2020 US Election

[zero]

^ fake news! 

 

On 10/9/2022 at 8:12 PM, rek said:

politics are yucky, mainly because people believe in them.

I'd argue people "believed" in them. nowadays no one believes in anything political unless it is fed to them in an echo chamber.

politics as a vessel for the truth has been eroding away rapidly over the years, has devolved into nothing more than tabloid fodder. it is hard to believe a word out of any fucking politicians mouth, since they are all cowards, hiding what they really think or feel. none of these assholes should be leading humanity anywhere. we (and I mean this modern day version of humanity) should all be following a path guided by scientific fact, not emotionally charged decision making...but a lot of humans are dumb, and just listen to whoever shouts the loudest in the simplest of terms. most scientists are too wordy, can't succinctly get their message across to the masses in confident sounding microphone soundbites the way politicians do. guys like Sagan had this ability, but he wasn't like a president or anything. how can we elect scientists to govern us? that is what humanity should be heading towards, instead of re-electing fucking con men like trump.    

[may be rude]

ignoring politics is what they want you to do

[zero]

10 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

ignoring politics is what they want you to do

politics is mostly blowing smoke up constituents ass. say whatever the fuck to get elected, then make up excuses when the shit doesn't play out because of blockading from the other side. look what politics has been whittled down to in this country. we have one party that has drank the bat shit kool aid, and is no longer a viable option for any sane individual. so then we have the other party, the dems, which are now looked at as the harvey dent white knights of the land, and they don't seem to have their shit together. so there really isn't any option to truly vote for what most individuals want, like the peaceful harmonious shit most of us know is necessary to survive as a species. just fight one side vs. the other, and it goes nowhere. believe what you want, but humans truly suck at leading other humans. that's why its best just to tune it all out, and listen to only yourself. listening to these fuck nuts is what gets everyone all messed up to begin with.

[may be rude]

14 hours ago, zero said:

On 10/18/2022 at 2:32 PM, trying to be less rude said:

ignoring politics is what they want you to do

politics is mostly blowing smoke up constituents ass. say whatever the fuck to get elected, then make up excuses when the shit doesn't play out because of blockading from the other side. look what politics has been whittled down to in this country. we have one party that has drank the bat shit kool aid, and is no longer a viable option for any sane individual. so then we have the other party, the dems, which are now looked at as the harvey dent white knights of the land, and they don't seem to have their shit together. so there really isn't any option to truly vote for what most individuals want, like the peaceful harmonious shit most of us know is necessary to survive as a species. just fight one side vs. the other, and it goes nowhere. believe what you want, but humans truly suck at leading other humans. that's why its best just to tune it all out, and listen to only yourself. listening to these fuck nuts is what gets everyone all messed up to begin with.

 

the difference between the parties, in reality, could not be more stark. for one party, roughly most of the members in congress participated in helping a tyrant attempt to deal a fatal blow to american freedom. this is fascism. this is power for power's sake, by any means. you say the dems "don't seem to have their shit together" and so you don't know who to vote for or don't see the difference? i have to tell you that you are not getting good information. i recommend AP News and CBC World News. these dems who you think don't seem to have their shit together are the ones who made the difference in whether or not america now is a fascist dystopia. they saved it. they had their shit together enough to do that, and i could go on with positive things they do.

 

however, there is tons of information noise, which really does a pretty good job of preventing people from getting in touch with reality. would you be surprised to learn that deceptive tricks are played on people to mislead them about dems? would you be surprised to learn that in the last 10-15 years, as a result of the shift to the internet, people are falling for deceptive narratives at a concerning level, these days? because that's the case. people believe a lot of junk about the dems that is inaccurate. so, if someone gripes about dems to you, don't just assume they know what they're talking about. it's not unlikley that they are believing manufactured narratives intended to sour them on voting for dems. 

 

proportionality is the crux. this is how deceivers get people. the big picture is so big that 99% of people don't have it. there are always narratives that can be used to bend someone's ear. some operators are good at just flooding lists of misleading blurbs that lead people to an intended conclusion simply by curating a selection of plausible suggestions. 2 maybes does not equal one definite. This is the vulnerability. You can list 50 curated maybes in front of someone, selected to produce an intended sentiment in that person. it works. even when it's a lot of bs. 

 

honestly that's the only thing preventing 80% of voters from voting dem. bullshit. there's no reason to vote for the gop at the national level in the US in 2022. none. and there are extremely dire reasons to vote blue. if everyone were magically informed accurately about everything, the gop would have like 5% of seats in congress

Edited October 19, 2022 by trying to be less rude

[zero]

3 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

you say the dems "don't seem to have their shit together" and so you don't know who to vote for or don't see the difference? i have to tell you that you are not getting good information. 

I do see the difference. I am voting dem because the R party is totally bat shit. the fact that the dems are not doing a better job of securing their position as the only viable option right now (and will more than likely lose ground in the mid terms) is what made me make the "don't have their shit together" comment. but I do get that they are fighting a largely losing battle trying to convince any R person to potentially switch sides, since most R team peeps have dug so far into the BS, they are not gonna budge.

 

3 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

proportionality is the crux. this is how deceivers get people. the big picture is so big that 99% of people don't have it.

yes. most people can't see the big picture on a lot of stuff. foresight, planning for things long term, is unfortunately not a skill that comes naturally to people. it takes mental concentration, clear reasoning skills, empathy, experience, etc., and that is becoming less and less the norm, thanks to all the distractions one is faced with on a daily basis. smart phones are the ultimate tool to distract everyone from what's really going on. easy to stare at a screen and fill yourself with images and text that have been fed to you through marketing ploys and tactics to buy into whatever it is being offered/promoted. don't pay full attention to the environment around you. again, a generalization here, but I see it all the time out in the wild.

 

3 hours ago, trying to be less rude said:

honestly that's the only thing preventing 80% of voters from voting dem. bullshit. there's no reason to vote for the gop at the national level in the US in 2022. none. and there are extremely dire reasons to vote blue. if everyone were magically informed accurately about everything, the gop would have like 5% of seats in congress

agreed

[rek]

'both' 'sides' say the other 'side' is 'bad' and each 'good model citizen' is certain of that, based on 'facts'

they'll defend those 'facts' till they quit or they die, all the while imagining there was some line somewhere that divided red and blue

the line dissolves either before or after death.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by rek

[may be rude]

2 hours ago, rek said:

'both' 'sides' say the other 'side' is 'bad' and each 'good model citizen' is certain of that, based on 'facts'

they'll defend those 'facts' till they quit or they die, all the while imagining there was some line somewhere that divided red and blue

the line dissolves either before or after death.

 

 

wow, poetic. 

 

hey, truth exists. if people disagree then maybe someone is wrong? just throwing that out there

[rek]

On 10/20/2022 at 4:04 AM, trying to be less rude said:

wow, poetic. 

 

hey, truth exists. if people disagree then maybe someone is wrong? just throwing that out there

i guess, but "both" the red and the blue side (false dichotomy but i digress) are fervently sure they are right and the other is wrong, nobody who is on one or the other side is trying to change their mind either.

[may be rude]

6 hours ago, rek said:

i guess, but "both" the red and the blue side (false dichotomy but i digress) are fervently sure they are right and the other is wrong, nobody who is on one or the other side is trying to change their mind either.

oh, i think i know what you mean. society needs to focus more on debate. getting both sides next to each other and resolving the discrepancies. definitely. 

 

bubbles are a feature of the new info space. 

 

there are people who engage, cross-silo. i'm out here, doing it. plenty of activists going around doing persuasion, this october.

 

also, not everyone is fervently sure they're right. actually that's a key thing. people know when they don't know. even these victims of organized gaslighting. some snap and go on mass shootings. they feel the disconnect in their soul, even if the brainwashing is of cutting-edge sophistication. they know they don't know. i know i know. there are many things that are just clear to me and about which i am certain, regarding politics. so i actually have direct and definite experience of being certain and being able to perceive that the other side is not. the right is utterly swarmed with malicious deception right now. the victims know they don't know. the bullshitters know they don't know (or know they're lying). what the deceived may be driven by is actually not certainty but cynicism. they're told it's all lies and everyone lies and it doesn't matter, and that enables them to be frivolous and to pass along narratives they have not verified.

Edited October 21, 2022 by trying to be less rude

[EdamAnchorman]

"Knowing" and right / wrong implies we are talking about facts.  A large part of this, IMO, is people voting on their beliefs regarding issues where there is no objective right or wrong.  Conservatism vs. liberalism, is one right and one wrong?  Politicians and media have turned this into a game, pitting each side against the other so that they can make money off of us clicking and watching all the time.  In turn, we have lost the willingness to compromise on these "gray" issues, and that is a HUGE problem.

[may be rude]

18 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

"Knowing" and right / wrong implies we are talking about facts.  A large part of this, IMO, is people voting on their beliefs regarding issues where there is no objective right or wrong.  Conservatism vs. liberalism, is one right and one wrong?  Politicians and media have turned this into a game, pitting each side against the other so that they can make money off of us clicking and watching all the time.  In turn, we have lost the willingness to compromise on these "gray" issues, and that is a HUGE problem.

 

 

some political topics have some subjective opinion involved but for many there is objective fact.

 

also this election is not about classic topics like social security. this is about preserving the democracy.

 

inconvenient truths are disputed by those they are inconvenient for. that doesn't make everything opinion.

[EdamAnchorman]

Totally agree, I was just making the point that for the aspects where there is no objective fact, the current climate doesn't allow for reasonable debate and compromise at all. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by randomsummer

[luke viia]

I really wish there was a way to opt out of receiving political junk mail. I am being bombarded with multiple "Paid for by the Republican Freedom and Whatever Committee" full color ads every single day. The democrat ads suck too, but at least they're sometimes positive instead of 100% egregious hit pieces. This isn't anything new, but I'm in a ranting mood.

I am grateful to live in a place that uses a good voter information system each election cycle: we are automatically mailed "Official Voter's Pamphlets" by the state and/or county with lots of information, including write-ups for every candidate, contact info for all relevant offices, budget information, voting records, arguments and rebuttals for various propositions (with the credentials and donors listed for each writer), etc -- certainly enough to let you look into the issues more thoroughly on your own. It's all available online, as well. So I'm not entirely uninformed (...you do still have to skim the thing at a minimum, of course). I do, for the record, believe it is better to be uninformed than misinformed. That's a good little proverb and goes at least as far back as Jefferson. I particularly sympathize with voters in US states that do not have any kind of helpful system like the one in my state, because it means that for those poor souls these stupid PAC ads are likely the primary source of "information" (along with social media, local TV ads, and maybe op eds in the the local paper). Ugh. The US sucks so bad. Rhetoric is only wielded by the worst people. By rhetoric I just mean "effective communication," btw. I don't even mean "persuasive," though that's obviously a huge part of it wrt politics, and being persuaded by propaganda -- here I mean emotionally charged half-truth relying on our own servile stupidity to do its job -- is naturally disastrous. Rhetorical skill is not something I possess in great degree, but at least I can often spot when others are being tricky, whether I agree with them or not. Be aware that this entire post is attempting to be persuasive, and while I'd appreciate if you try to read it sympathetically the first time you see it, you should also question me once you grok what I'm trying to say. Given how painfully over-the-top these political ads are, I feel at least somewhat confident claiming that most people don't even think about this, or likely even know how to think about it, and are happy to be manipulated so long as it's reinforcing something they intuitively believe ("tax bad," "defund police good," etc). There's literally an ad in my trash bin right now repeatedly using the ridiculous epithet "Anti-child" because the candidate apparently voted to keep schools closed during the height of covid. The point it's trying to make, I suppose, is that kids are dumber now due to schools being closed. And who's going to buy that line? People who have trouble thinking critically and can only soak up the biggest & boldest capslock message printed in shiny blood red type, and once it does soak in, parrot it back to their spouses and friends, masking the origin of the claim and creating a much more difficult to undo line of reasoning such as "well, my friend told me _______ and why would they lie to me?"

nice knowing ya, reason

[luke viia]

A few more quick points:

- I should have been more clear that I was talking about local elections. National politics is even worse.

- I don't believe that the people employing this propaganda necessarily understand what they're doing. It seems likely enough that they (at least sometimes) believe their own nonsense and consider what they're printing to be a public service. The advertisers obviously have a better idea of how it all works, but the people funding the messages? Their motives aren't as clear. They could be shadowy bastards; they could just be morons.

[rek]

the uniparty just needs our consent to continue doing unbelievably egregious things, after all we would have voted for either it's left hand or it's right hand.

[ignatius]

21 hours ago, rek said:

the uniparty just needs our consent to continue doing unbelievably egregious things, after all we would have voted for either it's left hand or it's right hand.

idk.. seems like we're getting Four Loko vs Pepsi

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-repeatedly-discussing-marjorie-taylor-greene-running-mate-2022-10

For months, Trump has 'repeatedly' discussed choosing Marjorie Taylor Greene as his 2024 running mate: journalist

[rek]

1 minute ago, ignatius said:

idk.. seems like we're getting Four Loko vs Pepsi

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-repeatedly-discussing-marjorie-taylor-greene-running-mate-2022-10

For months, Trump has 'repeatedly' discussed choosing Marjorie Taylor Greene as his 2024 running mate: journalist

sure, but both sides have the same vitriol for each other. the error is believing any of it. when people become true believers they get invested and dig in to their positions. the two sides as i see it (not that i pretend my opinion matters, unless it's the wrong one of course,) one 'side' is dominated by feelings and the other is dominated by logic. it's the hemispheres of the brain really, and they work best if they work together, but now they are dividing. it's melon chop time.

[ignatius]

good morning. 

 

[may be rude]

it will be important that people act correctly. we're already in a period of political violence. trump apparently is forcing doj to indict him by continuing to not return some documents. and he will dog whistle call for violence (already has).

 

very unfortunate and unnecessary. trump killed ashley babbit.

[Nebraska]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:06 PM, ignatius said:

idk.. seems like we're getting Four Loko vs Pepsi

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-repeatedly-discussing-marjorie-taylor-greene-running-mate-2022-10

For months, Trump has 'repeatedly' discussed choosing Marjorie Taylor Greene as his 2024 running mate: journalist

that's coz their cooking up their own "jan 6th investigation" plus biden's election denial and corruption probe. and theirs isn't political coz they have all the evidence they need

 

[ignatius]

hmm. 

Quote

 

SAN FRANCISCO, Oct 28 (Reuters) - U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul Pelosi was assaulted during a break-in at the couple's San Francisco home early on Friday and a suspect has been arrested, authorities said.

 

The Capitol Police said a motive for the attack was still under investigation. The Associated Press reported that the attack was not random and the assailant specifically targeted the home. The speaker's office said Paul Pelosi was

"violently assaulted."

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-house-speaker-pelosis-husband-violently-assaulted-pelosi-statement-2022-10-28/

also:

Edited October 28, 2022 by ignatius

[Nebraska]

^^^ ultra maga is moving fast with phase 4 of the takeover

 

[may be rude]

On 10/22/2022 at 3:12 PM, rek said:

sure, but both sides have the same vitriol for each other. the error is believing any of it. when people become true believers they get invested and dig in to their positions. the two sides as i see it (not that i pretend my opinion matters, unless it's the wrong one of course,) one 'side' is dominated by feelings and the other is dominated by logic. it's the hemispheres of the brain really, and they work best if they work together, but now they are dividing. it's melon chop time.

truth exists. i don't totally trust anyone. i resolve discrepancies and figure out what's real. some elected officials are better than others and right now the difference is enormous and the worse side is out there trying to make people think it's all the same. you're hijacked, spreading that shit

Edited October 29, 2022 by trying to be less rude

[Rubin Farr]

[ignatius]