How does the World view China these days?

[Cryptowen]

it's annoying that the biggest challenge to capitalism is an even worse form of capitalism

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, rhmilo said:

He sure is acting like thinks he’s at risk of doing so.

Though I do think cutting down Jack Ma might have been a sensible thing to do: the guy was about to create a privately held financial institution that would have been too big too fail. For all his faults, the emperor did look at what that lead to in the West and decided he’d have none of it.

I mean he may have exacerbated that by clamping down on Ma. When the emperor loses the faith and trust of the people, they are justified in rebelling against the emperor. I think there’s a large underbelly of Chinese people who do not agree with the direction China is taking, but they’re currently placated because of the decades-long rise of China’s economy, and the dragging of huge amounts of people out of poverty (through capitalism lol).

I worry that Xi will use some excuse to start a “just” war to divert attention from the failure in governance that the CCP exhibits. This may be against some perceived domestic threat, or it may be an enlargement of the ongoing clashes with India. The next 5 years will be very interesting in East Asia. 

[usagi]

 

[chenGOD]

https://news.ubc.ca/2021/02/01/china-human-rights-activism/

This is a good take on China's activities. I'm somewhat biased, but Dr. Potter is a pretty incredible thinker on China and Chinese law. It's a shame the book costs $90, but that's academic publishing for you.

[toaoaoad]

8 hours ago, chenGOD said:

https://news.ubc.ca/2021/02/01/china-human-rights-activism/

"China has been quite active in disseminating its human rights orthodoxy and has gotten very little pushback. Part of the reason is that the U.S. has been essentially missing in action in the international human rights discourse for at least the last four years."

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by toaoaoad

[cichlisuite]

21 hours ago, toaoaoad said:

"China has been quite active in disseminating its human rights orthodoxy and has gotten very little pushback. Part of the reason is that the U.S. has been essentially missing in action in the international human rights discourse for at least the last four years."

They are busy exchanging democracy for oil in the Middle East

[hijexx]

I have nothing to add except...

”That’s what Xi said!”

[zlemflolia]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[chenGOD]

^^^ pretty gross by the state department, but I expect nothing less from government prosecutors who i find in my dealings with them to be a remarkably risk averse group of people. 
There’s very clear evidence that genocide as defined in the CPPCG is taking place in China and in Myanmar. 
Myanmar is even more blatant than what’s happening in China. The Tatmadaw literally don’t give a fuck about international opinion and everyone was too busy going down on ASSK to make any noise about the destruction of the Rohyinga. The irony of her supporters calling on the international community in these times would be hilarious if it wasn’t so fucking sad. 

[Braintree]

The Frontline episode on Myanmar was pretty horrible to watch.

[chenGOD]

@Braintreenot available in Canuckistan. Was it about the recent load of shite that went down since about 2016 or so?

[Braintree]

2 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

@Braintreenot available in Canuckistan. Was it about the recent load of shite that went down since about 2016 or so?

It's from 2018, but it's a good overview of the story leading up to the recent coup. Pretty fucked up shit the military has been doing.

[Cryptowen]

I've had a few conversations with western Maoists who handwave "the Uighur thing" as being nothing more than American propaganda, which is kinda troubling to me. I mean like I worry that some kids are gonna be gettin high huffin on that new empire smell, just because they're tired of the old American empire's smell of cheeseburgers & fireworks, and because of that they're going to ignore lots of sketchy shit going on.

also i'm not super well versed (yet) on the history of 20th Century China, but my understanding is that the modern CCP doesn't really resemble Maoism or anything Mao himself oversaw. Is this the case? Communistbros give me some intel here

[zkom]

8 minutes ago, Cryptowen said:

I've had a few conversations with western Maoists who handwave "the Uighur thing" as being nothing more than American propaganda, which is kinda troubling to me. I mean like I worry that some kids are gonna be gettin high huffin on that new empire smell, just because they're tired of the old American empire's smell of cheeseburgers & fireworks, and because of that they're going to ignore lots of sketchy shit going on.

also i'm not super well versed (yet) on the history of 20th Century China, but my understanding is that the modern CCP doesn't really resemble Maoism or anything Mao himself oversaw. Is this the case? Communistbros give me some intel here

Modern CCP and China kind of view Mao as the spiritual father of communist China and the party but also see him as a flawed person and who implement some pretty dubious projects and policies that ended up killing millions. After Mao's death Deng Xiaoping did a bunch of reforms that changed the economy and the political system to a more open and capitalist system.

There's some kind of revival of Maoism happening though now that Xi who was been forefronting communist and nationalist values is in lead. Anyway hardline conservative Maoists are their own thing inside China.

Almost every Chinese person who's been in Finland that I've talked to has said that Finland is much more socialist than modern China

 

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, zkom said:

Almost every Chinese person who's been in Finland that I've talked to has said that Finland is much more socialist than modern China

I mean I don’t know how true it is now, but in the early 2000s the first thing you saw when clearing customs in Shanghai was a huge billboard for Citibank or some fucking American bastion of capitalism. 
 

Edit: also the modern history of China is fucking fascinating, the battles between the Nationalists and the Communists while they were fighting the Japanese plays a huge role in understanding some of modern Chinese thought. But of course you also have to get some of the historical flavour to understand the Han “5,000 years of history” chauvinistic bullshit that Chinese fuckbois like to throw around. If you have access to a university library, (or a well funded public library) go get one of those introductory readers on Chinese history (both modern and classical) and they’ll give you a good idea of what’s going on without the pedantry of academia. 

[chenGOD]

3 hours ago, Braintree said:

Pretty fucked up shit the military has been doing.

Always has been. Ethnic wars, dictatorship, ethnic cleansing, corruption that makes the recent presidential corruption in the US look like kindergarten, just good times all round. 
Oh and for some lighthearted fucked up reading, this history of Myanmar’s currency demonitisations is sadly hilarious. https://www.livemint.com/Sundayapp/LO3bemtSxzcHa2lodLxIDI/A-Ne-Win-situation-Burmas-three-demonetizations.html
 

Read that while remembering that at the beginning of the 20th century, Burma was the richest nation in SE Asia by far. 

[prdctvsm]

song dynasty > bling dynasty 

[zlemflolia]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:46 AM, chenGOD said:

^^^ pretty gross by the state department, but I expect nothing less from government prosecutors who i find in my dealings with them to be a remarkably risk averse group of people. 
There’s very clear evidence that genocide as defined in the CPPCG is taking place in China and in Myanmar. 
Myanmar is even more blatant than what’s happening in China. The Tatmadaw literally don’t give a fuck about international opinion and everyone was too busy going down on ASSK to make any noise about the destruction of the Rohyinga. The irony of her supporters calling on the international community in these times would be hilarious if it wasn’t so fucking sad. 

during times of china hawk administrations and heavy anti-china propaganda being spread, i find it surprising that theyd be lenient on this, it almost suggests alternative interpretations

[zlemflolia]

7 hours ago, Cryptowen said:

I've had a few conversations with western Maoists who handwave "the Uighur thing" as being nothing more than American propaganda, which is kinda troubling to me. I mean like I worry that some kids are gonna be gettin high huffin on that new empire smell, just because they're tired of the old American empire's smell of cheeseburgers & fireworks, and because of that they're going to ignore lots of sketchy shit going on.

also i'm not super well versed (yet) on the history of 20th Century China, but my understanding is that the modern CCP doesn't really resemble Maoism or anything Mao himself oversaw. Is this the case? Communistbros give me some intel here

mao led china under completely different material conditions, attempting to apply marxism-leninism-maoism to modern china wouldn't even make sense because it's a revolutionary theory that was designed for the conditions of china in pre-revolutionary times

the modern communist interpretation is that of an integration into global capitalism with state oversight being used to build socialism by 2050.  only the chinese people decide whether they will succeed, along with outside influences fucking them up.  its not the place of westerners to chauvinistically point fingers and judge the quality of china's communism, it's also not the place of expats who left china and moved to other places for personal benefit under capitalism - these are biased perspectives by definition, especially since many of the expats are so financially privileged that they aren't a part of the class whose prosperity is currently the stated goal of chinese economic progress

given that the Chinese Communist Party has millions of members and very high approval ratings among the Chinese people, they're doing something right.  the conditions many of their ancestors lived in decades ago can scarcely be comprehended by the typical westerner, myself included

https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/articles/conversation-vijay-prashad

http://ouleft.sp-mesolite.tilted.net/?p=1912

Edited February 24, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[Braintree]

Don't mind the tankie.

[chenGOD]

Lol anti-China propaganda and thinking China is communist. You should find Alejandro Cao de Benos and hang out with him. 

[zlemflolia]

6 hours ago, zkom said:

Almost every Chinese person who's been in Finland that I've talked to has said that Finland is much more socialist than modern China

not that you claimed Finland is socialist, but it must be pointed out that they're definitely not, and that the Nordic model only arose because of pressure from the USSR on capitalists in the region, and is merely social democracy, which will probably erode in decades to come

2 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Lol anti-China propaganda and thinking China is communist. You should find Alejandro Cao de Benos and hang out with him. 

"thinking China is communist" is a statement that doesn't even make sense.  No communist would ever call China communist since communism is a mode of production no region has ever achieved yet.  They are also not socialist, even by their own admission, aiming to achieve socialism by 2050.  But they are led by their communist party and their dominant political ideology is in theory socialist, with a roundabout route being taken through capitalist market liberalization - for now.  we will just have to wait and see

Edited February 24, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[zlemflolia]

 

 

4 minutes ago, Braintree said:

Don't mind the tankie.

care to elaborate? tanks are based when being used to defend socialism against fascists

On 1/31/2021 at 1:22 PM, chenGOD said:

I mean he may have exacerbated that by clamping down on Ma. When the emperor loses the faith and trust of the people, they are justified in rebelling against the emperor. I think there’s a large underbelly of Chinese people who do not agree with the direction China is taking, but they’re currently placated because of the decades-long rise of China’s economy, and the dragging of huge amounts of people out of poverty (through capitalism lol).

I worry that Xi will use some excuse to start a “just” war to divert attention from the failure in governance that the CCP exhibits. This may be against some perceived domestic threat, or it may be an enlargement of the ongoing clashes with India. The next 5 years will be very interesting in East Asia. 

christ.  china did not drag anyone out of poverty through capitalism, but by socialism.  it's not profitable to improve living conditions in poor regions and capitalism does -not- do it.  "clamping down" on Ma is the only reasonable thing to do when defending a socialist revolution against capitalists aiming to increase their own power at the expense of the people who are represented by and a part of the Chinese Communist Party, which almost everyone in China is either a member of or a relative of a member of

Edited February 24, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[Braintree]

That's cool that you like tanks. Tankies are idiots though.

[zlemflolia]

7 hours ago, Cryptowen said:

I've had a few conversations with western Maoists who handwave "the Uighur thing" as being nothing more than American propaganda, which is kinda troubling to me. I mean like I worry that some kids are gonna be gettin high huffin on that new empire smell, just because they're tired of the old American empire's smell of cheeseburgers & fireworks, and because of that they're going to ignore lots of sketchy shit going on.

also i'm not super well versed (yet) on the history of 20th Century China, but my understanding is that the modern CCP doesn't really resemble Maoism or anything Mao himself oversaw. Is this the case? Communistbros give me some intel here

my memories of the general takes of these people, and I'm making no personal claims here, is that the Uyghur "genocide" is CIA propaganda mostly propagated by some dude named Adrian Zens, surrounding China's method of deradicalizing extremist muslims and giving women free access to birth control technologies to improve their living conditions, as well as providing education to them all, and that some evidence suggesting this is that most muslim majority countries support China's policies whereas those speaking out the most are the very same countries murdering countless muslims in the middle east in their oil wars.  i can't say it doesn't make sense to have such a perspective