Coronavirus COVID-19

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, Nebraska said:

 

WTF? Is trump running a home shopping network on the side?

Lol apparently he displayed the thing upside down. But I still don't understand what the fuck he is doing advertising a product...

[chenGOD]

12 hours ago, zkom said:

A new article in the Lancet suggests that the mortality rate is "only" around 0.66% when taken into account all infected and not just the ones that have severe symptoms: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

That would be still much higher than influenza but nowhere near as bad as some estimates a few weeks ago.

Some other things I've learned: The corona viruses are genetically pretty stable unlike influenza viruses. We have new strains of influenza yearly because they mutate so fast and that's why last year's influenza shots don't protect against the latest strains. Also based on previous knowledge on corona viruses the immunity lasts about 2-3 years. So if we get the vaccination we might need booster shots every 2 years.

Also, as I said before, it's probable that the strains with milder symptoms become more commonplace and replace the deadlier strains over time due to evolutionary advantage. So, maybe we have a seasonal corona epidemic every couple of years in the future but it's not going to be this bad.

Anyway, this is NOT the worst case pandemic that the virologists have been fearing. This is more like a rehearsal for that..

Very interesting. That analysis of the mortality rate seems to be in line with this article from the New England Journal of Medicine:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

Note who one of the authors is of that article....

[Entorwellian]

 

 

[zero]

well if you're gonna bolt, make sure you don't head up into remote northern Canada with facial tattoos:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/couple-flees-north-arctic-circle-coronavirus-155878

Quote

In a scramble to escape the coronavirus, a couple drove more than 3,400 miles across Canada and then flew another 500 miles deep into the northern Yukon territory.

Upon their arrival in the remote community of Old Crow, the visitors were swiftly ushered into self-isolation and eventually sent packing.

“They had sold everything that they had, drove across the country and jumped on a flight to our community. He said that they literally just picked it out on a map and figured it would be the safest place in Canada to weather a Covid-19 storm.”

Tizya-Tramm described the couple as “hippy-ish” and likely under the age of 35. The man had two facial tattoos, Josie added.

They were clearly unprepared for life in the far north. “They came off the plane in sweatpants and a jacket and a hat — no gloves,” Tizya-Tramm said.

 

[Brisbot]

My dad said that someone at his work was totally ignoring coronavirus, and was essentially "bragging" a few days ago that he threw his kid a b-day party, and let some of his friends stay the night. (and yeah there were more than 10 people at the party).

Lo and behold, guess who at my dad's work was the first to have the virus as of yesterday? Yep. His kid has it too, but he or she is asymptomatic so far. Now they are testing people at dad's work because some guy thinks he's some kinda immune badass, and I'm sure they're testing everyone who went to the party. He would already have been infected by the time of the party by a week I'm assuming. And because of one guy being irresponsible, I could already have it.

And people keep throwing their kids parties and/or getting together on the weekend, like wtf. Just because we don't live in the city doesn't mean the virus hasn't made its way here.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Brisbot

[cruising for burgers]

Do you gals think it's too soon to tell that somebody has corona virus as an April fools joke? I told one of my work colleague that the captain has it and he believed me... lol? 

[goDel]

18 minutes ago, Tim_J said:

Do you gals think it's too soon to tell that somebody has corona virus as an April fools joke? I told one of my work colleague that the captain has it and he believed me... lol? 

Geez, I assumed you were going to say you had been tested positive. Not someone else. That's a dick move, buddy. 

[cruising for burgers]

24 minutes ago, goDel said:

Geez, I assumed you were going to say you had been tested positive. Not someone else. That's a dick move, buddy. 

Never thought he would belive me... He even said that somehow he already knew it, that he was a psychic... 

[goDel]

1 hour ago, Tim_J said:

Never thought he would belive me... He even said that somehow he already knew it, that he was a psychic... 

Here's your new inappropriate Aprils Fools joke: go tell the Captain that that other guy thinks he's psychic and think the captain has covid. Best to do it while having a coffee with them at the same time. And see how the story unfolds. (keep distance though!)

[ignatius]

3 minutes ago, goDel said:

Here's your new inappropriate Aprils Fools joke: go tell the Captain that that other guy thinks he's psychic and think the captain has covid. Best to do it while having a coffee with them at the same time. And see how the story unfolds. (keep distance though!)

and if it gets weird just whip your dick out. 

[goDel]

why would you want to do that? or rather, why would you want timmy to do that?

also, social distancing means you are not allowed to just whipe your dick out in public!

[iococoi]

[Enthusiast]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/mar/31/solidarity-members-eurozone-coronavirus-dutch-coronabond

When Holland is under water, I hope it gets all the help it deserves.

[zkom]

1 hour ago, Enthusiast said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/mar/31/solidarity-members-eurozone-coronavirus-dutch-coronabond

When Holland is under water, I hope it gets all the help it deserves.

EU is really dropping the fucking ball in regards to this whole pandemic. If EU states can't cooperate in front of this kind of global threat then the questions start to rise that what good is the whole union?

[goDel]

2 hours ago, Enthusiast said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/mar/31/solidarity-members-eurozone-coronavirus-dutch-coronabond

When Holland is under water, I hope it gets all the help it deserves.

Bit of miscommunication going on there. Some bad communication at EU level from the Netherlands caused a stir. The thing about those bonds is only part of it. Thing which complicates this (besides differences in culture and language) is the history. Southern countries have been asking for these solutions since well before the current crisis. So there is some resistance, because northern countries think this crisis is being used to solve some other problems. There's definitely a shared sense of urgency. But that might have been lost in translation. Or rather, the Netherlands failed to communicate this properly.

Anyways, it's all a bit sensitive in a complicated/urgent context. And bad communication from the Netherlands doesn't really help.

[Limo]

The Dutch are spectacularly rude. Always. And their government is no exception.

Italy and Spain asked for help. Which is reasonable. In the form of a blank cheque. Which is not. Civilized people would respond to such a request by proceeding to discuss, politely, what other forms of help would also acceptable. Not so the Dutch.

The fault lies with both parties, here. The Dutch, for being by nature a rude and uncivilized people, and the Italians and the Spanish for making demands they, after having worked with the Dutch for so long, should have known would elicit a stupid response.

Edited April 1, 2020 by rhmilo

[Enthusiast]

Between this, the Germans refusing to export ppe and ventilators until the EU. Commission threatened legal action for violating the single market, and there being no mechanism to expel Hungary as it transforms itself into Turkmenistan... it’s hard to make a case for the EU right now. And we will have to make that case in the coming years. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Enthusiast

[goDel]

Although I certainly agree that the Dutch, generally speaking can be rude (and naive about it) and very much to the point, at the diplomatic level there's plenty ability to have civilised communication on an international level.

Might go further and call it one of the strengths even. You shouldn't underestimate the level of diplomatic expertise in the Netherlands. (goes beyond the ability to speak/understand multiple languages, btw. but there's def a relationship) Which makes it all the more interesting what has happened.

Appears to me that because of the current crisis the internal process surrounding the preparation of these EU meetings wasn't optimal, so to speak. Also note that diplomacy takes time. 

In other words, to me this looks more like a consequence of poor preparation than some general thing about the Dutch. "The Dutch" don't sit at these meetings. These are usually well prepared people with a good amount of expertise and experience. 

[goDel]

7 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

Between this, the Germans refusing to export ppe and ventilators until the EU. Commission threatened legal action for violating the single market, and there being no mechanism to expel Hungary as it transform itself into Turkmenistan... it’s hard to make a case for the EU right now

I think the unfortunate thing is that some countries appear to try to leverage this crisis for making (structural instead of temporary) changes in their own benefit. Arguably, the same holds for different states in the US. This is not a for/against wrt the EU. This is intrinsic to large scale cooperations like this. Even without an EU you'd have these discussions. The case for the EU is that there are procedures and a process to come to agreements between all members. Without the EU, you'd have to start from scratch.

Hungary is a different story, I feel. One which I also don't consider as a negative case for the EU, tbh. This is stuff that needs to be learned how to deal with. It's a first, as far as I can tell. All firsts are sucky. Call it the human condition.

Edited April 1, 2020 by goDel

[Enthusiast]

The Dutch have maintained this line since the financial crisis. The problem is it’s grossly insulting to accuse Spain and Italy of fiscal irresponsibility in the midst of this pandemic when they are suffering the most at this moment. The Dutch, a tax haven, are claiming moral hazard should apply. The optics are horrendous. 
 

i realise most Dutch people don’t agree with this and there has been an outcry against this policy by top Dutch economists. But the clock is ticking.

[goDel]

3 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

The optics are horrendous. 

Absolutely. Haven been following the news with loads of 

Horrendous and painful to watch. Shouldn't have happened. Couldn't. The responsible ministers have something to explain. Not only to those countries, but internally as well. It's a sign of incompetence really. And hurts the Dutch position in the long run. Apart from the crisis that needs to be addressed right now. I mean, last week...

[Limo]

24 minutes ago, goDel said:

Although I certainly agree that the Dutch, generally speaking can be rude (and naive about it) and very much to the point, at the diplomatic level there's plenty ability to have civilised communication on an international level.

Might go further and call it one of the strengths even. You shouldn't underestimate the level of diplomatic expertise in the Netherlands. (goes beyond the ability to speak/understand multiple languages, btw. but there's def a relationship) Which makes it all the more interesting what has happened.

Appears to me that because of the current crisis the internal process surrounding the preparation of these EU meetings wasn't optimal, so to speak. Also note that diplomacy takes time. 

In other words, to me this looks more like a consequence of poor preparation than some general thing about the Dutch. "The Dutch" don't sit at these meetings. These are usually well prepared people with a good amount of expertise and experience. 

I think you underestimate how this rudeness (which the Dutch themselves simply think of as "being direct") is an eyesore to the rest of the world. It is not a diplomatic "strength" to accuse governments of squandering their money on women and booze, it's, well, rude and unhelpful.

You're right that the preparation of the meeting probably wasn't optimal, but this isn't the first time a Dutch politician antagonizes pretty much the whole world simply by being a jerk.

Maybe take a look at how the rest of the world perceives actions such as this. Or maybe ask how people from the rest of the world view Dutch people in general. This is not a political tactic, it's a true national character trait and it's a really, really bad one.

23 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

 

i realise most Dutch people don’t agree with this and there has been an outcry against this policy by top Dutch economists. But the clock is ticking.

You'd be surprised. 

[Enthusiast]

I don’t think the root of the issue is Dutch rudeness. The Finns, Germans and Austrians are all aligned with NL in not wanting their bonds “contaminated” by less well off countries. However only the Dutch have taken the position that this is a play by France, Spain and Italy to get the Eurobonds they have always wanted.

[Soloman Tump]

Can't help but think / worry that this will be the end of the EU project.

 

[goDel]

18 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

I think you underestimate how this rudeness (which the Dutch themselves simply think of as "being direct") is an eyesore to the rest of the world. It is not a diplomatic "strength" to accuse governments of squandering their money on women and booze, it's, well, rude and unhelpful.

You're right that the preparation of the meeting probably wasn't optimal, but this isn't the first time a Dutch politician antagonizes pretty much the whole world simply by being a jerk.

Maybe take a look at how the rest of the world perceives actions such as this. Or maybe ask how people from the rest of the world view Dutch people in general. This is not a political tactic, it's a true national character trait and it's a really, really bad one.

Lets just say I made a remark about Dutch diplomacy in general. And not about those specific incidents. I'm fairly aware how foreigners experience the Dutch. And how "the rest of the world" perceive actions such as these.

Again, there's a difference between the actions and the general way the Dutch do diplomacy. Remember those leaked cables from the Bush administration? Supposedly US diplomats considered the Netherlands able to punch above their weight and an important entrance to influence EU opinions and policies.

Might be difficult to hold two opposing ideas at the same time, I guess ;D, but YES the Dutch are very much able to behave like incompetent idiots on the international stage. And also YES, they know pretty well how to do diplomacy.

This is not uniquely Dutch either, btw. I mean Brexit speaks volumes, right? There you see the same. The Brits can be both absolute masters at diplomacy and idiots. (This is not an excuse for the actions we're currently discussing, btw. No excuses for those. Just awful.)

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by goDel