Coronavirus COVID-19

[Soloman Tump]

Went for a nice long walk along the river / through the woods yesterday.  Recorded some great birdsong and the sound the river was making at a weir gate, intense noise!

Was great for the soul and to get some fresh air.  Didn't see anybody for hours. If you get the opportunity, I encourage you all to do the same.  It is an extremely low risk activity and exercise is vitally important for your immune system.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Soloman Tump

[auxien]

i'm pretty sure i saw someone post this many pages ago but it's worth linking up again....updated daily. good for keeping reality in check for, ahem, some people around here.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/

that Avi kid on Twitter from last page looks like a good source for overview too.

[BCM]

Man, quit posting this unsubstantiated nonsense. Posting frightening and ominous rumours and/or lies isn't going to help anything. Quite the opposite actually.

thank you

[dingformung]

5 hours ago, caze said:

yeah, I've heard a few people saying taking NSAIDs (e.g. Ibuprofen) might be more trouble than they're worth.

The French health minister said:

But his assumptions are solely based on this article:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8/fulltext

Which is highly hypothetical. As I understand it the virus can enter the cell more easily when ACE enzymes are inhibited. If that happens more ACE receptors are free and the virus can enter through them. Ibuprofen is not an ACE inhibitor itself though it is speculated that it indirectly causes some ACE inhibition, but there is not enough empiric data. The ibuprofen hypothesis is highly debatable. But I'm no expert, I'm just repeating what I've read

[caze]

3 hours ago, goDel said:

In summary: stay out of the hospitals as much as possible. And only ask for medical advice when you need it. ("need" as opposed to "want" btw. so if you have a fever and *want* to know whether it's covid19...well, think again. wanting is not the same as needing. make that critical assessment what to do yourself. just consider that time spent on you might mean that time is not going to someone who might need help more urgently.)

This is pretty bad advice, I think 'don't take medical advice from people on electronic music forums' is better advice. The problem is someone isn't really able to tell the difference from a "want" and a "need" here, that's what qualified medical advice is for. It's also important for information gathering purposes to contact medical services if you have flu symptoms, and they'll be able to advise you whether you need to go to a hospital or not. Obviously don't go into your GP or a hospital to get advice, but you may need to if you have flu symptoms, so contact (by phone or online) your health service if you do. In China they were triaging anyone showing flu symptoms in special fever diagnosis units (testing everyone in public for high temperatures), this hasn't been set up in most (any?) EU countries yet though. As treatment and diagnosis capacity fluctuates different advice will probably be given out too, so it's important to contact medical services to ensure you have the most up to date advice given out. Self isolation at home isn't enough to stop the spread of this disease, given that most people don't live alone and you especially want to avoid passing on infections to older relatives - eventually more active steps will probably need to be taken: more widespread testing and diagnosis, proper medical isolation for all active carriers.

[BCM]

more sensible information here:

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

[Limo]

20 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

But his assumptions are solely based on this article:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8/fulltext

Which is highly hypothetical. As I understand it the virus can enter the cell more easily when ACE enzymes are inhibited. If that happens more ACE receptors are free and the virus can enter through them. Ibuprofen is not an ACE inhibitor itself though it is speculated that it indirectly causes some ACE inhibition, but there is not enough empiric data. The ibuprofen hypothesis is highly debatable. But I'm no expert, I'm just repeating what I've read

Well, it's the Lancet, for one. So pretty good, no? Also, it's based on multiple observational studies, so it doesn't come out of thin air. AND they've identified a plausible (presumably, I'm not a biologist) mechanism.

I for one am not going to mess around with Ibuprofen for the time being (but then I never use that stuff anyway).

[goDel]

37 minutes ago, caze said:

This is pretty bad advice, I think 'don't take medical advice from people on electronic music forums' is better advice. The problem is someone isn't really able to tell the difference from a "want" and a "need" here, that's what qualified medical advice is for. It's also important for information gathering purposes to contact medical services if you have flu symptoms, and they'll be able to advise you whether you need to go to a hospital or not. Obviously don't go into your GP or a hospital to get advice, but you may need to if you have flu symptoms, so contact (by phone or online) your health service if you do. In China they were triaging anyone showing flu symptoms in special fever diagnosis units (testing everyone in public for high temperatures), this hasn't been set up in most (any?) EU countries yet though. As treatment and diagnosis capacity fluctuates different advice will probably be given out too, so it's important to contact medical services to ensure you have the most up to date advice given out. Self isolation at home isn't enough to stop the spread of this disease, given that most people don't live alone and you especially want to avoid passing on infections to older relatives - eventually more active steps will probably need to be taken: more widespread testing and diagnosis, proper medical isolation for all active carriers.

in all fairness, i wasn't giving medical advice. i just want to make sure people with a mild flu don't go start asking for a test and block the system. (remember, roughly 80% won't need any medical attention. don't want them to call "just in case")

other than that, i'll just move on. i think i've made my point clear.

[d-a-m-o]

3 hours ago, Nil said:

@d-a-m-o https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1136

I hope curfew / lockdown is imminent. I still can’t understand why it’s not already on.

Macron will make a speech tonight but radio was talking about another half assed  lockdown and anyway my boss confirmed that we’ll be working tomorrow. Workplace shutdown will happen if someone is infected but since there’s almost no testing... would like to know the real numbers just for the lol...

[caze]

Just now, goDel said:

remember, roughly 80% won't need any medical attention. don't want them to call "just in case"

society might need them to get medical attention though, to stop the spread of the virus. if you have flu symptoms then calling on the phone, or at the very least checking the health service website (the NHS has a symptoms questionnaire up for example), isn't a big deal.

[zkom]

3 minutes ago, caze said:

society might need them to get medical attention though, to stop the spread of the virus. if you have flu symptoms then calling on the phone, or at the very least checking the health service website (the NHS has a symptoms questionnaire up for example), isn't a big deal.

This seems to be pretty country specific thing. In Finland they just recommend that if you have non-serious flu-like symptoms and are not in a risk group then just self-isolate and don't call the hotlines, they're too busy anyway.

[goDel]

Lets keep it at "country specific" (same holds for  the Netherlands, btw. apparently the UK works differently) 

Also, some useful info about the ibuprofin/paracetamol discussion

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by goDel

[caze]

20 minutes ago, zkom said:

This seems to be pretty country specific thing. In Finland they just recommend that if you have non-serious flu-like symptoms and are not in a risk group then just self-isolate and don't call the hotlines, they're too busy anyway.

It's also time specific, countries who aren't taking the problem seriously now, will probably be doing so in a couple of weeks when it's too late.

[BCM]

if you have non-serious flu-like symptoms and are not in a risk group then just self-isolate and don't call the hotlines, they're too busy anyway.

this is what the UK advice is too

[caze]

7 minutes ago, BCM said:

this is what the UK advice is too

the UK plan is terrible though, hopefully they'll have better advice by the end of the week.

[EdamAnchorman]

I'm at work today; we're supposed to work from home and come in only to support business-critical projects.  They've implemented a schedule so that only a certain number of people are allowed on the site at any given time.  I came in today to get enough data to work from home for a while.

Even though there's hardly anyone here, I'm still turning off the lights in the lab and pissing in the sink because I don't want to use one of the communal restrooms.  

[cwmbrancity]

@caze The system is farcical, 111 is overloaded, but there’s an NHS app now with all the latest (ie fuck all new) advice on it. Registering has taken 10 working days, even with digitised photo I.d. options.

5000 respirators for a nation of 60million? Time to dust off my Dad’s shotguns back into maintenance:

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by cwmbrancity

[Rubin Farr]

The stock market fell so far in overnight futures, trading was halted @ open.

[Silent Member]

People happy with Britains strategy should take a look at this.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-can-herd-immunity-really-protect-us

[goDel]

1 hour ago, caze said:

It's also time specific, countries who aren't taking the problem seriously now, will probably be doing so in a couple of weeks when it's too late.

Not necessarily a matter of taking things seriously though. Or worse, if countries would take it really seriously, like Wutan seriously, everyone is checked any time they enter a location. Not once. But on an ongoing basis.

 

edit: which also helps from having people to call a number ... which then overloads because of the amount of calls. it's just not a good idea to ask people to call with any kind of symptom. sorry. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by goDel

[dingformung]

Just infect everybody so we are finally done with this. Let's get Coronavirus done, get Brexit done

[cwmbrancity]

 

[thebotmakes]

52 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

Just infect everybody so we are finally done with this. Let's get Coronavirus done, get Brexit done

I mean I laugh, but I genuinely think this Boris’ plan.  ‘It worked for brexit....’ 

[Entorwellian]

 

 

Sure, why not

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Entorwellian

[Soloman Tump]

1 hour ago, Gocab said:

People happy with Britains strategy should take a look at this.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-can-herd-immunity-really-protect-us

At what point do I start to think that panic buying is a legitimate strategy for the continuity of my family.