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How does the World view China these days?


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On 4/3/2021 at 6:38 AM, cyanobacteria said:

channel where the guy travels to random places in china and gives candid views of it and speaks to locals

https://www.youtube.com/c/numuves/videos

A different perspective from a guy who lived in China for a long time:

 

And another:

 

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45 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

A different perspective from a guy who lived in China for a long time:

 

And another:

 

these are good and so fucked up. 

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That first guy sounds entitled as fuck though. "Conquering Northern China" might not be the best title for your motorcycle video, bro.

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6 minutes ago, Braintree said:

That first guy sounds entitled as fuck though. "Conquering Northern China" might not be the best title for your motorcycle video, bro.

yeah.. that's pretty tone deaf at a minimum considering the chinese gov't. anywhere else it'd be innocuous language.

even w/entitled vibes it's a crazy story. and his analysis of how things progressed regarding the gov't interest in him is a good example of bureaucratic momentum. it's creepy.  he does sound a bit bougie and stuff but a lot of people would complain about shitty hotels when fleeing a country. still, it seems silly to mention prostitutes, low level criminals etc.. but whatever. maybe he didn't think a whole lot about that part and was just speaking off the top of his head. 

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5 minutes ago, ignatius said:

yeah.. that's pretty tone deaf at a minimum considering the chinese gov't. anywhere else it'd be innocuous language.

even w/entitled vibes it's a crazy story. and his analysis of how things progressed regarding the gov't interest in him is a good example of bureaucratic momentum. it's creepy.  he does sound a bit bougie and stuff but a lot of people would complain about shitty hotels when fleeing a country. still, it seems silly to mention prostitutes, low level criminals etc.. but whatever. maybe he didn't think a whole lot about that part and was just speaking off the top of his head. 

No doubt. He's right, but you get an idea for his mindset/motivation just by hearing his word choice. Also, at the beginning of the first video, he's talking about reasons why he thinks China is great and his town/NYC are inferior, but he's really just describing the mindset of someone in their 20s. Yeah, it's cool to finally have money and live in a big city. That's not endemic to China.

It doesn't change his argument, I just find that portion distracting.

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10 minutes ago, Braintree said:

No doubt. He's right, but you get an idea for his mindset/motivation just by hearing his word choice. Also, at the beginning of the first video, he's talking about reasons why he thinks China is great and his town/NYC are inferior, but he's really just describing the mindset of someone in their 20s. Yeah, it's cool to finally have money and live in a big city. That's not endemic to China.

It doesn't change his argument, I just find that portion distracting.

true. probably one of those things that maybe sounds different if i'd watched all his other videos regularly. i've seen a couple over the years but not enough to think i understand him. it's interesting to think about white people as foreigners in a place like china trying to make a go of it.  it's so common that people immigrate to USA for the same reasons. various experiences are had for sure but immigrants making a go at capitalism in the USA is an old old story.. so old i don't think i've ever noticed it as unusual in all my life. perhaps that's because i grew up in miami which is full of lot's of people who don't look like me.  i guess it's different in different states/cities. 

anyway.. the bits of that guy's china Vlog i've watched are interesting. it's one person's story. i'm sure there are others but they obviously didn't feel the need to "Conquer Northern China"  and post it on youtube.

Edited by ignatius
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Sure but the guy lived in China for 10 years, traveled around a lot, and came back with a different opinion than the first-blush falling in love with the country. As someone who's done something similar (South Korea), my opinion of the country did change over time, not quite as negatively as his, but those first few years where you're young and everything is shiny and new really paint a false picture. And no offense, but you really can't compare public transportation in China to public transportation in the US/Canada, even in cities. It's one of the things China does well (like other East Asian countries). The shiny department stores and stuff - we'll see how long they last. South Korea had a raft of issues where developers cut costs resulting in department stores collapsing and other shit. Give it a few more years in China and you'll likely see the same thing with some of the less well-known bigger developments.

There's another video about some old British fuck who visited Xinjiang 5 times, and says it as if it's a surprise, implying that westerners aren't allowed to visit. Like of course you are, but there are places you aren't allowed to go. I've been to North Korea, twice! There's lots there I wasn't allowed to see. And people who have been there way more times experience the same treatment. I've also been to China, and there is a lot to like, and I met some really great people (including a bartender who was from Xinjiang, I chatted to her quite a bit, this was back in 2008 I think, and she had some interesting things to say about China, not all bad of course, but the economic neglect that Xinjiang suffered was pretty brutal). Also the last time I was in China, in 2015, the air in Beijing was so bad for the whole 3 days I was there it was like smoking constantly.

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With due respect ... during the teens China was an absolute magnet to the absolute lowest the West had to offer. Sure, lots of skilled, sane people went there to do serious, high-paying work in fields the Chinese did not yet have expertise in, but an even larger number came over because they could earn something resembling a living wage for no other reason than that they were white and could speak English. The place was absolutely swarming with mentally unhinged degenerates that spent their days pretending to teach English to elementary school children, trying to bed naive Chinese girls dreaming of mixed race babies and working up a serious alcohol habit.

The people in the first group did not have YouTube channels.

 

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1 hour ago, rhmilo said:

With due respect ... during the teens China was an absolute magnet to the absolute lowest the West had to offer. Sure, lots of skilled, sane people went there to do serious, high-paying work in fields the Chinese did not yet have expertise in, but an even larger number came over because they could earn something resembling a living wage for no other reason than that they were white and could speak English. The place was absolutely swarming with mentally unhinged degenerates that spent their days pretending to teach English to elementary school children, trying to bed naive Chinese girls dreaming of mixed race babies and working up a serious alcohol habit.

The people in the first group did not have YouTube channels.

 

Sweeping generalizations are sweeping generalizations. Well done. Do you know anyone personally who went to China?

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4 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Sweeping generalizations are sweeping generalizations. Well done. Do you know anyone personally who went to China?

Yes. Of both varieties.

 

EDIT but my main point was: don't use YouTube videos for evidence of anything. They're mostly made by retards.

Edited by rhmilo
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15 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Yes. Of both varieties.

 

EDIT but my main point was: don't use YouTube videos for evidence of anything. They're mostly made by retards.

The people of the second variety are never organized enough to run YouTube channels, and usually don’t stick around for 10 years. 
Also I knew plenty of people in East Asia who worked in “respectable” industry and were complete fuck ups. 
And I think it’s important to note that one guy speaks fluent Mandarin, while the other doesn’t. 
But sure, then discount YouTube videos in both cases and look at the documents. 

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25 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

The people of the second variety are never organized enough to run YouTube channels, and usually don’t stick around for 10 years. 
Also I knew plenty of people in East Asia who worked in “respectable” industry and were complete fuck ups. 
And I think it’s important to note that one guy speaks fluent Mandarin, while the other doesn’t. 
But sure, then discount YouTube videos in both cases and look at the documents. 

Running a Youtube channel isn't rocket science.

Neither is sticking around for 10 years if at home it's flipping burgers and your parents' basement for you.

Speaking Mandarin, finally, isn't all that hard, either, especially not after 10 years (*reading* it, on the other hand).

Quote

Also I knew plenty of people in East Asia who worked in “respectable” industry and were complete fuck ups. 

This is true.

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33 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Running a Youtube channel isn't rocket science.

Neither is sticking around for 10 years if at home it's flipping burgers and your parents' basement for you.

Speaking Mandarin, finally, isn't all that hard, either, especially not after 10 years (*reading* it, on the other hand).

The number of alcoholics who run successful YouTube channels is probably not high.

The vast majority of burnouts I knew in South Korea lasted a couple of years on average. 10 was rare.

Speaking Mandarin well is difficult, perhaps not more than reading it, but the intonations in Mandarin as well as the dialects do make things difficult. At least with reading it, it's quite consistent. Also, the number of immigrants I knew in South Korea who couldn't speak the language beyond the basics (despite being far easier to read) after 5 years or more in country, was frankly shocking.

Did you live in China? Where?

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5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

A different perspective from a guy who lived in China for a long time:

 

And another:

 

this just in, anti-communist western bloggers don't like china

also funny how half the complaints apply moreso to the west and capitalism

Edited by cyanobacteria
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2 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

this just in, anti-communist western bloggers don't like china

This just in, China is still not communist.

The guy liked China, and now he doesn't - it's simply a different perspective. I'm sorry he's not eager to kiss fascist boots.

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6 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

This just in, China is still not communist.

The guy liked China, and now he doesn't - it's simply a different perspective. I'm sorry he's not eager to kiss fascist boots.

second video literally admits breaking the law, at least he wasn't put in a jail and made to do forced prison labor with no pay and charged $10 a minute to talk to his family

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15 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

second video literally admits breaking the law, at least he wasn't put in a jail and made to do forced prison labor with no pay and charged $10 a minute to talk to his family

c'mon... he mentions several times the grey areas that everyone in china takes advantage of.  most complaints seemed related to quality of life (food) and changes in amount of freedom of movement allowed... as well as the freedom of expression and being free to dissent even though he says he just as often showed the good along w/the bad and there's plenty of nuance. 

the food issue is one i've seen other stuff about from people inside china. the gutter oil problem is massively gross and unhealthy etc. there's a billion+ people there so obviously everything can't be controlled all the time in all places.. but the bend towards totalitarianism seems to be accelerating as the technology improves.. at least in cities. 

there's a doc i just watched on netflix called "Coded Bias" which has some good info on the algorithms associated w/facial recognition and AI in general.. mostly centered in the USA but there are bits on china that are essentially black mirror episodes... social credit system, facial scanning to buy a soda from a vending machine etc etc.. 

it's not a bad doc.. sometimes gets a bit too woke or cringey but mostly has solid info on how algorithms can be 'bad' at doing work that humans should do but are too lazy. etc. 

edit: only posting these vids as it's something mentioned in the  video.. i know there's tons of finger pointing that can happen in relation to food production, livestock etc in the USA and other places. but just in case gutter oil is a new thing to anyone.. there ya go. 

Edited by ignatius
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12 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Or sentenced to death for dealing drugs as part of some weird political game.

I remember you posted on here that you knew someone that was caught up in that Huawei cluster, and was being held in China. is that one of the people the article mentions on death row? 

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5 hours ago, zero said:

I remember you posted on here that you knew someone that was caught up in that Huawei cluster, and was being held in China. is that one of the people the article mentions on death row? 

No, my friend is Michael Spavor. Luckily he hasn’t been sentenced to death, yet. He was however, tried in a court with no public access, not even diplomats. We don’t know the verdict yet, as that will come later. However, given China’s conviction rate of over 99%, I’d say that things don’t look good for him...

Edit: to clarify - I don’t know if he’ll get the death penalty, as he’s been charged with “national security” offences, as opposed to anything to do with drugs. 
As well, I would be remiss if I forgot to mention that Michael Kovrig, another Canadian who had lived and worked in China for a long time as an analyst with Crisis Group, also remains imprisoned, with little recourse to legal counsel. His trial occurred under similar conditions, with no verdict as yet. Both he and my friend have been imprisoned since December 2018, with few visitation rights, under completely inhumane conditions. 
Given how the last Canadians accused of espionage in China fared (who were not being held for the purposes of hostage diplomacy), I get genuinely angry when I think of my friend being held there, and so do not bring him into conversations about China easily, as it tends to cloud my thinking. 

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