Max 4 Live & Reaktor MIDI trickery

[awepittance]

 

 

For the past 6 months or so i've become obsessed with getting the most out of my hardware synths and units by using Reaktor as a 'front end', recreating things like the Polyevolver interface inside reaktor and sending it 50+ cc's at the same time. This lets me create random patches, automate every parameter at once with things like LFO's or random sine waves. Right now i feel like i've hit a wall of sorts in terms of Reaktor's sequencing abilities. There are so many cool sequencers for reaktor like Spiral, Monoliner, Seq16, but i feel they have severe limitations. I'd love to find more just straight sequencers (not sound generators) in reaktor but the focus seems to be mostly on generating sound.

 

This thread will be for people to recommend or talk about MIDI or control-data exclusive types of patches either for Reaktor or Max4Live. I think the two share a commonality in that they are fully integrated with a DAW host. So far i haven't delved much into Max4Live for purely it's sequencing or automation abilities, what are some of the most useful and or interesting midi effects/sequencers/automators for Max4Live?

 

i found a fun Max4Live patch that essentially lets you randomize any Live instrument/effect/plugin

http://www.maxforliv...vice.php?id=166

only drawback is you cant limit the randomization or take away parameters to be randomized (like wet/dry or amplitude) but it's an interesting tool for sure. Is there anything that can send Lfos to every parameter? I know with enough dedication i can build this stuff myself but i'm too lazy, i know there is a lot of cool stuff out there i havent tried yet.

 

if any Reaktor users here are interested in trying out my Monomachine, Polyevolver and other Reaktor gear/hardware front ends just ask (see below)

 

edit: most frustrating thing about the whole CC front end concept is that most data is done over Sysex only, and to take a sysex editor takes a lot of patience and dedication in comparison to what i did.

 

 

 

so to reiterate in case i've lost anybody...

 

- post links to max4live and reaktor patches you think do interesting or useful things with control data, midi or automation

 

in case anybody is unaware, anybody can link/view to patches in the Reaktor user library just cant download them unless you are registered

[Guest ryanmcallister]

good thread, i too am hoping many contributions are made here.

 

personally i've always thought of Reaktor as being better at the sound generating/processing stuff while max/max4live is better for control data. when you get a solid grasp on each they compliment each other beautifully (especially with Live in the middle of it all).

 

not much I can add on the Reaktor side of things, I dug out spiral again recently and have been loving that, but I can't seem to get the damn thing slow enough. I want to use it for generative ambient stuff but found you have to crank your host tempo way down to work with the default sync rates it provides. i took a quick look into the structure but was quite intimidated by NI's programming prowess, might have to give it another shot though when I'm more in that head space.

 

as for max4live, one thing i can say in complete confidence is if you have the most recent version of max4live (or anything post-early 2011ish) you should have a folder labeled "tools -> API". in there you'll find a bunch of goodies that take advantage of that live.path stuff, meaning you can route to pretty much any parameter in your live set. there's LFO's, Envelope Followers, XY controllers, step sequencers, sends panners, and other FSU type stuff. there's one in particular i've been having fun with is called the Device Decimator which allows you to select a certain device and takes control over every single parameter, modulating them all randomly at whatever rate you choose. this is a really cool way to come up with random patches like you were mentioning. i like the API tools because they are simple, standardized building blocks that can be pieced together in really cool ways for quite interesting results. i'm not sure how this would translate over to hardware though, perhaps you could use max4live to build a virtual panel for each of your instruments and then hook the api tools up to them...

 

this is a topic i should really know more about by now, but i just can't seem to get into downloading user made patches and shit that is usually undocumented, unstable, blah blah blah. i dunno. most of the cool stuff i see out there i imagine myself building a more personalized version and just never get around to it.

 

that being said i have a midi device I built that takes advantage of the live.path modulation technique. every time it receives a midi note on message it spits out a random value within a specified range to whatever it's hooked up to. essentially it's a "trigger random" type thing you'd see on a synth but it can be applied to anything in your set. fun for those random deviations that keep music organic. i'll can upload the most current version (2.0) to my ftp if anybody wants, it's been massively streamlined, but if you want to check out a previous version it's HERE. the 2.0 basically just routes to a single destination, but is smaller and slightly more efficient so it makes it easier to just load up 30 of em and have them all do different things, rather than the original which was a single random value routed to up to 4 different possible destinations.

[Guest RadarJammer]

Node http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&L=1&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=10627

Its a bit more fiddly than spiral but quite fun.

 

Automata http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=10401

It boggles my mind that this was even possible for someone to build in Reaktor, truly special.

Automata has a behavior where if you stop the hosts transport it doesn't reset the sequence but if you connect an ic send to the gate output of the start/stop module and connect the ic send to a switch that's not connected to anything (because the switch going off causes global init event) it will set all the nodes to their starting positions.

 

If anyone wants something from the UL pm me.

[Guest ryanmcallister]

oh ya i forgot, love this:

 

 

http://twistedtools.com/shop/reaktor/colorflex/

[awepittance]

thanks guys! i had a feeling besides a few other people here you guys would deliver. Going to try these out Asap.

 

have you guys played around with Akkord much? I can't get it to stop doing a weird midi feedback loop thing where even if i delete my chords, they still play and just keep stacking on top. The instrument 'akkord' has another instrument contained in side of it that seems responsible for the routing, i have to go to that one (about 3 layers deep) and assign it a midi out. Otherwise i cant get it to send signal, any idea what i'm doing wrong?

 

do either of you guys use Max4live? is there anything close to this level of sequencing power in max4live? and yeah i know the piano roll works great, im just not interested in discussing why i should be using it in this thread

[awepittance]

good thread, i too am hoping many contributions are made here.

 

personally i've always thought of Reaktor as being better at the sound generating/processing stuff while max/max4live is better for control data. when you get a solid grasp on each they compliment each other beautifully (especially with Live in the middle of it all).

 

not much I can add on the Reaktor side of things, I dug out spiral again recently and have been loving that, but I can't seem to get the damn thing slow enough. I want to use it for generative ambient stuff but found you have to crank your host tempo way down to work with the default sync rates it provides.

and sorry if this is something obvious you already tried, but did you actually double click on the 'sync clock' module? from wihtin the function settings you can change the ratio so that it goes slower. Its most likely set at the highest speed. It simply divides the clock by 2 the lower the setting you go. You have to keep the same ratio though or else the clock will stop completely.

for any sequencer that doesn't go slow enough this fix always works

[Guest RadarJammer]

For chord memory I prefer the groovy piz vst http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=midiChords which can be used nicely alongside a mono sequencer like http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=7958

I haven't played with Akkord, it probably contains some freaky Lazyfish witchcraft.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to spend a weekend playing with all the m4l sequencers http://maxforlive.com/library/index.php?tag=sequencer there are many, I bet there are some real gems there but I don't use live. I wish puredata had a legit vst version.

[Guest ryanmcallister]

and sorry if this is something obvious you already tried, but did you actually double click on the 'sync clock' module? from wihtin the function settings you can change the ratio so that it goes slower. Its most likely set at the highest speed. It simply divides the clock by 2 the lower the setting you go. You have to keep the same ratio though or else the clock will stop completely.

for any sequencer that doesn't go slow enough this fix always works

i did not, like i said i only took a brief glance at it one day. thanks for the tip though, i'll try that when i get home tonight.

[Guest EleminoP]

Just got a patch working that can control all of my ESX's parameters and stuff from weird max sequencers. Being able to automate sample slices and similar things is awesome. Things get Autechre fast.

[awepittance]

does it utilize sysex? id like to try that one out. Someone told me they got the electribe to act as a full on midi controller using midipipe, im interested in trying that as well.

[awepittance]

hey matt, call me right now if you got some time on my home phone, or facebook me your #

[awepittance]

just found this interesting device, an in between filter to control any reaktor synth with the machinedrum

not sure what makes this easier than just simple midi control but here it is

https://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=5986

[Guest EleminoP]

does it utilize sysex? id like to try that one out. Someone told me they got the electribe to act as a full on midi controller using midipipe, im interested in trying that as well.

Yeah. I have all of the sysex parameters mapped out. Haven't tried to use it as a controller yet.

[awepittance]

i was wondering if anybody in here has a particular piece of hardware kit that they love for how much CC control is available on it out of the box.

 

so far for me the elektron machinedrum and monomachine have proved to be the most powerful for default CC control. It seems like literally every parameter can be manipulated with CC. The polyevolver comes close but not all the parameters (like modulation assignments) are CC controllable.

 

what other gear is made to be this easily tweakable?

 

 

the first thing i do when eyeballing a new piece of gear is look at the MIDI implementation chart. If it seems skint i usually pass on the device unless it has a fully functional software editor.

 

I was surprised by how much the Roland JD-990 impressed me after hooking it into a software editor, i was very underwhelmed by it for a while but now it amazes me.