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8 hours ago, rhmilo said:

I think we've found ourselves another COVID conspiracy nut. Posting nonsense off Facebook? Really?

Piss off.

 

@rhmilo I do not understand your hostility here. Just because we cannot see each other does not make it okay to call someone a nut. That man really did die after getting vaccinated and he was otherwise healthy. The story just broke last night and that daily mail article and his wifes facebook post were the only sources I could find last night. USA today picked up the story today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/01/06/death-florida-doctor-following-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-under-investigation-gregory-michael/6574414002/

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A Florida doctor has died several weeks after receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, although it's not yet clear whether his death Monday was related to the shot he received on Dec. 18.

Dr. Gregory Michael, 56, an OB-GYN at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach, died after suffering a hemorrhagic stroke apparently resulting from a lack of platelets.

Miami medical examiners are investigating his death,the Florida Department of Health said in a statement.

"The CDC and FDA are responsible for reviewing COVID-19 vaccine safety data and presenting that information for federal recommendations on vaccine administration," communications director Jason Mahon said in an email. "The state will continue to provide all available information to the CDC as they lead this investigation."

In a Facebook post, Michael's wife, Heidi Neckelmann, said he sought emergency care three days after the shot because he had dots on his skin that indicated internal bleeding. 

There are also reports of severe allergic reactions

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/01/06/covid-vaccine-cdc-reports-severe-allergic-reactions-anaphylaxis/6564018002/

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As more Americans continue to get vaccinated against COVID-19, U.S. officials continue to monitor for severe allergic reactions and other adverse events after getting the vaccine.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said early safety monitoring has detected 21 cases of anaphylaxis, a severe allergic reaction, after receiving the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine.

The cases were detected in a pool of 1,893,360 first doses administered from Dec. 14 to 23. This translates to 11.1 cases of anaphylaxis per 1 million doses, said Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, in a media briefing Wednesday.

This is higher than the flu vaccine, which has an average outcome rate of 1.3 cases per 1 million doses. However, Messonnier said the rate of anaphylaxis in the COVID-19 vaccine is still considered a rare outcome.

no one commented on that intercept article I posted before about how the vaccine companies in America have robust legal protections against people who might be harmed by the vaccine. I just think it is something to keep an eye on.

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grandpa in the ICU .. doctors giving him a 50/50 chance. oof. miserable.

Well after 7 days in a row treating 40-odd patients daily without any available PPE I unsurprisingly came down with coronavirus symptoms on Monday. All feels a bit weird at home as my wife (who also

Thanks Jules!

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@bupkis Do you plan on taking the vaccine when it's available to you?

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i would get the vaccine even if it could only be injected in the peener or vagene. 

Edited by ignatius
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yeah fb is regularly populated with immoral, manipulative, fabricated and crafty propaganda so i searched the name and found that this story is based in truth though there is not yet evidence of causality at the moment.

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Dr. Michael, who had worked as an OBGYN at Mt. Sinai Medical Center for more than a decade, died on January 3rd. According to his wife Heidi Neckelmann, he had been vaccinated on December 18th.

Though there is currently no medical or scientific evidence to suggest that Dr. Michael’s death was triggered by the vaccine, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are conducting a routine investigation into the incident due to the short timeline between the two events.

not sure how many covid vaccines have been administered yet, i think millions, but we would quickly reach the point at which statistically someone would die from a rare condition shortly afterwards with no link to the vaccine, and you can expect that it would immediately hit media with someone attaching the assumption of causality.

but we don't know yet

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/health-experts-investigate-doctor-who-died-weeks-after-receiving-covid-vaccine/2357958/

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I don't get why Walgreens and cvs aren't the ones doling out the vaccine. It's what they do.

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23 minutes ago, Braintree said:

@bupkis Do you plan on taking the vaccine when it's available to you?

I wrote an overly long post explaining all my views about the coronavirus but I just deleted it. To be honest I am tired of thinking about this and it is also pretty stupid to get all into it on an idm forum haha. I would prefer to not take the vaccine but I would definitely get it if my employer required it without the option to work remotely. I am not antivax and I am extremely cautious and conscientious when it comes to being safe and prevent spread especially in relation to people who are high risk.

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11 hours ago, bupkis said:

@rhmilo I do not understand your hostility here. Just because we cannot see each other does not make it okay to call someone a nut. That man really did die after getting vaccinated and he was otherwise healthy. The story just broke last night and that daily mail article and his wifes facebook post were the only sources I could find last night. USA today picked up the story today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/01/06/death-florida-doctor-following-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-under-investigation-gregory-michael/6574414002/

You’re posting anti vax propaganda you copied from Facebook, that’s why.

Also note the USA Today article says something entirely different than the nonsense from Facebook / Daily Mail (which is a seriously scummy tabloid, btw), namely that one of the tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of people who were vaccinated had some sort of medical issue sometime after the injection. Well d’uh.

I’m willing to bet there’s also a couple of dozen people who sprained their ankle in the weeks after being vaccinated. So what?

Either you really don’t understand this, in which case you are too uninformed to be posting anything about the vaccine in the first place, or you do, in which case you’re trolling and fear mongering. Either way you should piss off. There is tons of solid, dependable information on this vaccine (that has been a decade in the making, btw) out there and it really is very, very easy to find.

 

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2 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

You’re posting anti vax propaganda you copied from Facebook, that’s why.

Also note the USA Today article says something entirely different than the nonsense from Facebook / Daily Mail (which is a seriously scummy tabloid, btw), namely that one of the tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of people who were vaccinated had some sort of medical issue sometime after the injection. Well d’uh.

I’m willing to bet there’s also a couple of dozen people who sprained their ankle in the weeks after being vaccinated. So what?

Either you really don’t understand this, in which case you are too uninformed to be posting anything about the vaccine in the first place, or you do, in which case you’re trolling and fear mongering. Either way you should piss off. There is tons of solid, dependable information on this vaccine (that has been a decade in the making, btw) out there and it really is very, very easy to find.

 

Why are you so hostile to this guy? He’s being reasonable. 
People like you, those who blindly trust ‘authority’ and vehemently attack those asking questions, are, quite frankly, terrifying.

You sound like a facist.

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I've had quite a few vaccinations. Can't even remember them all. Around 10 maybe? All other went without side effects but yellow fever vax gave me 4 days of fever reaching 40C (104F), but I'd still rather have the vax than risk getting the yellow fever.

When I was getting the yellow fever vax the doctor also considered giving me the cholera vax but then decided that it's probably not necessary. When I found myself in a country going through a cholera epidemic I started to regret that I didn't get that one also. Finally I got the hell out of there because they started to consider closing down the borders.

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25 minutes ago, drome said:

You sound like a facist.

Thank you. This is a first for me.

It’s probably deserved, too. My patience with and understanding for anti vaxxers and other conspiracy nuts such as yourself has completely evaporated away over the past year and I sincerely hope we can come up with a way to take away their ability to spread their misinformation and lies.

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I'll reiterate.

People who oppose vaccinations do so mostly because they lack even the most basic knowledge of how science works; due to their lack of knowledge they are unable to evaluate said knowledge, leading to overestimation when self-evaluating their knowledge on the subject, and a lot of times this leads to illusory superiority - they think their knowledge is unsurpassed because they've read things that they falsely believe to be true (because they don't know enough to differentiate between valid and invalid information) and can regurgitate them at will (or link to them and tell everyone to do their own research - like the stereotypical vegan they'll never miss an opportunity to cause acute facepalming by letting everyone know). This is the gist of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and anti-vaxxers are the textbook example.

Each day way, WAY more people die from adverse effects from over-the-counter pharmaceuticals (deemed safe decades ago and used by millions of people daily) compared to people getting side-effects, let alone dying from COVID-19 vaccinations. Globally, two million people have died from COVID-19, more than 17,5 % (that's 350,000 human beings) of them in the US alone; globally, over 17 million people have already been vaccinated, and statistically speaking the adverse (side-)effects and/or deaths are not even a blip on the radar - understanding that will require a basic grasp of statistics, which is mostly - alas - too much to ask from a lot of people.

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9 minutes ago, dcom said:

understanding that will require a basic grasp of statistics, which is a lot of the time - alas - too much to ask from a lot of people.

This might be the thing that irritates me most about many of my American peers.

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38 minutes ago, Extralife said:

This might be the thing that irritates me most about many of my peers.

FTFY.

This is fine, btw. But if you don’t understand something, you should listen to the people who do.

You shouldn’t get a platform where you can broadcast your ignorance to millions of people.

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1 hour ago, rhmilo said:

But if you don’t understand something, you should listen to the people who do.

You shouldn’t get a platform where you can broadcast your ignorance to millions of people.

We have a problem with this in America with the widespread exceptionalism and entitlement that has been bred into my generation (born 1981) and younger.  We were raised to think we're #1 and special and never wrong.

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23 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

We have a problem with this in America with the widespread exceptionalism and entitlement that has been bred into my generation (born 1981) and younger.  We were raised to think we're #1 and special and never wrong.

You're not wrong there. 😉

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@bupkis my take regarding the hostility you received is that you posted that FB stuff without offering any sort of explanation as to why you were posting it. it is unsubstantiated heresay that implies the vaccine killed that guy, when no one knows for sure that is the case. I can see why someone would conclude that you were posting this to somehow warn us about the dangers of the vaccine, when in fact you followed up and clarified this is not what you intended. maybe next time a 1 or 2 liner commenting on a link you post may be good to clarify your intentions? it can even be filled with cynicism/sarcasm/snark, as that is the watmm way...

@rhmilo maybe would've been better to ask him to clarify first before launching into attack mode? I'm with you that anyone doubting the validity of the vaccine is not at all helping the current crisis, but it seems he wasn't intending to promote this line of thought. it wasn't totally obvious to me either at first why he posted that, but I get it now after he posted a follow up. 

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4 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

1p3dxlP.png

You have captured my essence, even guessed right that I have glasses and partiality towards bowties. What an honour.

Edited by dcom
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34 minutes ago, zero said:

maybe would've been better to ask him to clarify first before launching into attack mode?

Nope. He had already posted that god awful NY Mag article (the one that barfed up a whole bunch of irrelevant “gee isn’t it a coincidence” garbage to suggest COVID-19 is man made and virus research labs spread death and disease. So he’d made his position absolutely clear even before he posted crap off Facebook - and then following it up with all sorts of disingenuous “other sources” and “just asking questions” nonsense.

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4 hours ago, dcom said:

I'll reiterate.

People who oppose vaccinations do so mostly because they lack even the most basic knowledge of how science works; due to their lack of knowledge they are unable to evaluate said knowledge, leading to overestimation when self-evaluating their knowledge on the subject, and a lot of times this leads to illusory superiority - they think their knowledge is unsurpassed because they've read things that they falsely believe to be true (because they don't know enough to differentiate between valid and invalid information) and can regurgitate them at will (or link to them and tell everyone to do their own research - like the stereotypical vegan they'll never miss an opportunity to cause acute facepalming by letting everyone know).

For future reference, this is exactly where I stopped reading what you had to say. Just take that critique and put it in your pocket.

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10 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Nope. He had already posted that god awful NY Mag article (the one that barfed up a whole bunch of irrelevant “gee isn’t it a coincidence” garbage to suggest COVID-19 is man made and virus research labs spread death and disease. So he’d made his position absolutely clear even before he posted crap off Facebook - and then following it up with all sorts of disingenuous “other sources” and “just asking questions” nonsense.

ok fair enough. I hadn't really been following, nor read, what he had posted previously, and didn't realize there was a trend here.

indeed, anyone promoting false flag conspiracy type stuff that may hinder us all to get past this pandemic, should be prepared to take on opposition and criticism.

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22 minutes ago, Braintree said:

For future reference, this is exactly where I stopped reading what you had to say. Just take that critique and put it in your pocket.

I'm painfully aware that my attempts at humour often miss their mark, thank you.

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21 minutes ago, zero said:
39 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Nope. He had already posted that god awful NY Mag article (the one that barfed up a whole bunch of irrelevant “gee isn’t it a coincidence” garbage to suggest COVID-19 is man made and virus research labs spread death and disease. So he’d made his position absolutely clear even before he posted crap off Facebook - and then following it up with all sorts of disingenuous “other sources” and “just asking questions” nonsense.

ok fair enough. I hadn't really been following, nor read, what he had posted previously, and didn't realize there was a trend here.

indeed, anyone promoting false flag conspiracy type stuff that may hinder us all to get past this pandemic, should be prepared to take on opposition and criticism.

The thread has been pretty rife with that "is it or isn't it??? i don no u make up ur own mind" stuff which is why I asked them directly.

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