Coronavirus COVID-19

[Hail Sagan]

 

[caze]

6 hours ago, Roo said:

Well then you can take all the Covid-19 infested cruise ships lurking around Australia's epic coastline at the moment if you like. "Middle of nowhere" and "small" are moronic descriptors, and it is not like this virus has been walked across the globe.

What do cruise ships have to do with anything I've said? And how are they moronic descriptors? NZ is about 4k km from Australia, 'middle of nowhere' is a perfectly valid descriptor. It's a lot easier to travel between Ireland and the UK than it is to travel between NZ and Australia, or NZ/Australia and most anywhere else. It's a lot easier to lock down an island nation than it is a landlocked one. Ireland sees a much much higher number of visitors per year than NZ does. This isn't a complicated concept, not sure how you're failing to grasp this.

Quote

In terms of area, Australia is the 6th largest country, Japan is 62nd and New Zealand is 75th (both bigger than the UK), Ireland is 118th (barely a quarter the size of NZ). Australia, Japan and Indonesia are all G20 as well. I think you are projecting.

I wasn't talking about the size of the landmass, the island of Ireland has pretty much the same population as New Zealand.

[zero]

2 hours ago, Hail Sagan said:

 

 

fucking bats. nothing but disease carrying winged rats. corona is all their fault. donnie needs to tell the MAGA army to shoot all of 'em.

[IDEM]

6 hours ago, prdctvsm said:

Dude's got his thruster pointed sideways; that way he won't get anywhere fast. 

[Rubin Farr]

7 hours ago, Enthusiast said:

Antarctica has done a terrific job of containing this pandemic it must be said. Also The Moon has done well.

think about the poor bastards on the space station.

[d-a-m-o]

4 more weeks of lockdown in france... (of course there's no mask and no test lol)

[dingformung]

I think it's smart not to allow the corona bonds. It would strengthen the right wing parties in Western Europe, who are finally about to disassemble themselves, also as a result of their poor judgement, ludicrous statements and their incompetence in the Corona issue. The creditworthiness of countries that are already indebted would improve if all EU countries were jointly liable, and therefore theoretically lead to more favourable terms for bonds for indebted countries. At the same time, the reliance on corona bonds could also be seen as an indicator of poor creditworthiness, and thus have a paradoxical effect, which is not necessarily likely but definitely something to consider. Ultimately, richer countries would probably have to bear the overall burden in the end, without being able to have the slightest say in the financial policies of the beneficiary countries, and that for a long, long time, for years and years to come. That would destroy the political landscape of the not profiting countries and resurrect right-wing parties. Instead, the countries concerned should be helped through other, more targeted channels (which incidentally also happens but is not mentioned in the media too much). I am not a friend of Merkel, but she has the right attitude on this question.

The sad thing is that old stereotypes and nationalisms are reviving, especially in Italy (which has a problem with nationalism anyway). For example, Tullio Solenghi, a well-known Italian comedian, says: “The Germans provoked the First World War, the Germans provoked the Second World War. The Germans exterminated 6 million Jews in the gas chambers and the Germans who still have this ruthless arrogance today in economic terms but always to consider themselves a superior race, still feel superior today ". And someone tell me again that the Dutch are undiplomatic, lol (even though I’m aware that it’s a difference if a Comedian or an official says stuff like this).
On the other hand, Italians are accused of not being able to handle money and being corrupt. A not very far-fetched accusation if we are being honest. Much of the money would surely go to Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra and Sacra Corona Unita and so on. It’s not all that far-fetched and scandalous to come to the conclusion that help should be given through different, more controlled and safe channels that don’t endanger the overall political climate of whole Europe.

Edited April 13, 2020 by darreichungsform
grammar

[marf]

People are really prone to believe in conspiracy theories. Wtf, is with people?

[Zephyr_Nova]

That's just what they want you to think.

[Limo]

54 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

I think it's smart not to allow the corona bonds. It would strengthen the right wing parties in Western Europe, who are finally about to disassemble themselves, also as a result of their poor judgement, ludicrous statements and their incompetence in the Corona issue. The creditworthiness of countries that are already indebted would improve if all EU countries were jointly liable, and therefore theoretically lead to more favourable terms for bonds for indebted countries. At the same time, the reliance on corona bonds could also be seen as an indicator of poor creditworthiness, and thus have a paradoxical effect, which is not necessarily likely but definitely something to consider. Ultimately, richer countries would probably have to bear the overall burden in the end, without being able to have the slightest say in the financial policies of the beneficiary countries, and that for a long, long time, for years and years to come. That would destroy the political landscape of the nonprofit countries and resurrect right-wing parties. Instead, the countries concerned should be helped through other, more targeted channels (which incidentally also happens but is not mentioned in the media too much). I am not a friend of Merkel, but she has the right attitude on this question.

The sad thing is that old stereotypes and nationalisms are reviving, especially in Italy (which has a problem with nationalism anyway). For example, Tullio Solenghi, a well-known Italian comedian, says: “The Germans provoked the First World War, the Germans provoked the Second World War. The Germans exterminated 6 million Jews in the gas chambers and the Germans who still have this ruthless arrogance today in economic terms but always to consider themselves a superior race, still feel superior today ". And someone tell me again that the Dutch are undiplomatic, lol (even though I’m aware that it’s a difference if a Comedian or an official says stuff like this).
On the other hand, Italians are accused of not being able to handle money and being corrupt. A not very far-reaching accusation if we are being honest. Much of the money would surely go to Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra and Sacra Corona Unita and so on. It’s not all that far-fetched and scandalous to come to the conclusion that help should be given through different, more controlled and safe channels that don’t endanger the overall political climate of whole Europe.

Spoken like a true Northerner

I agree for the most part, btw.

There's another aspect to this, however: Italy is not a small country. Its economy dwarfs that of a number of the countries that don't want Euro bonds *put together*. If there were to be Euro bonds, a slight blip in Italy would become a very big problem for, say, Austria or Finland. It makes no sense for anyone to willingly make their economy subservient to the sixth largest economy in the world.

 

[fumi]

BBC.

Quote

From the very beginning people speculated online about the origin of the coronavirus. This was exacerbated by a slew of videos said to be showing Chinese people eating bats amid the deadly outbreak in Wuhan.
One such clip shows a smiling Chinese woman holding a cooked bat on camera, before admitting it tastes "like chicken meat". The video prompted outrage online, with some users blaming Chinese eating habits for the outbreak.
But the video was not shot in Wuhan, or in China for that matter. Originally filmed in 2016, it shows popular blogger and travel show host Mengyun Wang during a trip to Palau, an archipelago in the western Pacific Ocean.
The clip resurfaced on social media after cases of the new coronavirus emerged in Wuhan late last year.
Following online backlash, Ms Wang apologised, saying she was "just trying to introduce the life of local people" to the audience and had not known that bats could be a virus carrier. Her video has since been taken down.
The new coronavirus is believed to have emerged from illegally traded wildlife at a seafood market in Wuhan. Although bats have been named in recent research from China as a possible source of the virus, bat soup is not particularly commonplace in the country and the investigations into its exact origins continue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-51271037https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-51271037

[hijexx]

2 hours ago, marf said:

People are really prone to believe in conspiracy theories. Wtf, is with people?

Intellectual laziness

[fumi]

Anyone watching the current press briefing from the US?

Trump has put up video monitors playing back media clips criticising his handling of the crisis.

Can you imagine this happening with the British Government or most of the European ones.

America is almost surreal to me.

Train wreck. It's all about the election.

Edited April 13, 2020 by fumi

[ignatius]

21 minutes ago, hijexx said:

Intellectual laziness

in america it's also because fewer and fewer people trust official sources or government sources. richard nixon was the death of that for a lot of people. there's always been people who didn't buy the official story of this or that and didn't have faith in the government but since then and kennedy being assassinated it's more mainstream to doubt. coupled with massive media manipulation and modern techniques for persuasion and that becoming a science for advertising and changing/manipulating behavior what we have is well.  what we have. add the internet and conspiracy gossip channels and the truth loses its potency. 

also intellectual laziness. people find the delusion of the conspiracy to be more entertaining and people want to be entertained. not to mention they want to feel special like they have the secret knowledge or understanding. 

[ambermonk]

Just now, fumi said:

Anyone watching the current press briefing from the US?

Trump has put up video monitors playing back media clips criticising his handling of the crisis.

Can you imagine this happening with the British Government or most of the European ones.

America is almost surreal to me.

Train wreck. It's all about the election.

This is the first time we've had an entire presidency centered around a single ego, at least in my lifetime. We can only hope it'll be the last.

Edited April 13, 2020 by timbre monke

[fumi]

9 minutes ago, ignatius said:

in america it's also because fewer and fewer people trust official sources or government sources. richard nixon was the death of that for a lot of people. there's always been people who didn't buy the official story of this or that and didn't have faith in the government but since then and kennedy being assassinated it's more mainstream to doubt. coupled with massive media manipulation and modern techniques for persuasion and that becoming a science for advertising and changing/manipulating behavior what we have is well.  what we have. add the internet and conspiracy gossip channels and the truth loses its potency. 

also intellectual laziness. people find the delusion of the conspiracy to be more entertaining and people want to be entertained. not to mention they want to feel special like they have the secret knowledge or understanding. 

Some good points there. Also, there is the idea of fake conspiracies actually made up by the government. Back in the 80s during the Reagan Administration, this was called 'Perception Management' - a blurring of fact and fiction. The aim was to tell dramatic stories that grabbed the public's imagination - The Middle East, Russia and even Central America.

It didn't matter whether the stories were true or not, provided they distracted the public and politicians from having to deal with the intractable complexities of the real world.

[hijexx]

17 minutes ago, fumi said:

Anyone watching the current press briefing from the US?

I was watching them to try to keep up but after it became apparent he was just treating it like his daily show I stopped watching. The joke about models is what did it for me. He doesn't care about people.

[Enthusiast]

2 hours ago, rhmilo said:

Spoken like a true Northerner

I agree for the most part, btw.

There's another aspect to this, however: Italy is not a small country. Its economy dwarfs that of a number of the countries that don't want Euro bonds *put together*. If there were to be Euro bonds, a slight blip in Italy would become a very big problem for, say, Austria or Finland. It makes no sense for anyone to willingly make their economy subservient to the sixth largest economy in the world.

 

Why would it be a very big problem for Austria or Finland? The whole point of eurobonds is that if one country experiences an economic problem, they can still borrow at a reasonable rate based on how attractive the eurozone is as a whole. Eurobonds would negate the need for a member state having to resort to financial aid from the ECB or IMF at onerous terms because they can't borrow on the international bond market. Eurobonds would strengthen the Euro currency immeasurably. Instead we move from crisis to crisis, with terrified national governments kicking the can down the road and choosing individual short-term self interest over solidarity and long term stability. The insanity of throwing your partners under the bus when you share an economically interdependent single market has never been more apparent.

 

 

 

[Enthusiast]

3 hours ago, darreichungsform said:

On the other hand, Italians are accused of not being able to handle money and being corrupt. A not very far-fetched accusation if we are being honest. Much of the money would surely go to Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra and Sacra Corona Unita and so on. It’s not all that far-fetched and scandalous to come to the conclusion that help should be given through different, more controlled and safe channels that don’t endanger the overall political climate of whole Europe.

The Italians have run a budget surplus for the last decade. The Netherlands have run a deficit a number of times in that time, and the Germans were slipping into recession long before coronavirus arrived. As for national stereotypes, you don't want to go there.

[kakapo]

The Italian Synth Mafia would just use the money to buy more synths.  Is that what you really want?  Alessandro Cortini, Caterina Barbieri, Guido Zen et al buying more and more buchla and serge on the credit card of Dutch taxpayers?

[dingformung]

38 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

The insanity of throwing your partners under the bus when you share an economically interdependent single market has never been more apparent.

Who proposed throwing anyone under the bus? Of course there has to be mutual help and solidarity. I'm just not sure if corona bonds are the way to do that. I already explained that it can a) potentially lead to a paradox effect and b) help right wing parties. And we are at a critical point regarding the global right shift right now. 

[Enthusiast]

23 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

Who proposed throwing anyone under the bus? Of course there has to be mutual help and solidarity. I'm just not sure if corona bonds are the way to do that. I already explained that it can a) potentially lead to a paradox effect and b) help right wing parties. And we are at a critical point regarding the global right shift right now. 

Proposed? It already happened.

https://www.ft.com/content/d3bc25ea-652c-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

Quote

When Italy asked for urgent medical supplies under a special European crisis mechanism no EU country responded. Fearful of its own shortages, Germany initially banned the export of medical masks and other protective gear. 3M, a producer, said the German restrictions had made it impossible to supply the Italian market. Berlin subsequently relaxed the export rules, but then Austria closed its borders to people arriving from Italy unless they could prove they were virus-free.

Quote

Christine Lagarde’s comment that it was not the ECB’s job to “close the spreads” between 10-year Italian government bonds and German Bunds — a measure of the risk differential between the two sovereign debts — caused it to spike by 60 basis points, the biggest daily increase on record. The FTSE MIB, Milan’s blue-chip stock index, plummeted 17 per cent, its biggest daily drop, out-slumping other equity markets on a terrible day for investors around the world.

“Italy needed help and it has been given a slap in the face,” said Matteo Salvini, leader of the nationalist League party who said he would look into seeking compensation from the central bank.

He added: “The only help that has come from Europe has been to cause the collapse of the stock market and to make the spread go crazy. Yesterday Italy lost €68bn of savings.”
 

 

[caze]

1 hour ago, fumi said:

Trump has put up video monitors playing back media clips criticising his handling of the crisis.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's deliberately tanking his election bid at this point, he didn't even want to be president in the first place, didn't expect to win, and now he wants out. Maybe this gives him too much credit though, as at this point I'm not entirely convinced he's capable of anything resembling a coherent thought.

[dingformung]

30 minutes ago, Enthusiast said:

Proposed? It already happened.

https://www.ft.com/content/d3bc25ea-652c-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

 

There is a paywall to that article but what you have quoted is inaccurate. Germany is right now sending respirators, medical supplies and doctors to Italy despite it having given lots of medical supplies to China when the whole thing started and because of that is having a shortage, too, right now. Also, patients from Italy are transferred to Germany for treatment.

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Deutschland-nimmt-Patienten-aus-Italien-auf-article21664769.html

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/corona-hilfen-italien-101.html

fuck Salvini

Edited April 14, 2020 by darreichungsform

[Enthusiast]

17 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

There is a paywall to that article but what you have quoted is inaccurate. Germany is right now sending respirators, medical supplies and doctors to Italy despite it having given lots of medical supplies to China when the whole thing started and because of that is having a shortage, too, right now. Also, patients from Italy are transferred to Germany for treatment.

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Deutschland-nimmt-Patienten-aus-Italien-auf-article21664769.html

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/corona-hilfen-italien-101.html

fuck Salvini

It’s inaccurate because Germany changed its behavior later? What?