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^ bad leadership is the determining factor, both in the US and the UK. thick, slow conservative cunts who can't answer questions about how to face social/economic problems in an ever-changing world naturally cannot be trusted to handle fast-evolving situations like pandemics either. the difference now is that their incompetence shows very clearly in the form of a mounting human death toll, whereas before it was easier to mask with things like "look how many jobs we created" or "this is a free marketplace of ideas".

not saying that conservatism is the core problem here per se, even if it has had a big hand in the UK's woes of late (not just on covid, on Brexit, on a bunch of other things). bad leadership comes in various forms. Sweden fucked up its covid response and remains adamant that it didn't. so did Belgium. so did any other nation that aimed for herd immunity (a terrible misuse of that concept). meanwhile Australia has a conservative government and we've handled the situation well overall, which I think is due to the importance/influence of our broader public sector and especially public health leadership, over and above our cunt PM and other key cunt politicians.

2 hours ago, prdctvsm said:

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to reiterate, bad leadership comes in various forms. I think this is a trite explanation. prioritising the big moneymaking machine over human lives definitely doesn't help, but the society that has made itself dependent on that machine will start to die if it doesn't keep ticking over, so a balance must be struck (whilst also trying to change the machine). also people who think the US/UK are the most capitalist countries on Earth have not lived in 'new money' countries that raced to acquire all the trappings of late capitalism whilst making none of the social progress, e.g. the UAE. it's a class hellscape over there, and they seem to have handled covid ok, in terms of lives anyway.

the US and the UK fucked up because of the men with the yee yee ass haircuts, first and foremost. the reasons behind why the people put them in power in the first place are more complex and difficult to unpack.

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grandpa in the ICU .. doctors giving him a 50/50 chance. oof. miserable.

Well after 7 days in a row treating 40-odd patients daily without any available PPE I unsurprisingly came down with coronavirus symptoms on Monday. All feels a bit weird at home as my wife (who also

Thanks Jules!

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It seems to me that dawdling on initial lockdown was huge. 3 weeks in an exponential growth situation is huge. I patched work when I saw Italy fall because I got paranoid about how fatal it was, but my work was still serving drunk teams for a full 2 weeks before the government lockdown. The first lockdown was brutal, and it worked. The Christmas tiered lockdowns have been a shitshow.

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12 hours ago, usagi said:

^ bad leadership is the determining factor, both in the US and the UK. thick, slow conservative cunts who can't answer questions about how to face social/economic problems in an ever-changing world naturally cannot be trusted to handle fast-evolving situations like pandemics either. the difference now is that their incompetence shows very clearly in the form of a mounting human death toll, whereas before it was easier to mask with things like "look how many jobs we created" or "this is a free marketplace of ideas".

not saying that conservatism is the core problem here per se, even if it has had a big hand in the UK's woes of late (not just on covid, on Brexit, on a bunch of other things). bad leadership comes in various forms.

there's some suggestion that what currently passes as conservative in the UK is not as it would be historically described as being. a big clue on that front is old conservative politicians popping up and saying they fucked it. i suspect we're getting a distorted form of conservative approach that isn't conserving as much as it's flailing and trying not to get killed off completely. inherent lack of ability in those in government is a factor, brexit as a priority for choosing cabinet members is another, as is a presumption and portrayal that progressive attitudes are bad because they highlight lack of progress and those that are responsible for being slow and ineffective in what ever they do.

 

big push from government to have the public paint themselves are dyed in the cloth "good" (like us) or "bad" (like them) rather than accept people in the roles change, and those that chose best candidates for the time could go between voting for a major party or another across their lifetime. there's also been a lot of blatant copying of trump ideas, with the tier system of lockdowns looking like punishment for not being run by conservative MPs or councils, with higher / problematic infection rates in conservative areas getting off lightly, or with better financial support. big suspicion is also that BJ (our PM) is more journalist than politician. very similar to withdrawal of support for states run by opposition governors and areas that don't traditionally vote in trumps direction.

 

for me, the UK can't quite get it's head around running an economy being the same issue as dealing with the virus. and going in hard and fast is nerve-wracking and likely to cause / suggest bigger issues with how services and financing has been cut to the bone over the last ten years. a lot of avoidance of issues has been to do with the complication (lack of people to do stuff) and expense (not willing to pay to compensate for cuts made) due to 2008 crash of economy which was by choice but dismantled infrastructure so much they don't want to draw more attention to it's effects.

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One specific thing I find annoying about the Boris government approach is that international travel restrictions/border control have consistently been an afterthought throughout the whole pandemic. They fought, won and implemented a brexit where border control was one of the central themes, and were handed probably their only chance to win hearts and minds on the other side, and they just fucked it.

 

Of course everyone with a brain knows the border control arguments for brexit were completely bogus and it was just racism, but yeah

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valid points all round. I wonder though how much of the older conservative guard's criticism isn't just easy sniping from the sidelines and if they could have actually done a better job themselves rather than getting bogged down with party politics and making the same mistakes.

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1 hour ago, Amen Warrior said:

One specific thing I find annoying about the Boris government approach is that international travel restrictions/border control have consistently been an afterthought throughout the whole pandemic. They fought, won and implemented a brexit where border control was one of the central themes, and were handed probably their only chance to win hearts and minds on the other side, and they just fucked it.

 

Of course everyone with a brain knows the border control arguments for brexit were completely bogus and it was just racism, but yeah

Its a weird one , isn't it...I think it just highlights how scattergun their polices and decision making process is, they really are just making it up each time as they go.

Which has been disastrous the last year as we need to be 3-4 weeks ahead of the curve with pre-emptive decisions. 

The one thing the government have been consistent about the last few years, as a key principle in the need for Brexit is taking back control of the borders and immigration. 

Locking down a small island state, limiting flights and putting in place lockdown hotels, testing every essential traveller coming in was all necessary and achievable (as other countries have proved).

You think they would have jumped at the chance to go in hard now and then keep the tough measures even after covid...

But no, to much much hassle, didnt want the blowback from the Airlines or to restrict the liberties of Boris's dad and all the trust fund influencers still wanting to travel.

 

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On 2/2/2021 at 4:01 PM, Sensitive Outsider said:

Its a weird one , isn't it...I think it just highlights how scattergun their polices and decision making process is, they really are just making it up each time as they go.

Which has been disastrous the last year as we need to be 3-4 weeks ahead of the curve with pre-emptive decisions. 

The one thing the government have been consistent about the last few years, as a key principle in the need for Brexit is taking back control of the borders and immigration. 

Locking down a small island state, limiting flights and putting in place lockdown hotels, testing every essential traveller coming in was all necessary and achievable (as other countries have proved).

You think they would have jumped at the chance to go in hard now and then keep the tough measures even after covid...

But no, to much much hassle, didnt want the blowback from the Airlines or to restrict the liberties of Boris's dad and all the trust fund influencers still wanting to travel.

 

business looked very influential in earlier decisions about how UK government was going to move and when. there's been a resistance to making moves that might alter a way of life (conserving, being conservative) which, ironically, result in more intricate and fundamental changes to how life needs to be lived because it's picking around the edges of issues and being prolonged, slow, ineffective, repetitive and a 'new normal' that wasn't wanted, intended or just goes a long way from the starting point as a result.

the hard and fast approach looks reckless, as though lacking inspiration or nuance, and could have been perceived to be risky in loss of momentum of economy, despite the virus being an aspect of economy and not a balance of two separate issues, but prevents the need for ever more complicated actions that get altered slightly, or don't look substantial enough, confuse, frustrate, tire, lose support. all the time, over the many months, the next slow, careful choice looks too little, too late. and the deaths pile up very quickly when you take the brakes off lockdowns because people feel liberated as though the primary concern is over, despite it only subsiding temporarily. 

the international comparisons will come back to haunt politicians in any country with a high rate, because any aspect they care to say was unavoidable was possibly avoided elsewhere, any measure not in place here was possibly carried out elsewhere, any population density issue or localised health or financial issues were simultaneously handled in a variety of ways as well as common ways which proved to contribute towards relatively effective (often close to zero) deaths, change to life, expense and so on. we've seen an issue play out globally and provide real-time comparisons when political inaction and incompetence usually relies upon comparable situations not being so visible due to time elapsing between something occurring here and having occurred elsewhere in the past.

there will be a massive attempt to highlight domestically individual issues with each country that goes down the tribunal route to "learn the lessons", but it will have been a virus moving everywhere, killing everywhere, at the same time with the same year, and people will have to assess the successes and failures by comparison of common concerns; that infections are carried, that allowing movement allow carrying, that accumulative movement and mixing causes deaths. trace it back from death, and it will have been as a result of allowing (or not cracking down effectively on) movement as it's the only way covid-19 gets a chance to kill. it's not coincidence, it's fundamental.

Edited by logboy
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On 2/1/2021 at 6:08 PM, Upset man said:

That’s the benefits of good leadership on an island 1300ish?) miles from Australia. 

The United States and England never stood a chance.

UK & Ireland have the advantage of being smaller land bodies surrounded by water. They wasted that advantage it seems.

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12 hours ago, Rubin Farr said:

UK & Ireland have the advantage of being smaller land bodies surrounded by water. They wasted that advantage it seems.

But unlike New Zealand they have tons of traffic coming in every day.
 

No single European country, not even a rogue island one, stood a chance once the virus entered the continent.

 

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We're finally getting a mass vaccination site in SF: https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/moscone-center-becomes-bay-area-mass-covid-vaccination-site/

Both my parents have gotten their first shot. It's good to see some actual progress being made.

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4 minutes ago, Braintree said:

We're finally getting a mass vaccination site in SF: https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/moscone-center-becomes-bay-area-mass-covid-vaccination-site/

Both my parents have gotten their first shot. It's good to see some actual progress being made.

In my neighborhood, there is a school doing vaccinations, but only the 2nd shot with an appointment. And from the looks of the people I pass, a lot are still turned away after arranging to get there on time. Trump wasted an entire fucking year that could have set up a viable national distribution chain. I hope he burns in Hell.

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18 hours ago, Rubin Farr said:

 

Lightening the burden on the US Social Security system, one antimasker at a time. At this point I say let it burn their community out. The store wouldn’t stay in business if it didn’t have customers and the market is speaking. 

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5 hours ago, hijexx said:

Lightening the burden on the US Social Security system, one antimasker at a time. At this point I say let it burn their community out. The store wouldn’t stay in business if it didn’t have customers and the market is speaking. 

Meanwhile, each person that dies from covid infects 3-5 other people who may think masks work.

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21 minutes ago, Braintree said:

Meanwhile, each person that dies from covid infects 3-5 other people who may think masks work.

I'm not really being serious. Just pisses me off to see people not caring like that.

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:06 PM, Rubin Farr said:

 

lol the comments under that video are both hilarious and infuriating.

in other news, US is up to 1.5 million doses given each day

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

seems like this thing is really starting to take off. covid cases and deaths seem to be dropping like a rock.

probably a combo of vaccines + "covid season" (or w/e) coming to an end...

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My mom is getting vaccinated right now, I've been getting photos and updates. Pretty terribly conceived, literally thousands of people crammed into a hotel lobby, she's been there almost two hours at this point, obviously being done as cheaply as possible with minimal oversight (and probably a healthy payout to the hotel), and now the next few weeks will be waiting to see if she was infected while getting the vaccine, which is doubly concerning because my father is immunocompromised.  Just disgusting. Not surprising, but disgusting.

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On 2/7/2021 at 5:19 PM, mister miller said:

in other news, US is up to 1.5 million doses given each day

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

seems like this thing is really starting to take off. covid cases and deaths seem to be dropping like a rock.

probably a combo of vaccines + "covid season" (or w/e) coming to an end...

 

Not likely.

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-failure-to-provide-vaccines-to-poorer-countries-is-another-example-of/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Apparently the guy who lives in the apartment next to mine got diagnosed, making him the second person I've known personally irl to officially have covid since it started back in march.

"code red" still ongoing in Montreal. Apparently movie theatres & pools are opening specifically for March Break, but you still can't go out after 8PM, gyms/restaurants/etc are all still closed. i think the next re-assessment is after March Break, fingers crossed that gains are back on the menu soon

It's warm enough that I can easily motivate myself to go jogging in the morning again, so that's nice. During the deepst part of the winter my only form of exercise was yoga, and while it's nice to be able to wrap my leg over my shoulder like a backpack strap, at a certain point you just start to feel like you're getting a little too loose

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