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Israeli-Palestinian conflict


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13 minutes ago, Thu Zaw said:

Not sure I'd call Israel a Western nation

What would you call it? Modern Israel was created through the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate of Palestine (endorsed by the League of Nations and the US), and then partition. The state supposedly adheres to "western" principles such as democracy and a market-based economy, and in theory upholds fundamental human rights. It's major trading partners are the US and UK (and China of course, they need to buy cheap shit like everyone else).

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4 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

My goodness. Perhaps you should read up on your history sometime because you seem to be taking on a bit more than you can chew here, attempting to equate between 200 to 50 years of world wide Western Imperialism to the fairly benign integration of Taiwan into Japan (seriously, look it up),  a 13 year long military occupation of part of China and 4 years of occupying SE Asia during, as you correctly point out, a World War.

You cannot possibly expect me to believe that that you take the boasts of Chinese civil servants at face value. I assume anyone would understand there flattery of writers at one court have no bearing whatsoever on where another court thinks it derives it’s authority from.

Honestly, you should maybe spend a little more time actually studying history instead of just arguing about it on the internet. This is embarrassing.

My man - you should read up on Taiwanese resistance to Japanese rule. Sure the Taiwanese have more respect for the Japanese than Korea, but it is 100% disingenuous to call it benign. The point is that Japan tried to emulate the Western colonizers, not that they did for as long.

It wasn't merely boasts - and those countries often did accept the suzerain-vassal state. For a nuanced look at the issue, I recommend "Ambassadors from the Islands of the Immortals", or "Tradition, Treaties, and Trade: Qing Imperialism and Choson Korea". For a look at how Chinese philosophical thinking affected Korea, Martina Deuchler's "Confucian Transformation of Korea" is required reading.

Of course international relations in East Asia are more nuanced than that, so here, you can read some more of my thoughts on it.

 

ASIA 410 Term Paper (edit).pdf

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7 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

 in theory upholds fundamental human rights. 

Love that the definition of Western is this. 

Lots of countries have democratic governments and trade with the UK and US. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Thu Zaw said:

You have a strange understanding of misanthropy.

 

>a dislike of humankind

it's pretty straightforward lmao, what mental contortions are you doing this time?

13 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

in theory upholds fundamental human rights

why even bother giving in to this charade? it's propagandistic, misleading, and straight out lying. if anything it's also racist, allowing "human rights" to be defined as the thing that western (white) nations define them to be

 

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Just now, Thu Zaw said:

 

Lots of countries have democratic governments and trade with the UK and US. 

Yes and modern democracy kind of originated in "the west". 

But please explain why Israel isn't a western nation?

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1 minute ago, cyanobacteria said:

>a dislike of humankind

it's pretty straightforward lmao, what mental contortions are you doing this time?

Misanthropy can manifest in many ways. I've been through my depressive "I hate everybody" phase. Now I'm at peace with myself. I don't hate people; I hate humanity. I hate it's innate traits of tribalism and ethnocentrism. I hate how the species is uncontrollably destroying the planet in the never-ending pursuit of reproduction. I hate the way tribalism blinds people to the humanity people share despite superficial cultural signifiers.

On an individual level, I can like some people very much. I'm even capable of love. 

But I am a misanthrope in that I've removed myself from the trap of societies. I hold no national, cultural, religious identity. I was never indoctrinated into one, and I've resisted inclusion in favour of an independent approach to being a human. I align myself with no group of people. I'm a self-imposed loner. 

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8 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

"human rights" to be defined as the thing that western (white) nations define them to be

They aren't, the UN declaration has had at least one binding treaty (out of nine) ratified by 193 member nations. Most have ratified four or more. But of the original 58 signatory states, the majority were "western". There's nothing racist about the UDHR.

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5 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Yes and modern democracy kind of originated in "the west". 

But please explain why Israel isn't a western nation?

So Japan, South Korea, Brazil, India, etc are Western nations too?

The definition of Western isn't concrete. It's an outdated, archaic idea, just like the idea of 'races'. Some take it in it's original geographic sense, some in an ethnic sense, and some in the sense of a civilization.

 

Off to bed. Nighty night. 

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reading the united nations security council resolutions pertaining to the nation of Israel, translated by sir richard francis burton in 26 volumes as part of the “sacred texts of the east” collection 

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3 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

reading the united nations security council resolutions pertaining to the nation of Israel, translated by sir richard francis burton in 26 volumes as part of the “sacred texts of the east” collection 

EWFbiZ-UYAIXKxQ.jpg

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Thu Zaw said:

Misanthropy can manifest in many ways. I've been through my depressive "I hate everybody" phase. Now I'm at peace with myself. I don't hate people; I hate humanity. I hate it's innate traits of tribalism and ethnocentrism. I hate how the species is uncontrollably destroying the planet in the never-ending pursuit of reproduction. I hate the way tribalism blinds people to the humanity people share despite superficial cultural signifiers.

On an individual level, I can like some people very much. I'm even capable of love. 

But I am a misanthrope in that I've removed myself from the trap of societies. I hold no national, cultural, religious identity. I was never indoctrinated into one, and I've resisted inclusion in favour of an independent approach to being a human. I align myself with no group of people. I'm a self-imposed loner. 

Edge.jpg

 

Edited by cyanobacteria
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1 minute ago, Thu Zaw said:

So Japan, South Korea, Brazil, India, etc are Western nations too?

The definition of Western isn't concrete. It's an outdated, archaic idea, just like the idea of 'races'. Some take it in it's original geographic sense, some in an ethnic sense, and some in the sense of a civilization.

 

Off to bed. Nighty night. 

Japan was so influenced by the west during the Meiji restoration, (Ian Buruma's "Inventing Japan" is a really good, quick read) and have taken on a lot of Western influence through cultural exchange. South Korea's relation with the US and the west is also very evident. To deny the British influence on India is really just.."not on". 

But yes the definition of the west isn't concrete, and those concepts of occident and orient are extremely archaic. But in a geopolitical sense, Israel is very much a Western nation.

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                                                                    tell us one or two things brian

 

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Posted (edited)

My advice to everyone on this forum, once the virus is over, get the fuck out of your little bubbles and explore the world and actually meet some people. 

You spend your lives debating other Americans online, insisting you have a profound, intellectual understanding about humanity, civilization, and conflict. But it's all fucking theoretical and masturbatory. 

Your main focus in discussing international politics is to one-up some other ego on some niche little message board frequented by spotty post-adolescent Americans. 

Your actual understanding of other humans is so impersonal. Peoples' lives, as they try to survive war and terror, are simply concepts for you to debate from the comfort of your couch while munching on a box of Pringles with one hand and casually stroking your dick with the other.  You're not political analysts. You're not on CNN. Stop trying to sound like you are. It's really childish and pathetic. 

This whole thread reeks of 

r/iamverysmart

Edited by Thu Zaw
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10 hours ago, chenGOD said:

My man - you should read up on Taiwanese resistance to Japanese rule. Sure the Taiwanese have more respect for the Japanese than Korea, but it is 100% disingenuous to call it benign. The point is that Japan tried to emulate the Western colonizers, not that they did for as long.

It wasn't merely boasts - and those countries often did accept the suzerain-vassal state. For a nuanced look at the issue, I recommend "Ambassadors from the Islands of the Immortals", or "Tradition, Treaties, and Trade: Qing Imperialism and Choson Korea". For a look at how Chinese philosophical thinking affected Korea, Martina Deuchler's "Confucian Transformation of Korea" is required reading.

Of course international relations in East Asia are more nuanced than that, so here, you can read some more of my thoughts on it.

 

ASIA 410 Term Paper (edit).pdf 150.2 kB · 2 downloads

Probably wisest to stop digging 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Probably wisest to stop digging 🤷‍♂️

 

Or you could accept that I've actually read a fair bit about East Asian history, and try and counter those points?

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44 minutes ago, Thu Zaw said:

My advice to everyone on this forum, once the virus is over, get the fuck out of your little bubbles and explore the world and actually meet some people. 

You spend your lives debating other Americans online, insisting you have a profound, intellectual understanding about humanity, civilization, and conflict. But it's all fucking theoretical and masturbatory. 

Your main focus in discussing international politics is to one-up some other ego on some niche little message board frequented by spotty post-adolescent Americans. 

Your actual understanding of other humans is so impersonal. Peoples' lives, as they try to survive war and terror, are simply concepts for you to debate from the comfort of your couch while munching on a box of Pringles with one hand and casually stroking your dick with the other.  You're not political analysts. You're not on CNN. Stop trying to sound like you are. It's really childish and pathetic. 

This whole thread reeks of 

r/iamverysmart

I see why Snares bullied you. not everyone on this forum is a white American or European, guy (nor does that necessarily discount the valid views of anyone who is of that stock). your world-traveller uberkultur ambassador schtick got tired pretty quickly and rather than feeling some kind of self-awareness about how lame it is to keep repeating it you double down on it at every opportunity. I put it to you that your theatrical enlightenment and performative liberalism is most likely as useless in the real world as any of the perceived armchair analytics you're railing against itt. this is a forum for wanking over pictures of Richard D James and the Brothers 'Chramazov, solving world crises is slightly beyond its scope.

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8 minutes ago, usagi said:

I see why Snares bullied you. not everyone on this forum is a white American or European, guy (nor does that necessarily discount the valid views of anyone who is of that stock). your world-traveller uberkultur ambassador schtick got tired pretty quickly and rather than feeling some kind of self-awareness about how lame it is to keep repeating it you double down on it at every opportunity. I put it to you that your theatrical enlightenment and performative liberalism is most likely as useless in the real world as any of the perceived armchair analytics you're railing against itt. this is a forum for wanking over pictures of Richard D James and the Brothers 'Chramazov, solving world crises is slightly beyond its scope.

Wait wait wait, I've got the best comeback for this....

 

professor farnsworth GIF

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58 minutes ago, usagi said:

breaking news: entire nation of Ireland declared anti-semitic

That happened a long time ago, back at least to the 50's when Erskine Childers exposed the myth that Arab nations called for the evacuation of Palestinians during the Nakba, or maybe when when we complained about Israel murdering our peacekeepers (repeatedly), or when we complained about them forging our passports for assassination squads... it's hard to keep track of all the anti-semitism.

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1 hour ago, usagi said:

breaking news: entire nation of Ireland declared anti-semitic

and then placed on time out.

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8 hours ago, Thu Zaw said:

insisting you have a profound, intellectual understanding about humanity, civilization, and conflict. But it's all fucking theoretical and masturbatory. 

that’s a mirror

 

 

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