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ICE creating gas chambers for undocumented immigrants


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The problem is that political terms with a specific meaning have suddenly a different meaning when it's in the US. E.g. Bernie Sanders' program is - apart from some details - almost identical with the

You have to be clinically delusional or acting in bad faith to deny that the cops are fucking terrorists at this point.

Report finds ICE detention center is using a disinfectant over 50 times a day that causes bleeding and pain https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfectant-causing-bleeding-and-

7 hours ago, Dragon said:

i don't think anyone's happy about this. the terrible things that happen in this world aren't a fucking competition.

i don't know what it would take for you to get your head out of your ass enough to realise this, so, idk. there are dozens of world issues just as horrific as the one in this topic, just do your thing ChenGOD. you tell 'em.

Step 1. Divide the liberals and conservatives even more, eliminating centrists. COMPLETE

Step 2. Divide the bourgeoisie and proletariat within the liberals with "if you don't 100% agree then you're evil" vs. "there are better ways to prove a point" statements. IN PROGRESS

Step 3. Conservatives do whatever you want and still win the election because liberals are divided and disillusioned. QUEUED

Result: The weak US is ready to be manipulated and trampled by foreign entities.

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The problem is that political terms with a specific meaning have suddenly a different meaning when it's in the US. E.g. Bernie Sanders' program is - apart from some details - almost identical with the program of Germany's conservative party's progressive wing. He would be a centrist here, a right wing social democrat or a progressive conservative. In the US he is a far left radical. The Overton window in the US has nothing to do with the reality of politics elsewhere, it's shifted pretty far to the right and it's frustrating that even intelligent US Americans fail to see to what an extend this is the case.

This thread title is embarrassing, though. When I think of gas chambers I think of the planned extermination of millions of jews and other opponents to the national socialists. The praxis of spraying disinfectant on people in the way you describe is gross and inhumane, something that's unfortunately done to refugees entering Europe by boat by Italian border patrol, too, but can't be compared to the Holocaust. It's bad taste to do so. 

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6 hours ago, Lada Laika said:

You have to be clinically delusional or acting in bad faith to deny that the cops are fucking terrorists at this point.

 Not really. But you do have to acknowledge that terrible policy has allowed the malignant tumours within police services to act unpunished. The whole ACAB slogan is stupid as fuck. For all the shitty things that happen, there are thousands of police and non-police interactions that are peaceful. 
Anyone who’s studied power structures and militarization of organizations will tell you how hard it is for anyone junior to speak out against senior members of the organization. 
When you are in a culture for long enough, you come to see it as normal. But reform is possible (as in the example ignatius posted about a Camden). It won’t be easy. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-police-chiefs-grapple-officers-treatment-young-black-men-n873561

You have to make sure for example, that if you restore community policing (which is a good thing and needs to be done), that salaries are good enough for officers to overlook bribe money. 
 

You have ensure that when sending mental health professionals to defuse domestic violence situations, they are aware of the potential for violence from possibly armed individuals (since I don’t see people giving up guns in the US anytime soon), and to make them feel safer, have some form of backup. 
 

But again, participating in local elections to put people in place who will institute these types of policies will do more than burning everything to the ground. 

5 minutes ago, dingformung said:

This thread title is embarrassing, though

Better than his first attempt. 

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59 minutes ago, dingformung said:

Reminds me on the coffee prohibition, a time when police would shoot people for drinking coffee

Wait what?

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19 hours ago, dingformung said:

 

This thread title is embarrassing, though. When I think of gas chambers I think of the planned extermination of millions of jews and other opponents to the national socialists. The praxis of spraying disinfectant on people in the way you describe is gross and inhumane, something that's unfortunately done to refugees entering Europe by boat by Italian border patrol, too, but can't be compared to the Holocaust. It's bad taste to do so. 

This was exactly my point in my first post. But you probably explained it better than I did.

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On 6/8/2020 at 1:49 AM, chenGOD said:

The system is messed up, and culture and policies need to change, but hey guess what - you, individual you, have that power. Go. Vote. In. Local. Elections.

Voting is completely useless lol it definitely stopped Hitler in 1933 and allowed the French to get rid of absolute monarchy. The rich and powerful will never allow you to undermine their power and they will never allow you to vote away their power. It's pretty much the slowest and least effective way of going about anything.

Edit: just to add, so long as your populace is brainwashed into agreeing with what ever is going on, then voting won't do shit. People are told to vote by people already in power...

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56 minutes ago, milkface said:

Voting is completely useless lol it definitely stopped Hitler in 1933 and allowed the French to get rid of absolute monarchy. The rich and powerful will never allow you to undermine their power and they will never allow you to vote away their power. It's pretty much the slowest and least effective way of going about anything.

Edit: just to add, so long as your populace is brainwashed into agreeing with what ever is going on, then voting won't do shit. People are told to vote by people already in power...

Actually, the rise of Hitler is a very good illustration of the fact that not voting in earnest causes problems. The Nazis in 1932 were the largest party, but they only had 33% of the vote. The social democrats had 20% of the vote, the communists 15% and the Catholic “center party” 10%.

So 48% of the electorate wasted its vote on a populist fringe party meaning there was no way for more or less moderate parties to govern properly.

And it really is a waste to vote for populists because their platforms are so incoherent if not outright self-contradictory there is absolutely no way they can keep their promises when they come to power. All that they can do is make noise and cause chaos.

So, yes, vote. For moderates. The alternative could very well be literally Hitler.

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Just now, rhmilo said:

Actually, the rise of Hitler is a very good illustration of the fact that not voting in earnest causes problems. The Nazis in 1932 were the largest party, but they only had 33% of the vote. The social democrats had 20% of the vote, the communists 15% and the Catholic “center party” 10%.

So 55% of the electorate wasted its vote on a populist fringe party meaning there was no way for more or less moderate parties to govern properly.

And it really is a waste to vote for populists because their platforms are so incoherent if not outright self-contradictory there is absolutely no way they can keep their promises when they come to power. All that they can do is make noise and cause chaos.

So, yes, vote. For moderates. The alternative could very well be literally Hitler.

Equally true. Not voting causes problems, voting causes very little to happen.

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1 hour ago, brian trageskin said:

if i had a nickel for every time someone mentions nazis these days

I wonder why that is ...

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3 hours ago, milkface said:

Voting is completely useless lol it definitely stopped Hitler in 1933 and allowed the French to get rid of absolute monarchy. The rich and powerful will never allow you to undermine their power and they will never allow you to vote away their power. It's pretty much the slowest and least effective way of going about anything.

Edit: just to add, so long as your populace is brainwashed into agreeing with what ever is going on, then voting won't do shit. People are told to vote by people already in power...

Rhimlo provides the counter to the Hitler nonsense, and I wasn’t aware that the French had a representative democracy prior to the revolution. 
Voting absolutely changes things, to think otherwise is lunacy. 

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4 hours ago, rhmilo said:

Actually, the rise of Hitler is a very good illustration of the fact that not voting in earnest causes problems. The Nazis in 1932 were the largest party, but they only had 33% of the vote. The social democrats had 20% of the vote, the communists 15% and the Catholic “center party” 10%.

So 48% of the electorate wasted its vote on a populist fringe party meaning there was no way for more or less moderate parties to govern properly.

And it really is a waste to vote for populists because their platforms are so incoherent if not outright self-contradictory there is absolutely no way they can keep their promises when they come to power. All that they can do is make noise and cause chaos.

So, yes, vote. For moderates. The alternative could very well be literally Hitler.

"vote for moderates or else we'll kill you all" -bourgeoisie

imagine thinking hitler was a populist who came to power because people didn't vote, rather than a guy who had the cooperation of the entire capitalist class on his side.

what do you think fascism is exactly, a thing that happens when people don't vote smartfully enough? no, it's the extremest form of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie where the mask comes off but for real

the way they treat immigrants and socialist resistors in the countries they do coups in is a microcosm of what they will do if the people try to stand up for themselves here

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2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Rhimlo provides the counter to the Hitler nonsense, and I wasn’t aware that the French had a representative democracy prior to the revolution. 
Voting absolutely changes things, to think otherwise is lunacy. 

we all know what we want and need, food water shelter medical care education, so why isn't it here yet if we can just vote for it?

"oh the dumb proles aren't smart enough to figure out which representative to vote for or run their own representatives! gotcha!" ]

bourgeois electoralist reactionary nonsense

the answer is because we CAN'T just vote for it.  the only time voting for it works is if there is a legitimate threat of socialism in which case they may give concessions, but we don't want fucking concessions we want EVERYTHING

WE SHOULD DEMAND FUCKING EVERYTHING

Edited by cyanobacteria
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2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Rhimlo provides the counter to the Hitler nonsense, and I wasn’t aware that the French had a representative democracy prior to the revolution. 
Voting absolutely changes things, to think otherwise is lunacy. 

sarcasm

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On 6/8/2020 at 1:56 AM, Gocab said:

Look at the bright side, Zeff isn't a 5G antivaxxer chemtrail lunatic. Just imagine.

Yet...

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1 hour ago, cyanobacteria said:

we all know what we want and need, food water shelter medical care education, so why isn't it here yet if we can just vote for it?

"oh the dumb proles aren't smart enough to figure out which representative to vote for or run their own representatives! gotcha!" ]

bourgeois electoralist reactionary nonsense

the answer is because we CAN'T just vote for it.  the only time voting for it works is if there is a legitimate threat of socialism in which case they may give concessions, but we don't want fucking concessions we want EVERYTHING

WE SHOULD DEMAND FUCKING EVERYTHING

I don’t think it’s that they’re too dumb, but for whatever reason, you (Americans in general) simply don’t participate in local elections/politics. It’s mind boggling to me.

Beyond elections, when was the last time you wrote to your  city councillor with a well written proposal (Which means more than just yelling various talking points) or question about policies?

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1 hour ago, milkface said:

sarcasm

Guess which revolution brought about the biggest change (away from authoritarianism/fascism) in human history? Here’s a hint - Ben Kingsley won an academy award for portraying the leader in a movie. 

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2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

I don’t think it’s that they’re too dumb, but for whatever reason, you (Americans in general) simply don’t participate in local elections/politics. It’s mind boggling to me.

Beyond elections, when was the last time you wrote to your  city councillor with a well written proposal (Which means more than just yelling various talking points) or question about policies?

haha holy shit

unless the letter comes with $50k in campaign contributions alongside it this will not do shit

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2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Yet...

conspiracy theories of online idiots such as these are often used to discredit people who say things other people don't say as much in a given group and you're repeating the psyop yourself now.  nothing I've said indicates that I'm an antivaxxer or chemtrail believer, though I am wholly opposed to 5G and you should be too.  you're being completely reactionary

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