Coronavirus COVID-19

[EdamAnchorman]

3 hours ago, dcom said:

this is also about education: most bullshit peddlers are (statistically) less educated (so don't take this personally and carpet-bomb me in your qualifications, real or imaginary).

 

IMO the most important thing that is learned from a post-secondary education (primarily Ph.D.) is that you learn very quickly that you're absolutely clueless.  You're forced to read mountains and mountains of publications from researchers who have made both large and incremental steps before you; and this mountain of papers is just in your own narrow area of research!  You know when a Ph.D. student is ready to defend their dissertation when you ask them a tough question about their own area of research, and their response is that they don't know (and that it's OK to not know), but they do know where to go look for it and how to piece together different pieces of research to get the answer.

It really causes you to think differently and more critically about things, and to have a more well-adjusted perspective on things like COVID research, even if it's far from your area of research.

[Satans Little Helper]

28 minutes ago, Petajaja said:

For some reason I can't edit my post but I was going to add:

Also to add, I, my partner, my parents, several of my friends have already had Covid and survived it without issue, I see no reason for why we still need to risk out future health with taking a vaccine with no long term safety data. It's funny you mention being part of the greater good and I see this endlessly echo'd now since the pandemic but I didn't see people doing jack for the greater good prior, everyone was more than happy living their selfish little lives ignoring actual racism, actual threat to the environment, actual issues of inequality and injustice in the world.

I have no issues with people who already had covid and survived to not go for a shot of vax. Thing is though, there are still plenty people who didnt have covid and who cant be arsed to got a vax shot either. So in terms of public discussion, it's kinda strange to freely go out and argue against taking a vax as if it's complete waste. Generally speaking that is. Even though you're arguing from a very specific context. And also note there are plenty people who think they had it, but didn't. Want to give them an excuse as well?

The racism and environment issues are strawmen, as far as i'm concerned. Different and separate issues. With vastly different impact on societies and need vastly different solutions. I do agree though that in each of those, we all carry a bit of responsibility. But if you make some blanket statement like "I didn't see people doing jack", it is just that: a blanket statement. There are plenty people who did. And probably plenty who didn't. But I don't think that's an excuse for doing jack when it comes to this pandemic though. Not sure why you even need to bring that shit up? Need an excuse? Does that validate your position? 

Also, solving an issue like racism or the environment is way more complex than this pandemic. It basically takes two shot of vax. That's it. And still people are crying like sensitive snowflakes with their personal freedom being taken. It's two f-ing shots, bunch of cry babies. And it's free.

If those shots would solve racism and save the environment as well, they probably still cry. and make these nonsense arguments. I mean, have valid concerns.

 

 

[dcom]

14 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

It really causes you to think differently and more critically about things, and to have a more well-adjusted perspective on things like COVID research, even if it's far from your area of research.

Yes, critical and metacritical faculties are as important as the ability to assess both knowledge and metaknowledge. Metacognitive skills require learning and they're never ready nor finished, even the most intelligent people believe stupid things. To know and understand you need a mountain of base knowledge and information coupled with the ability to separate wheat from the chaff - and that takes time and dedicated work. I just turned 47 and I'm starting to grudgingly accept that I can know and do anything, but not everything.

Edited July 13, 2021 by dcom

[thefxbip]

A cool thing to do to learn some humility is to take an advanced or expert level textbook on any scientific subject and see how little you know about it.

Edited July 13, 2021 by thefxbip

[Limo]

1 hour ago, Rubin Farr said:

I cannot imagine the carnage that would have ensued in 2021, 

People in India can, though.

Indonesia, with around 10% of its population vaccinated, is on the brink of not having to imagine either.

[dcom]

8 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

A cool thing to do to learn some humility is to take an advanced or expert level textbook on any scientific subject and see how little you know about it.

I'd suggest A New Kind Of Science - it's controversial and hard, so you'll need to flex your connectome in various ways.

Edited July 13, 2021 by dcom

[EdamAnchorman]

20 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

A cool thing to do to learn some humility is to take an advanced or expert level textbook on any scientific subject and see how little you know about it.

I work in a relatively narrow field of research that almost nobody has heard of (rheology).  Been studying and working in that field for 16 years.  I go to the annual conference every year and there's still tons of shit that I don't understand.

My colleagues at work call me the rheology "expert".  Sure, to them I am an expert but even in this narrow field, it takes a lifetime to become a true expert, and even then the expertise may only be in 2 - 3 subsections of the field.  This is precisely why we can't just listen to one or two sources of information and form a rigid opinion, especially about something as serious as covid.  You will have to trust the network of scientists and peer reviewers who have put huge amounts of human-hours into this problem.

[Rubin Farr]

this made me chuckle

[psn]

Admin saying this thread will close next week is a silly joke, right? We're nowhere near the end of this yet. 

[Satans Little Helper]

just create a new one. i'd call it the "please BCM, don't be a chicken and have some covid!"  thread

Edited July 13, 2021 by Satans Little Helper

[dcom]

Just to go further into meta (and although it has been discussed elsewhere, too), the misinformation, conspiracy theories and bullshit are information viruses, evolving and mutating and their field of study is memetics (emphasis mine):

Quote

Memetics is the study of information and culture based on an analogy with Darwinian evolution. Proponents describe memetics as an approach to evolutionary models of cultural information transfer. Memetics describes how an idea can propagate successfully, but doesn't necessarily imply a concept is factual. Critics contend the theory is "untested, unsupported or incorrect". It has been labelled as pseudoscience by many scholars, making memetics unable to establish itself as a recognized research program.

(The irony of memetics being labeled as pseudoscience - untested, unsupported, incorrect - doesn't escape me.)

Edited July 13, 2021 by dcom

[Rubin Farr]

2 minutes ago, dcom said:

Just to go further into meta, the misinformation, conspiracy theories and bullshit are information viruses, evolving and mutating and their field of study is memetics (emphasis mine):

(The irony of memetics being labeled as pseudoscience - untested, unsupported, incorrect - doesn't escape me.)

Like how religion is a disease of language?

[dcom]

4 minutes ago, Rubin Farr said:

Like how religion is a disease of language?

Religion is the second worst and still ongoing pandemic we've ever had. Humanity itself is the worst.

Edited July 13, 2021 by dcom

[cern]

So where did Covid-19 came from? A bat or a lab? 

[Rubin Farr]

6 minutes ago, cern said:

So where did Covid-19 came from? A bat or a lab? 

 

[thefxbip]

21 minutes ago, dcom said:

Religion is the second worst and still ongoing pandemic we've ever had. Humanity itself is the worst.

Now i don't want to spark a big conversation about this and i know where you are coming from, i really do, religion can be extremely dogmatic and fucked, but i just want to mention that i have witnessed first hand some people basically being saved from suicide and/or depression, addiction and abuse by spiritual practice. Me included. (forms of meditation)

Religion is what you make of it. Ive met some people that practice spirituality (first nation elders) that were very low profile about it and you don't really hear about it in the news or anywhere but were some of the most amazing and compassionate people you can meet.

What i'm really getting at is that it can be for some a quite powerful introspective and transforming tool to be a better person and have greater happiness and peace of mind for some people.

Of course it can be also be a force that feeds into prejudice, ignorance, dogma or violence but it is not always the case. It is what you make of it like pretty much anything.

I also think humans are capable of the worse as well as of the best. For every Hitler there is a Beethoven. There is danger in calling human beings worthless. You can start basically not give a fuck about other people well being because you think they are not worth much and become quite a bit misanthropic and nihilistic. I think it's very important, in the face of all that is evil in man, not to ever forget the good or else everything is despair and despair never helped anyone.

Again, i don't want to spark a big conversation about this, i'm not looking into changing your mind or convince you but just putting it out there that there is indeed some people that can take something positive from various religious or spiritual practices or teachings.

[dcom]

22 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Again, i don't want to spark a big conversation about this, i'm not looking into changing your mind or convince you but just putting it out there that there is indeed some people that can take something positive from various religious or spiritual practices or teachings.

I was being sarcastic (hence the "humanity is a virus" trope used in e.g. The Matrix). Although I'm a pure-bred atheist, I acknowledge the role and benefits of religiosity and spirituality as mental health support systems - but I also have an extreme dislike of religious people pushing their belief systems on others due to evangelism being a virtue. They think what they're doing is good, but to someone like me, it's an irritant. Nevertheless, I'm not against religion pear se, I just rather keep it away from my mental environment.

I also didn't intend to disparage religion by calling it a pandemic - I meant that as an idea virus it's infected most people on earth one way or the other in the context of memetic - whether you're a believer or not, most people have a conception of what religion is - some innately, some extraneously.

Edited July 13, 2021 by dcom

[cern]

Religion have helped many people also. I would say Money is a bigger virus than Religion..

[dcom]

9 minutes ago, cern said:

Religion have helped many people also. I would say Money is a bigger virus than Religion..

Religion is responsible for plenty of atrocities, internally and externally. The good parts are good, but the bad are really, REALLY bad at their worst. The Enlightenment wouldn't have come about without religion, or widespread reading and writing skills, to name a few. There's plenty of arguments both ways.

Edited July 13, 2021 by dcom

[ignatius]

18 minutes ago, cern said:

Religion have helped many people also. I would say Money is a bigger virus than Religion..

the church is RICH AS FUCK. so, does that make them a double virus? yeah.. probably.. don't get me start on religion and specifically the catholic church because i won't shut the fuck up for a while and i'll knock this thread into a tail spin. 

i'll let stephen fry make some comments as a starter. other topics worth investigation, the witch hunts, the war on women, dawn of capitalism, mass graves at full of indigenous people at former catholic run schools in canada, white supremacy, raping children, the new world etc etc.. 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by ignatius

[Rubin Farr]

17 minutes ago, cern said:

Religion have helped many people also. I would say Money is a bigger virus than Religion..

Money is definitely one of the worst creations of humanity, and organized religion has exploited that throughout history.

[thefxbip]

Yeah i think money wasnt our best idea hahaha

[dcom]

Just to digress and derail the thread a bit more, Tom Holland's Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World is a great book.

[thefxbip]

The Messiah storyline influence politics a lot still to this day i think. Loads of people are still looking for a single external savior individual to fix everything and politicians surf on that myth a lot. 

Same for books and movies. How many movies with a single superman Christ like savior that fixes everything for the rest of the people? Marvel, Matrix, Star Wars etc etc

Looks like an interesting book.

Edited July 13, 2021 by thefxbip

[zero]

we need a new category of torture porn, where a gestapo like military force rounds up the anti-vaxxers, physically forces them to get vaccinated. they could live stream the shit. we could all be watching the fox noosers writhe and scream in agony as the jab goes into the arm. would be like some modern day version of an exorcism. huzzah!