could tell instantly.

I'd also argue that the social distancing rules have proved stressful. he's been going through withdrawal since he hasn't been able to sniff the hair of random women since january.