2020 US Election

[zlemflolia]

3 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Nobody is out there creating poverty (unless you’re a minority in one of those places, then god help you-note, some sarcasm there), there is limitless opportunity for us in these countries. Especially as a white dude, which I assume is 95% of this board. 

so you admit there is intentionally created poverty in these countries? thought you said there's no capitalist oppression there.  try protesting capital and marijuana jail sentences in the US and you'll get your skull bashed by cops with batons.  the state only exists to protect capital, and capital only exists to construct scenarios off which it can allow its owner to receive profit for doing no work

[Candiru]

Nah, I’ve been to a few protests in the US and the cops were all basically like, “hey guys, we agree with you, lolz, have fun guys, don’t get hurt <3”

People really had to go out of their way to get pepper sprayed, which I think they just did for the Instagram 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Candiru

[chenGOD]

3 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

so you admit there is intentionally created poverty in these countries? thought you said there's no capitalist oppression there.  try protesting capital and marijuana jail sentences in the US and you'll get your skull bashed by cops with batons.  the state only exists to protect capital, and capital only exists to construct scenarios off which it can allow its owner to receive profit for doing no work

Did you read the line “nobody is out there creating poverty”? What part of that did you have problems with?

The state exists to serve society, all parts of it. 
 

yeah, all those baton wielding thugs at this protest: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-04-02/hundreds-inhale-pot-at-surreal-white-house-protest

 

Or this one: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inauguration-2017/it-s-lit-legal-weed-advocates-roll-4-200-joints-n708191

 

 

[ignatius]

2 hours ago, Candiru said:

Nah, I’ve been to a few protests in the US and the cops were all basically like, “hey guys, we agree with you, lolz, have fun guys, don’t get hurt <3”

People really had to go out of their way to get pepper sprayed, which I think they just did for the Instagram 

i've been to several protests and marches as far back as 1998/99 and saw people get indiscriminately tear gassed and pepper sprayed and asses wooped as a means to direct a crowd or end a protest etc. 

i do think often the cops are conflicted but just as often they are happy to be out there 'in the shit'.  one protest i went to in miami for the FTAA trade thing looked like miami dragged every fat ass cop from behind a desk and put riot gear on him. it was ridiculous and there was mayhem on that day for sure. 

wiling to admit sometimes protestors cross the line and sometimes the cops do and that's what gets the ball rolling but there's lot's of totally unnecessary force that happens. 

before the WTO protests in seattle that went crazy w/lot's of property destruction etc that was a build up of tensions over months and months of conflicts between anarchists, protestors and cops. what really kicked off the rise in violence was weeks prior to the WTO when some environmental activists were protesting in a park trying to save it from becoming a parking lot. it was full of big old trees and they had chained themselves to and in the trees and wouldn't come out no matter what. after quite some time the police decided to pull down the pants of the people in the trees and directly pepper spray their genitals. brutal stuff. so, after that all the people involved in these kinds of things had had enough and were totally on board w/wrecking shit. one article i read w/an interview of one of the anarchist types said "well, we realized that the only language they seem to understand is violence and destruction so if that's the way it's gonna be then that's what we'll do" - paraphrasing that but it added up to all those people really pissed off w/short fuses at the WTO protests in downtown seattle. which led to lot's of corporate damage and not taking any shit from cops. 

here i portland there's been several times the police outright conspired with the proud boy patriot prayer groups. it's kinda fucked up. 

[Candiru]

Sounds gnarly. I guess since the ones I went to were anti-Trump and in Boston, all the cops were like “well like yeah, no duh, kids”

[ignatius]

4 minutes ago, Candiru said:

Sounds gnarly. I guess since the ones I went to were anti-Trump and in Boston, all the cops were like “well like yeah, no duh, kids”

but tom brady loves trump. doesn't that mean patriot fans have to love him too?

[zlemflolia]

5 hours ago, ignatius said:

i've been to several protests and marches as far back as 1998/99 and saw people get indiscriminately tear gassed and pepper sprayed and asses wooped as a means to direct a crowd or end a protest etc. 

i do think often the cops are conflicted but just as often they are happy to be out there 'in the shit'.  one protest i went to in miami for the FTAA trade thing looked like miami dragged every fat ass cop from behind a desk and put riot gear on him. it was ridiculous and there was mayhem on that day for sure. 

wiling to admit sometimes protestors cross the line and sometimes the cops do and that's what gets the ball rolling but there's lot's of totally unnecessary force that happens. 

before the WTO protests in seattle that went crazy w/lot's of property destruction etc that was a build up of tensions over months and months of conflicts between anarchists, protestors and cops. what really kicked off the rise in violence was weeks prior to the WTO when some environmental activists were protesting in a park trying to save it from becoming a parking lot. it was full of big old trees and they had chained themselves to and in the trees and wouldn't come out no matter what. after quite some time the police decided to pull down the pants of the people in the trees and directly pepper spray their genitals. brutal stuff. so, after that all the people involved in these kinds of things had had enough and were totally on board w/wrecking shit. one article i read w/an interview of one of the anarchist types said "well, we realized that the only language they seem to understand is violence and destruction so if that's the way it's gonna be then that's what we'll do" - paraphrasing that but it added up to all those people really pissed off w/short fuses at the WTO protests in downtown seattle. which led to lot's of corporate damage and not taking any shit from cops. 

here i portland there's been several times the police outright conspired with the proud boy patriot prayer groups. it's kinda fucked up. 

jesus christ, i had no idea about the genital pepper spraying

obligatory link of very radicalizing WTO protest documentary

 

[zlemflolia]

5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Did you read the line “nobody is out there creating poverty”? What part of that did you have problems with?

The state exists to serve society, all parts of it. 

you really think this still?  sounds like a very privileged take, not sure what country you're from, in the US it definitely doesn't

[zlemflolia]

police create poverty in poor areas, for-profit prisons create poverty, states and the federal government create poverty by austerity measures imposed on minority areas, the list goes on and on.  war creates poverty, and there are countless think-tanks pushing pro-war agendas because they're funded by the weapons industry.  how can you possibly say nobody's intentionally creating poverty when that's literally what's happening?

poverty is big business.  you can forcibly extract a lot of wealth from the poor through prison labor and debt traps

Edited February 25, 2020 by Zeffolia

[auxien]

once Bernie's president and enacts instant nationwide socialism no one will ever be poor in America again

[dingformung]

7 minutes ago, auxien said:

once Bernie's president and enacts instant nationwide socialism no one will ever be poor in America again

[Brisbot]

53 minutes ago, auxien said:

once Bernie's president and enacts instant nationwide socialism no one will ever be poor in America again

So how long do we have to pretend that we aren't communist sleeper cells?.... Comrade?

[goDel]

He's the frontrunner now, so why not pull out the communist flags and go stand on a street corner? 

[Brisbot]

12 minutes ago, goDel said:

He's the frontrunner now, so why not pull out the communist flags and go stand on a street corner? 

When you put on the shades from "They Live" that's actually all you see when you go to Bernie Rallies.

[zlemflolia]

this thread's getting really radical

[goDel]

35 minutes ago, Brisbot said:

When you put on the shades from "They Live" that's actually all you see when you go to Bernie Rallies.

In all fairness though, the same holds for Trump rallies. ;D

[zlemflolia]

1 hour ago, goDel said:

He's the frontrunner now, so why not pull out the communist flags and go stand on a street corner? 

you mean authoritarian state capitalist flag?

Edited February 25, 2020 by Zeffolia

[chenGOD]

3 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

police create poverty in poor areas, for-profit prisons create poverty, states and the federal government create poverty by austerity measures imposed on minority areas, the list goes on and on.  war creates poverty, and there are countless think-tanks pushing pro-war agendas because they're funded by the weapons industry.  how can you possibly say nobody's intentionally creating poverty when that's literally what's happening?

poverty is big business.  you can forcibly extract a lot of wealth from the poor through prison labor and debt traps

Police create poverty in poor areas? Wtf does that even mean? The area is poor already so how are the police creating poverty? 
 

what austerity measures do the state and federal governments impose on minority areas that create poverty? Be specific. You’re the one making these claims.
 

[chenGOD]

10 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

you mean authoritarian state capitalist flag?

Funny how they went from communist to authoritarian state capitalist and in doing so dragged  three-quarters of a billion people out of poverty. 
unless you want to argue that China wasn’t communist under Mao...

[dingformung]

China wasn’t communist under Mao...

 

Plus this is a pretty silly discussion. Why even bring it up?

Edited February 25, 2020 by darreichungsform

[zlemflolia]

7 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Police create poverty in poor areas? Wtf does that even mean? The area is poor already so how are the police creating poverty? 
 

what austerity measures do the state and federal governments impose on minority areas that create poverty? Be specific. You’re the one making these claims.
 

police create poverty in poor areas by arresting 16-30 year old minority men disproportionately, giving them a criminal record from which they can't find employment or loans, resulting in them turning to crime disproportionately to support their families.  it's a cycle, the school to prison pipeline

https://www.aclu.org/issues/juvenile-justice/school-prison-pipeline

poor people disproportionately can't find steady housing, and they disproportionately are pushed into areas with lead paint apartments and unclean water systems, which decrease IQ due to brain damage, increasing aggression and crime rates.  poor and minority people are oppressed by the state and by capitalists, it's very clear.  what are you suggesting exactly, that they choose this?

[zlemflolia]

11 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Funny how they went from communist to authoritarian state capitalist and in doing so dragged  three-quarters of a billion people out of poverty. 
unless you want to argue that China wasn’t communist under Mao...

i'm ignorant on the topic, all im saying is its not communist currently regardless of how many adjectives they appended to marxism-leninism-maoism-whateverism.  mao would shoot me for being a liberal or whatever, if they were communist it's not a form i approve of

nothing about them now is communist.  they haven't abolished the state, private property/capital, money, etc.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Zeffolia

[zlemflolia]

plus, the idea that china ever could have successfully jumped to communism is unrealistic, considering they were a peasant farmer society.  marx very clearly outlined the material conditions required to implement communism, and they are conditions of heavy capitalist industrialization and the creation of a supremely advanced means of production, off of which to bootstrap communism.  and he specifically said that the revolution must and would come from the most heavily industrialized technological nation of the time at which it occurs, which in that time period was not China, so their attempts were doomed to fail, they had nothing to bootstrap off of

Edited February 25, 2020 by Zeffolia

[goDel]

11 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

i'm ignorant on the topic

Full stop. You could have avoided typing all the other stuff.

[zlemflolia]

9 minutes ago, goDel said:

Full stop. You could have avoided typing all the other stuff.

refute it then and enlighten me