Coronavirus COVID-19

[J3FF3R00]

3 minutes ago, luke viia said:

 I'm on good terms with the sheriff; do I call him if I see 50+ people here? If someone has a birthday party here? Twenty family neighborhood potluck? What do? ugh

If I were you, I'd call the sheriff if I saw 4 or more people hanging out without masks. 2 people without masks is 2 too many, so 4 is a public threat, IMO.

Fuck what anyone else thinks. The fact is that you actually give a shit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[hijexx]

So I guess 1000+ deaths per day in the US is the go forward strategy now, that seems to be the baseline

[drome]

1 hour ago, milkface said:

Does anyone have a subscription to the Financial Times? Looking to circumvent the paywall, screenshots are fine thx - Just wondering as I heard that FT had done research which suggested that by 22nd April there were as many as 40,000 deaths in the UK and around 50,000 by the 4th May as a large majority of home + care home (general outside of hospital zones) had not been included in the official stats.

That'll be rather interesting. Left wing ideas are complex and very hard to wrap your head around whereas far right ideas are just slogans and the rage of the emotionally weak.

Authoritarian left wingers are as bad as right wingers. Same use of slogans, the lot

[zero]

1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

We should let the far-right people have a little section of America where they can congregate to their heart’s content, but they can’t leave. Let’s call it...Al-obama. 

I say give king donald and the maga army the entire central part of the country...from north dakota down to oklahoma...no one cares much about that section anyway. and build a wall to keep those drug dealing Canadian rapists out... 

[dingformung]

16 minutes ago, drome said:

2 hours ago, milkface said:

That'll be rather interesting. Left wing ideas are complex and very hard to wrap your head around whereas far right ideas are just slogans and the rage of the emotionally weak.

Authoritarian left wingers are as bad as right wingers. Same use of slogans, the lot

Actually you are the one using stale slogans here. The horseshoe theory (or rather horseshoe model, since theory is too big of a word for a simplistic graphical representation of a complex matter) has always been used by the moderate right to discredit the left (and positioning itself in the "center"). Left and right aren't the same, not even the more authoritarian part of the left (though I'd argue that authoritarianism makes you less left). And left populism unfortunately is necessary to reach some people and make them not vote agains their own interest. Some people can only be reached by simplified messages

[TubularCorporation]

29 minutes ago, drome said:

Authoritarian left wingers are as bad as right wingers. Same use of slogans, the lot

 

 I mean, tankies are trash but there's still a pretty big gap there.

Edited May 5, 2020 by TubularCorporation

[apriorion]

Man, people are so predictable. I told all my friends about two months ago that this is exactly how things would play out. Level-headed medical professionals would urge us to "flatten the curve", people will collectively give it a shot, conspiracy theories about the man-madeness of the thing would rise (to the point where cabinet officials would promote that stupidity on national television--Pompeo, e.g.), people would get restless and many of them would direct their anxieties on governments/medical professionals/intellectuals, large groups would go out in protests and public gatherings in parks and beaches, they would start demanding reopening. This will continue to get stupider. People have no patience, and cause-and-effect reasoning is difficult when you don't immediately see the cause of the effect. Not being able to see the virus, its airborne qualities, the slight delay of the incubation period: all of these things make it hard for people to be patient. Also, we're talking about something--while 10x or so more dangerous than the flu--is still relatively low on the deadliness scale for the average fuck to care about. These factors taken together make the whole scenario rather predictable. If the death rates were higher, or if the infection were instantaneous and uniform in its symptoms, I would expect more patience for the lockdowns (although I would expect the conspiracy nuts would ramp up their efforts). But with this, it's just nebulous enough to confound the simple-minded public. Putting things in perspective, these people don't represent the majority, sure. But they represent a sizable enough minority (in the U.S. at least) to elect the most ridiculous living embodiment of that '80s businessman from Futurama as president. 

My point is, if I wanted an easy win in a game of Go, I'd just play against the collective stupidity of these people. 

[drome]

50 minutes ago, dingformung said:

Actually you are the one using stale slogans here. The horseshoe theory (or rather horseshoe model, since theory is too big of a word for a simplistic graphical representation of a complex matter) has always been used by the moderate right to discredit the left (and positioning itself in the "center"). Left and right aren't the same, not even the more authoritarian part of the left (though I'd argue that authoritarianism makes you less left). And left populism unfortunately is necessary to reach some people and make them not vote agains their own interest. Some people can only be reached by simplified messages

Authoritarianism of any kind is bad. Care to disagree?

[Nebraska]

Quote

The Trump White House is planning to wind down its coronavirus task force in the coming weeks and instead ask agencies to take control of the response efforts.

“We’re having a conversation about that and about what the proper time is for the task force to complete its work,” Vice President Mike Pence said at a briefing for reporters on Tuesday. At that point, he added, the work would be moved to agencies like the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

“We’ve already begun to talk about a transition plan with FEMA,” Pence said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/05/white-house-break-up-of-coronavirus-task-force-237769

nice way to get that fauci to stop spewing all his "science" nonsense and "facts" b.s.

[ignatius]

^^^^ jesus fuck these fucking people are idiots. 

also

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-updates-15-children-hospitalized-nyc-mysterious-syndrome/story?id=70506264

Coronavirus updates: 15 children hospitalized in NYC with mysterious syndrome possibly linked to COVID-19

[Nebraska]

^^ could it be covid-19 2: electric boogaloo

[ignatius]

i hear the voice.. 

ju

just in case some of the young ones aren't familiar w/scenes from cult classics. 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by ignatius

[dingformung]

2 hours ago, drome said:

Authoritarianism of any kind is bad. Care to disagree?

Nah, you obviously need some authoritarianism from me. You will scream and struggle but in the end you will cum, like it or not

[chenGOD]

4 hours ago, zero said:

I say give king donald and the maga army the entire central part of the country...from north dakota down to oklahoma...no one cares much about that section anyway. and build a wall to keep those drug dealing Canadian rapists out... 

Fully agreed, especially on the wall. 

[sweepstakes]

4 hours ago, drome said:

Authoritarianism of any kind is bad. Care to disagree?

I thought authoritarian was a relative term.

favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Nobody is 100% this unless they're literally a robot, and that definition generally doesn't align with my general personal beliefs. However, I'm for environmental regulation, and enforcement of those regulations requires an authority. Also, I would be in favor of a proportional flat tax on individuals and corporations to fund comprehensive universal health care, assuming it was an ideal, well-managed, efficient, effective implementation not corrupted by cronyism (not being sarcastic, just saying for the sake of the argument). And collection of those taxes requires some kind of authority.

TL;DR I don't think it's that simple.

[sweepstakes]

7 hours ago, dingformung said:

That's what left populism is for. Simplify the message and put it into a Christian context. Jesus loves health insurance lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_left#Alliance_of_the_left_and_Christianity

I've known a handful of very religious but very thoughtful folks with great big hearts (like my great aunt) that all leaned heavily left except on a handful of issues (abortion, duh). But they are very much the quiet voice in a world of megachurches and braindead cunts screaming "don't tread on me" about their gray roots.

[ignatius]

27 minutes ago, sweepstakes said:

I thought authoritarian was a relative term.

i thought it was the term used for people who eat authors. 

[auxien]

[Lane Visitor]

My mom and her bf, both Trump supporters think it's real but way overblown and "lol" about flattening the curve and all that denier nonsense. Dad's the same way, emailing me articles and videos on the "corona hoax", etc.

Several of my closest friends one of who is actually a nurse thinks the same thing and is complaining why can't we just open up everything already etc.

Most of the employees at my wife's place of work are in the same mindset, and have stopped wearing masks (though she continues to wear it while outside her individual office). 

I've lost faith in humanity at this point. The family and friends of mine who happen to buy into the absurdity of this narrative are quite intelligent people. The fact that they can be pulled into this garbage infuriates me. I'm truly concerned for our country, our society, our globe. Fuck the virus or the economy... our problem is us humans, the Trump cult, toxic divisiveness, political chaos, social media propaganda, manipulated news... All of that is finally rearing it's ugliest head yet, converging, showing us the worst bits all at once... And it's poisoning us and paralyzing us faster than Covid, faster than climate change, faster than food shortage.

Idiocy will be the death of us.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Lane Visitor
Edit

[goDel]

8 hours ago, apriorion said:

Man, people are so predictable. I told all my friends about two months ago that this is exactly how things would play out. Level-headed medical professionals would urge us to "flatten the curve", people will collectively give it a shot, conspiracy theories about the man-madeness of the thing would rise (to the point where cabinet officials would promote that stupidity on national television--Pompeo, e.g.), people would get restless and many of them would direct their anxieties on governments/medical professionals/intellectuals, large groups would go out in protests and public gatherings in parks and beaches, they would start demanding reopening. This will continue to get stupider. People have no patience, and cause-and-effect reasoning is difficult when you don't immediately see the cause of the effect. Not being able to see the virus, its airborne qualities, the slight delay of the incubation period: all of these things make it hard for people to be patient. Also, we're talking about something--while 10x or so more dangerous than the flu--is still relatively low on the deadliness scale for the average fuck to care about. These factors taken together make the whole scenario rather predictable. If the death rates were higher, or if the infection were instantaneous and uniform in its symptoms, I would expect more patience for the lockdowns (although I would expect the conspiracy nuts would ramp up their efforts). But with this, it's just nebulous enough to confound the simple-minded public. Putting things in perspective, these people don't represent the majority, sure. But they represent a sizable enough minority (in the U.S. at least) to elect the most ridiculous living embodiment of that '80s businessman from Futurama as president. 

My point is, if I wanted an easy win in a game of Go, I'd just play against the collective stupidity of these people. 

Well, yeah. If the bell curve is real, and it is, half of the population is more stupid than the average of stupidity. (Thats me saying that the average is an affront in itself, btw)

The thing which is new however, is that the people responsible for running the country are basically being lead by these people because they depend on their votes. (And there's a tiny group of rich rightwing fucks who make money by moving the country towards stupidity) I don't think that the people responsible for running things have been following stupid to this extent in the past. Normally, the political process aggregates all kinds of interests using some magical wisdom of the crowd formula. And you'd end up with some ethically and morally sound compromise. Regardless of political color, or ideology.

The moment when competence is thrown out the window and stupid takes over however...

[goDel]

59 minutes ago, Lane Visitor said:

Several of my closest friends one of who is actually a nurse thinks the same thing and is complaining why can't we just open up everything already etc.

Sounds like you live in a region where the impact is still tiny. Would explain a lot, imo. I mean, if even a nurse thinks nothing of it, I'm fairly sure the healthcare system in your region hasn't been overrun with covid19 patients. If it would have been, I'd expect a different story.

For what it's worth, from a world wide perspective the responses have usually been reactive instead of proactive. Proactive action have been rare. Look at Europe, for instance. There are exceptions, of course, but most of what you see there is reactive responses to the pandemic. 

If my intuition is correct, the pandemic hasn't really reached your state yet. And perhaps it wont either. Who knows. But when it does, opinions will change in an instant. A healthcare system which is like a warzone will affect everyone. Even the people without c19. Anyone who needs some kind of healthcare will notice. And the severity of the situation will be immediate. 

If you're the proactive kind of person, you'll always be in a minority. Hate to say it, but thats just the way it is. Similar in the EU. Or anywhere else. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by goDel

[prdctvsm]

50 yrs of dumbing-down = the end of democracy. because democracy is based upon majority rule, &so but when that majority has become an uneducated, greedy, entitled, myopic bunch o' boofheads w. guns & hairdos raised on shitty diets & disney movies, then r.i.p. democracy  ))::

umair haque puts it better in his, "age of ignorance" article.

[dcom]

5 minutes ago, prdctvsm said:

umair haque puts it better in his, "age of ignorance" article.

See also Anti-intellectualism in American Life (1963), and then there's this from Isaac Asimov (1980):

Quote

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

 

[goDel]

4 minutes ago, prdctvsm said:

50 yrs of dumbing-down = the end of democracy. because democracy is based upon majority rule, &so but when that majority has become an uneducated, greedy, entitled, myopic bunch o' boofheads w. guns & hairdos raised on shitty diets & disney movies, then r.i.p. democracy  ))::

umair haque puts it better in his, "age of ignorance" article.

Nah. We're in a transition. There's so much information around nowadays, we still have to learn how to deal with it. As we're wired to focus on the alarming stuff, it looks like there's alarming stuff everywhere. And with more information, there's more potential for alarming stuff. That's our own biases and intuitions making fools of ourselves.

This presentation explains it a bit. Also notice 9 mins in that those in the media are equally ignorant. And the fake news isn't real fake. It's incompetent. This is not society moving backwards. This is society still needing to adapt to the new world we live in. We're actually moving forward by noticing how shit it is...

 

[dcom]

39 minutes ago, goDel said:

Nah. We're in a transition. There's so much information around nowadays, we still have to learn how to deal with it. As we're wired to focus on the alarming stuff, it looks like there's alarming stuff everywhere. And with more information, there's more potential for alarming stuff. That's our own biases and intuitions making fools of ourselves.

To quote Clay Shirky, it's not information overload, it's filter failure (but see also filter bubble). The main problem is the commercialized infosphere where dissemination of factual information has become subservient to advertising - people are getting their "news" through algorithm-controlled environments like Facebook, YouTube etc. and if you're not media literate and can't differentiate between sources whether they're factual, trustworthy, unbiased etc. or not or can't evaluate purposeful misinformation, superstitions and conspiracy theories from reality, you're not going stop making a fool of yourself. I find that it actually is society moving backwards because actual, proper, real experts, scientists, leaders of their subjective fields are being demoted to the level of vox populi, pitting a random someone's opinion against expert knowledge and stating that these are on equal footing. There's a lot of dunning-krugering goin' round.

Edited May 6, 2020 by dcom