2020 US Election

[Rubin Farr]

 

[ignatius]

 

[EdamAnchorman]

Tucker's face is just so punchable.

[Rubin Farr]

11 hours ago, ignatius said:

 

If those two fuckers went down in a plane crash together, the world would be a better place. 

[ignatius]

 

[may be rude]

we went from a pre-internet world of not really being able to figure out what was really going on, to this new world where it's possible to dig in but it's a complicated, long, and skilled job to cross-reference numerous sources, resolve discrepancies, operate with probabilities and unknowns, and determine which information sources are relatively veracious, and to know how to evaluate a given piece of information. people don't know implicit and explicit. forget about logically strong arguments and good faith debate. people don't know what an argument is. i get to be the one to teach people what a conclusion is, and what it means for a conclusion to be supported. we have centuries to go before it's not like a herd of cattle in the US. 

 

but hey these people want to understand things, and we can engage them on that and encourage that impulse. we are all coming from the same place. we're just descended from chimps and we're fucking dumb, but we inherited clothing and planes so we think we're geniuses. and what most people gleaned from growing up is bravado and asserting confidence totally regardless of logical support. in fact, people have a learned practice of attacking anyone who requests the logical support of a conclusion. 

 

it's funny because it's hard to explain how one knows something. and these are important conversations that would be benefical to take place. but even a lot of the better actors, when challenged on logical grounds, are unwilling to reveal their own difficulty at articulating how we know this or how we know that. we need to get better at those conversations. as hard as it is. it's such a huge mess.

 

it would be great if we could make some progress on the malicious actors who are actively targetting this vulnerability of people's minds.... it's a big thing and we would notice a big improvement in the situation if somehow we could drive these disinfo wizards back. 

 

boggles my fucking mind to see host vessels utterly hijacked by fossil fuel narratives, telling me that green energy is the crooked deceiver operation. like wow, it's not obvious how oil money is THE juggernaut of political influence, and is desperate to confuse people on the subject? the greenhouse gas equation is 5th grader shit. look at the exhaust everywhere, learn what a greenhouse gas is, and understand. there are like 3 charts that could get a caveman up to speed, but people are utterly susceptible to manipulation.

Edited November 6, 2021 by trying to be less rude

[zero]

^ I honestly thought we were doing ok until 2016 happened. Trumpism is the catalyst here imo. he has really given all the crazies validation. why listen to facts when you can make shit up that fits your narrative, and then argue in bad faith against anyone who tries and proves you wrong. the POTUS does it all the time, so we can too! social media platforms are also to blame with the advancement of believing complete and utter nonsense. but yeah, how to fix it is the question...

[ignatius]

8 minutes ago, zero said:

how to fix it is the question...

napalm applied liberally. 

[EdamAnchorman]

The internet and social media have weaponized stupidity.

[exitonly]

4 hours ago, ignatius said:

 

if we could just get this jfk jr reanimation cult into the kool-aid thing, this would solve itself

[may be rude]

meanwhile, today is election day, though an off year. the 2 state-wide seats that were up were governorships in VA and NJ. the VA race was competitve and is viewed as a bellweather for how things may go in the midterms, next year. results are coming in and it looks like fox turned voters out with critical race theory (which is not actually taught in schools). the republican looks likely to win, youngkin, who is a trumpist.

the GOP is now the orange party. the information situation is bad.

the dems need a lot of help, next year, to not lose the house. 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by trying to be less rude

[ignatius]

saw a story about VA elections and it was focusing on white suburban moms who are upset about distance learning and school not being open last year. one woman saying all her trump hating friends were voting for the republican because... reasons? 

it's typical shit really. 

in biden's infrastructure deals go thru and he loses. you can bet whatever republican is elected will take credit for any good news. 

edit: also, worth mentioning that in VA the DNC passed over two good, strong candidates because they're black women and they didn't think putting a black woman atop the ticket would work.. even though it generally improves turnout. democrats didn't do anything right.. again. they had a lazy campaign with uncreative strategies etc and it's all just bullshit. also people are giving up on the democrats because they just don't deliver results when they do get elected. they make promises and then don't deliver. this isn't new but people are sick of the pandering and giving up on electoral politics and don't show up. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by ignatius

[ignatius]

lols. maybe so. 

[may be rude]

10 minutes ago, ignatius said:

lols. maybe so. 

no, ig. schumer did not tell senema and man chin to be chumps. they are just chumps. and no, the dems don't have enough votes to pass whatever, they have the slimmest possible majority, which is seriously hampered by the filibuster.

sorry, but people will believe stuff if you say it to them. the dems are not a nefarious cabal. it's possible to watch the slow-mo play-by-play and it's just a circus of fallible humans.

Edited November 5, 2021 by trying to be less rude

[ignatius]

24 minutes ago, trying to be less rude said:

no, ig. schumer did not tell senema and man chin to be chumps. they are just chumps. and no, the dems don't have enough votes to pass whatever, they have the slimmest possible majority, which is seriously hampered by the filibuster.

sorry, but people will believe stuff if you say it to them. the dems are not a nefarious cabal. it's possible to watch the slow-mo play-by-play and it's just a circus of fallible humans.

it's just someone's theory. that there are 'fall guys' for a given situation. it's certainly possible. 

[may be rude]

36 minutes ago, ignatius said:

it's just someone's theory. that there are 'fall guys' for a given situation. it's certainly possible. 

i am just trying to keep an eye on the neighborhood, and report my findings. i'm not seeing that. manchin represents a coal state and his son took a coal job and they got manchin to invest in the company and he made a half mil on it last year. because of the filibuster, dems had to pass everything budget related through reconciliation, which means the whole dem/biden agenda is in this reconciliation bill. so that bill has climate stuff along with everything else. his plan was to front that his objection was over the price tag, and to act like he needed to haggle it down. jayapal & the progs smelled that he was trying to get the reconciliation aka build back better bill to fall by the wayside, so they used their leverage to ensure it passed (the BBB bill was agreed to be attached to the bipartisan infrastructure bill, and he tried to decouple them, after originally agreeing). he had to play out his pretext for the voters, haggling down the dem agenda. it looks like the climate stuff remaining in the bill is still good and sizable, at least. 

sinema seems like a greedy jerk. honestly. pretty sure all her friends are lobbyists, and she loves getting their takes on things. she is raising a lot of money all of a sudden, at this time when she is shielding corporate influencers, with the repubs. i think she thinks she can get away with the cash grab.

pols care about getting reelected and they all want the dem agenda to pass. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by trying to be less rude

[ignatius]

1 minute ago, trying to be less rude said:

sinema seems like a greedy jerk.

yeah.. i mean.. a lot of them are but def her and manchin as well. not just cash grabs and campaign funding but i'm sure there's some dark money ending up as stocks or something that is a payday for both of them. they all have their corporate masters

[may be rude]

2 minutes ago, ignatius said:

yeah.. i mean.. a lot of them are but def her and manchin as well. not just cash grabs and campaign funding but i'm sure there's some dark money ending up as stocks or something that is a payday for both of them. they all have their corporate masters

i certainly would not say "they all" do. with sinema, yes, i think she is motivated by making deals for personal wealth. 

though i'd still take her over jeff flake. 

[ignatius]

32 minutes ago, trying to be less rude said:

i certainly would not say "they all" do. with sinema, yes, i think she is motivated by making deals for personal wealth. 

though i'd still take her over jeff flake. 

i think there's degrees of influence. some are total shills others stick to their principles as much as possible but bend more than they'd like to. ideally.. because of outside influence. 

[may be rude]

44 minutes ago, ignatius said:

i think there's degrees of influence. some are total shills others stick to their principles as much as possible but bend more than they'd like to. ideally.. because of outside influence. 

i just think i should stand up for what i believe in here because such generalizations are used for political manipulation. i could run and take (campaign) money and not gaf when it comes to my voting on bills. i think plenty do. some certainly navigate grey area, but i don't find it logically compelling to conclude that all do. i see plenty of righteous folks devoting their lives to public service and the ideals of representative democracy. honestly

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by trying to be less rude

[zero]

I can't shake a fairly defeatist attitude about American politics in general right now. media's done an excellent job of mind warping the populace, turning this all into a big ball of doom and gloom. like we're just waiting around for the ticking time bomb that will undoubtedly go off in the next year or 2 before 2024. we all know the orange Klan are currently plotting their return to the throne. I would suspect it's only a matter of time before dumbo whirls up the campaign trail rallies, puts the band back together to blast out more macho man cheese. I really don't even want to think about that shit tho, as it feels like we're still just getting over the 2016-2020 nightmare. I do hope dems can keep it together long enough to accomplish some meaningful changes in this country. but knowing the idiot brigade are waiting around the corner, ready to undo everything that makes an iota of sense, is kinda unnerving. 

[ignatius]

31 minutes ago, trying to be less rude said:

i see plenty of righteous folks devoting their lives to public service and the ideals of representative democracy. honestly

and some of them are republicans. the point is at some point people lose faith in electoral politics and don't see the system as effecting their lives in a good way.. there are parts of this country and population that haven't been moved much one way or the other regardless of who is in control. at some point these people leave the system and depend on mutual aid if it exists or find other ways to survive. 

the system just doesn't work for a big part of this population and it never has. 

edeit: just saying.. when it comes to congress and public service etc that comes in all forms and shapes and the power struggle still exists among tthese people who's ideas are all over the map. being righteous and dedicated to democracy doesn't mean a person is going to have good ideas about taking care of people and making progress on climatet change or whatetver we think it important. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by ignatius

[may be rude]

7 hours ago, zero said:

I can't shake a fairly defeatist attitude about American politics in general right now. media's done an excellent job of mind warping the populace, turning this all into a big ball of doom and gloom. like we're just waiting around for the ticking time bomb that will undoubtedly go off in the next year or 2 before 2024. we all know the orange Klan are currently plotting their return to the throne. I would suspect it's only a matter of time before dumbo whirls up the campaign trail rallies, puts the band back together to blast out more macho man cheese. I really don't even want to think about that shit tho, as it feels like we're still just getting over the 2016-2020 nightmare. I do hope dems can keep it together long enough to accomplish some meaningful changes in this country. but knowing the idiot brigade are waiting around the corner, ready to undo everything that makes an iota of sense, is kinda unnerving. 

yeah, it's nuts. the mixed up fascist contingent seem like a bunch of manipulated fools. so, in a sense, this means they are weaker than they seem. they do not have the courage of their convictions. maybe hitler's supporters were, too, but they had the wounds of ww1 to fuel them.

but this also speaks to the real nature of the situation, which is just informational mayhem, and the effectiveness of political manipulation in the modern info space. the situation forces a move: we either evolve to a higher level that can withstand modernity, or we don't. 

in terms of where we are now, i'm worried about elections continuing to leave the left stymied by the right. the right need to take the back seat for a while. that's the shot. 

but yeah smart money may not take even odds on american democracy surviving 10 years. we came way way too close. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by trying to be less rude

[may be rude]

6 minutes ago, ignatius said:

and some of them are republicans. the point is at some point people lose faith in electoral politics and don't see the system as effecting their lives in a good way.. there are parts of this country and population that haven't been moved much one way or the other regardless of who is in control. at some point these people leave the system and depend on mutual aid if it exists or find other ways to survive. 

the system just doesn't work for a big part of this population and it never has. 

it would be cool to have a government that runs well. i think we got to this place by disengagement, and the way out is engagement.

that's why i don't miss a chance to refute defeatist attitudes.

[ignatius]

12 minutes ago, trying to be less rude said:

it would be cool to have a government that runs well. i think we got to this place by disengagement, and the way out is engagement.

that's why i don't miss a chance to refute defeatist attitudes.

i don't think engagement has to be with the government. there are other ways to engage. see black panthers in the 60s or any other community organizing to solve problems directly. 

but i hear you. i still vote. i think often the best to hope for with voting is some measure of harm reduction. it's like making the choice to have someone shit next to your foot so you can see it and step over it vs someone shitting directly into your mouth. 

sometimes it's possible to improve things a little bit for a part of the population that needs help but still a lot of people are left out of that partial half way solution. 

i don't we can lay the blame of where the USA is at the feet of a disengaged population.. sure.. if everyone voted it'd be better maybe.. but it took a while to get where we're at.. and a lot of it was many intentional steps chipping away at things over decades by changing laws that allow for more money in politics, fewer regulations over complex systems and directly altering the way taxes work to benefit the few.

dis/misinformation isn't new. it's been used forever in many ways at many times to swing voters one way or another. sure, it's weaponized and something else currently but media spin and media leaks and "swift boating" and willy horton etc type shit has been around since the beginning. 

i don't think it's defeatist to say "yeah.. this whole fucking thing is rigged and i'm going to do something else that is more productive for my neighborhood and community"